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Post by raynebc on Sept 23, 2014 1:48:27 GMT -5
When I got home I took their dry food away, played with them for a bit and gave them their dinner (half raw pudding, half wet duck FDR). Reska ate some right off the bat, no prodding needed. She picked up a large piece of chicken skin that didn't get liquified in the blender and after a couple bites, decided to banish it by stashing it away. Copper had a couple licks but wasn't hungry enough yet. A few hours later it was half gone, which was probably his handiwork. I mixed some warm water in the rest of it and Reska polished it off. Copper is probably holding out for some wet FDR, I'll make them some before I go to sleep.
I have another 2-3 portions of raw pudding left before I'm out. I'm not sure if I want to use the rest of the chicken thighs from last week, since they are already past the sell-by date and I'd have to defrost them to make more pudding. I'd probably prefer to get fresher thighs, unless any mentors think they are ready to try different pudding protein like ground beef or pork, perhaps with half chicken thighs. They've handled beef heart OK, so I hope that means beef is one they will tolerate, but I don't think they've eaten any pork yet.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2014 15:26:02 GMT -5
Is the raw soup recipe cited to use skinless chicken just for the sake of convenience then, if not for nutritional or cost reasons? Based on what I've read before, if ferrets eat until they get enough fat in their digestive system, they may possibly be prone to eat less of the soup before feeling "full". Would this cause issues with them not eating enough of the soup to get the needed amounts of heart, liver and calcium in their diet? I can't find where the soupie recipe calls for skinless chicken. The recipe has been written in several threads and talked about, and we usually mention using chicken thighs. This is the Sticky Thread for soupie: holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/145/raw-soupIf the soup is blended, then the chicken, skin, organs and calcium from the eggshell or bonemeal will be blended together and the soup will have everything in it and all mixed up. So, I don't think that you have to worry about Cooper or Reska eating less and feeling full, (without getting the nutrients) too soon.
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Post by raynebc on Sept 23, 2014 17:19:38 GMT -5
The ratio of ingredients is the same, but I was just worried the higher fat content would mean they eat less of it (and thus ingest less heart and liver). Most instances of the recipe don't seem to specify whether or not to keep the skin, but several suggest leaving some or all of it out: holisticferret60.proboards.com/post/227196/threadholisticferret60.proboards.com/post/225914/threadholisticferret60.proboards.com/post/210751/threadholisticferret60.proboards.com/post/202145/threadThat last one was the only one I immediately found that gave a reason, being that it makes it easier to blend. If it's better for them to get the extra fat I'll just need to spend more time cutting the skin up. The chef knife I got is extremely sharp, but it still was a fair amount of work to cut the skin into small pieces, I probably just need more practice. They ate most of the turkey/rabbit FDR I left for them overnight, but they left several of the chunks of rabbit. They both of them seem to be avoiding even small chunks for the most part. After they get more comfortable with it I'll try small pieces of chicken in the pudding and work up to larger pieces. Would smashed up chicken wings be a good starter bone when I get to that point?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2014 17:33:31 GMT -5
Smashed chicken wings are very good. Quail is the smallest bone. A six pack runs about $9. Cornish game hens are also very good. Any one of those will be a good starter bone. You know Cooper and Reska best, which do you think they will be better off with? The tiniest bones or the familiar chicken flavor?
I started with chicken wings, only because it took me awhile to find Quail. All of mine like Chicken, Quail and Cornish game hens. So, those are my primary Bone In meals.
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Post by raynebc on Sept 23, 2014 18:23:09 GMT -5
They're probably the most familiar with chicken, I'll just have to find out when I get there.
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Post by raynebc on Sept 24, 2014 13:44:12 GMT -5
They ate their entire portion of raw pudding last night. Reska is really starting to like it, she also chomped on one of the moderate sized skin pieces that didn't blend up instead of trying to drop it off somewhere else. Even Copper ate a teaspoon or more of it in my presence where normally he would only eat a couple bites of it when I offered it to him from the spoon. I gave them wet FDR (turkey Stella's and chicken Archetype) overnight and they ate pretty much all of it. This was my first time re-hydrating the chicken Archetype, I had forgotten how soft and crumbly it is, especially compared to the rabbit Archetype.
I should have enough raw pudding left for a couple more portions, so I'll get more chicken thighs on the way home from work on Friday.
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Post by raynebc on Sept 25, 2014 1:24:39 GMT -5
They ate all of their raw pudding up again tonight, although Reska still seems to be eating most of it. At this rate she may catch up to Copper in size. I haven't gotten around to weighing them yet, but she started out pretty small and she definitely looks like she's gaining a healthy amount of weight. In tonight's pudding portion I found a pinky fingernail sized piece of chicken bone that escaped earlier detection. I decided to leave it in to see what they thought about it. When Reska had finished up almost the last of the pudding she picked up the piece of bone and chewed on it for several seconds before trying to run away with it, but I stopped her and threw the bone piece away.
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Post by raynebc on Sept 26, 2014 0:50:22 GMT -5
Instead of mixing FDR into their chicken pudding I tried giving it to them straight up, but they didn't eat any of it after a few hours had passed. It was starting to smell, so the pudding batch may have just been going bad. Next time I need to portion it in smaller amounts so I can keep each one frozen until day of. Getting chicken further away from the expiration date will probably help as well.
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Post by raynebc on Sept 27, 2014 0:59:42 GMT -5
I made my second ever batch of raw chicken pudding. It certainly went easier this time. I cut up a package of chicken thighs into 3 8oz portions and put them into the deli containers, which is extremely convenient because they hold 8oz of meat perfectly, and put them in the freezer.
Then after cleanup I took out a heart/liver portion (1oz of each) out of the freezer, tossed it in the blender with a little water and made an organ puree. Then tossed in one portion of chicken thigh I had just made, added 1/2 tsp of bone meal and blended it up. I had taken care to cut the skin up into really small pieces and it seemed to blend better than my first try. I didn't even cause the blender to smoke this time, although a couple bits of skin had wrapped around on the blades by the time I was done.
It still took me a couple hours to clean, portion, prep and store everything, but I think it went much better than last time. Pre-portioning the ingredients makes it so much easier, and the next two batches will be as simple as grabbing one deli container each of chicken thigh and heart/liver, putting in the fridge for a day to thaw and then blending it with bone meal. One batch makes several (around 6-8) small portions, each of which I can make into a full meal by mixing in some wet FDR to make it more acceptable to the ferrets. Mixing it also allows me to warm it up a little bit, which I think the ferrets prefer. They probably thought I was taking too long to give them their dinner, but they practically emptied the pudding/FDR plate in short order. Mostly they left a couple small pieces of chicken skin that didn't get liquified.
Edit: The last of the pudding vanished. It's too early to know for sure that they didn't just stash it, but I think there's a good chance they were hungry for more and ate it. I'll leave another portion of pudding/FDR overnight. This is going to be another all-raw weekend for them. I'm also getting around to washing all of their bedding, which was overdue. Neither of them have full-on grapetail, but Reska's tail does smell faintly sweet, so it's another sign their improved diet is kicking in. I think when they've leveled out their eating, Reska may be about as large as Copper is, which isn't something I was expecting, but I would welcome it.
Edit 2: About 4-5 hours after I gave them the first serving of pudding/FDR they'd eaten it all so I gave them another serving. Copper finished off the last of that by now so I made them another serving. It hadn't finished defrosting so I sat the container in warm water just as long as it needed to make it soft enough to chop with a spoon. It was a little cold when I gave it to them but Reska started gulping it down as soon as it was in their pen. If they keep this up I'm going to have to make another batch of soup very soon.
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Post by raynebc on Sept 28, 2014 6:34:10 GMT -5
So far they've had the pudding/FDR mix all weekend as their only food and they're both wolfing it down. I can try using less FDR, Reska doesn't even seem to mind if it's chilled so it's probably not needed anymore for me to use FDR mixed with hot water to warm it up to room temperature before offering it. I set out another pudding/FDR portion for their overnight food and after that I only have enough pudding for one more portion and then the batch I made Friday night will be gone. I'm going to have to make another batch but that will be fast since I already have the ingredients portioned. I haven't been measuring the amount of food they eat, but assuming that I've been mixing at least 1 part FDR to 2 parts pudding, the 10oz. batch of pudding will have been consumed in less than 48 hours. This averages out as them each eating 3.75oz per day which seems like a good amount based on what I've read on the forum. I've seen them each inhale the stuff so I know they're both eating it with little or no hesitation. It's nice to see them barely having to drink any water (even though I wash their water dish and refill twice a day) and they definitely make a lot less poop.
They also don't seem to mind the occasional bits that didn't blend up. Reska took a piece earlier and ran it a few paces from the dish, set it down and then picked it back up and ate it. Once they're eating the raw pudding with no FDR mixed in I can try adding some small chunks.
Is it better to introduce them to smashed bone before small pieces of gizzard? I'm sure they'd enjoy getting something to chew on again, since the pudding isn't crunchy, but having some chunks of thigh/skin would give them something to chomp. I don't think either of them miss their kibble at this point, they clean their pudding plate every time, several times per day. I could keep the kibble in storage in case I run out of meat ingredients, but I still have plenty of FDR. The only brand of their kibble that has a unique value is probably the Epigen, since it has a variety of probiotics in it. It may be good to use to mix into soup if they get sick and have to take antibiotics, as it will help replenish their gut flora and I'd feel less weird about using that than dairy products or fruits/veggies.
If I can keep enough ingredients made up I can probably now work toward keeping them on raw food 24x7. Even after I use up the portions of heart/liver I stuck in the freezer, I have the rest of the beef heart, probably enough for another one or two dozen 1oz portions. I will probably throw the container of chicken livers out. I didn't freeze it because it seemed like it would be too messy to be worthwhile since it's abundantly easy for me to find at pretty much any grocery store I go to and it only costs a few dollars. If I had to buy more chicken liver each time I make up another bunch of heart/liver portions I won't be breaking the bank.
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Post by raynebc on Sept 28, 2014 22:21:52 GMT -5
I made a new raw pudding batch. Everything was already portioned, so it was easy to just blend it up and wash things down. I should have enough raw food for the next couple days, and enough portioned ingredients in the freezer to make another batch. Including that, I should be enough to make it until the weekend but will then have to buy and portion more chicken thighs.
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Post by Thérèse on Sept 29, 2014 6:41:37 GMT -5
Gizzard or bone? I wopuld try whichever I thought my ferrets would personally take to easiest
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Post by raynebc on Sept 29, 2014 13:03:21 GMT -5
I'm not sure, I'd probably have to just try either one and see. I'm probably leaning toward gizzards because based on threads I've read on the forum, ferrets often have to strengthen their jaws before they're ready to chew bone. Should I just buy a package of gizzards, cut some up into small pieces and mix with their raw pudding?
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Post by raynebc on Oct 1, 2014 1:37:19 GMT -5
I used up the last of my portioned chicken thigh to make another soup batch. That should last a couple days. I'll have to decide whether to try to switch them to two feedings per day. The plate stays populated for longer, so they might be getting their fill quicker now that they've been off kibble since Friday evening. I can usually get one of them to eat pudding that's been out long enough to start getting dry by mixing it with warm water before going to give them their next portion, but I'd rather them eat it within 6 hours or so instead of trying to stretch it to 8 or 9.
There were a couple seedy poops this evening, but they seemed fine and played well so maybe their diet is just extra rich in fat lately. I also gave them some salmon oil since they hadn't had any in a few days, and that might have contributed. Since they've just been having the duck Stella and Chewy's mixed with their chicken pudding since they first started it, I switched the FDR to quail Archetype. They seemed hesitant at first, but I saw Reska eat some. I'm sure Copper will come around when he's hungry.
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Post by raynebc on Oct 1, 2014 13:14:09 GMT -5
They ate all but a couple bites of the pudding/FDR mix I left overnight, so it looks like they re-discovered that quail is food. I left them a nice, big portion this morning and I'll see how it looks when I get home. If I go to a two meal per day schedule for them it would probably be at 8AM and 8PM, unless some more experienced ferrents think it's better time them differently.
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