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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2014 13:33:43 GMT -5
I am glad that the kits are doing so well. What about Oscar? If you can, post a menu of what they have been eating. Just so it is documented and I can assure that it is balanced.
Now to Ollie... BRAT! lol The mentors are pretty much telling me that we should start him at the beginning again with soup. I did let them know about him doing GREAT for a few weeks and then refusing to eat for days on end. The main thing they mentioned there was to make sure the kibble is out of SMELL range too. Maybe that is triggering him refusal to eat because he KNOWS there's kibble somewhere. I think they are stumped a bit too haha SO, when your ready, make up a big batch of soupy and freeze it into meals and we will go from there. Here is the recipe for reference:
8oz chicken (boneless, skinless) 1 chicken liver 1-2 chicken hearts or 1oz other heart 1/4-1/2 tsp crushed egg shell or bone meal
You can substitute with other animals if you don't have chicken, but the chicken is the best for starting with because of taste issues.
I know you are trying and what you did with the mouse is exactly right, especially since he KNOWS raw is food. It is frustrating because the soup is to make them realize it's food, really he is way past that. But it's really the only thing we haven't tried, just treating him like a newby 100%
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2014 19:05:16 GMT -5
Ok I already have some soup made up in freezer so will start that, I did give him one he would only eat it off spoon then after that he wouldn't touch it again!! Oscar eat it in the end as Ollie refused and I couldn't sit there any longer. The kibble was well out of smell before it was kept in shed so I know he couldn't smell it lol! He's just strange!
To to be honest I can't see Ollie ever eating raw, let alone whole prey. He thinks its disgusting, you can see it on his face when he's carefully licking the oil off, he curls his lip and is so careful not to actually get any mouse bits! If he does he shakes his head and runs off!
Oscar will eat mice, ground turkey necks, duck wings, hearts, whole prey beef mince, lamb mince ( I had some left over from raw to go ) he wasn't sure about rat it was still there in AM, I haven't tried him with quail etc as at the moment making sure kits get a balanced diet as there growing, once get my orders so I have more in than what the kits are eating, ( as they don't get kibble, ) I will try Oscar with the new things. He does eat kibble as well as raw as its in there for Ollie, but I know he wouldn't miss it.
I did put a half eaten quail that the kits left in for Oscar, he stashed it, I'm not sure if he knows its food as it's got feathers he's not seen anything with feathers only fur haha!
This is what the kits have currently been eating. Oscar has been having some of this along side kibble because I can't stop him eating it in between as it's there. I have just ordered rabbit, pigeon, quail which will arrive tomorrow
Mon am rat Mon pm hamster
Tues am rat Tues PM quail
Wed am chicken neck/duck wing/ground turkey neck Wed pm quail
Thur am mouse Thur pm rat
Fri am hamster Fri pm rat
Sat am mouse Sat pm quail
Sun am hamster Sun pm beef cheek/beef chunks/lamb shoulder/ gizzard if find some, with hearts- rotate each week
One thing I wanted to check is how long can whole prey be left was it 24hours ? Also would one small rabbit be enough for the two kits, as there tiny still ? The rats are nearly as big as them so I don't think they will get through a rabbit each to be honest and so one would be wasted.
This is the menu, once I get new order tomorrow, they will also get mice and occasional chicks in between to keep them going and so there's always something to eat whilst there little.
They also get a egg once a week as a treat during the day
Is this ok ?
New menu
Mon am chicken neck/duck wing/ ground turkey neck - rotate each week Mon pm hamster
Tues am rat Tues PM rabbit
Wed am hamster Wed pm pigeon
Thur am rat Thur pm quail
Fri am hamster Fri pm pigeon
Sat am rabbit Sat pm quail
Sun am beef cheek/beef chunks/lamb shoulder/ gizzard if find some, with hearts- rotate each week Sun PM heart
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2014 23:31:15 GMT -5
Both menus look really good. I am glad oscar is eating some raw still. With the feathered things, you might try cutting them up a bit. In he can see/smell the meat he may go for it better. You said it was partially eaten so maybe meat was exposed. If so just cut it up smaller and increase size as he eats it.
I would think one rabbit is enough for the kits! But you never know, tummies with teeth and all haha maybe have a chick handy in case they finish it. Whole pray that way can actually be left for up to 48 hours. The skin and whatnot actually protects it from going bad as fast.
Ollie is an odd one. See if you can get him eating soup at any kind of regularity and we can go from there. Glad the others are doing well
How confident do you feel with your current menu? I know we are still working with Ollie, but with the others, do you feel more like you know what your doing??
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2014 6:07:25 GMT -5
Yes with the others and the whole prey I am happy and think I understand it much better, whole prey is much easier to understand so Yes I think I know what I'm doing now (dance) If Ollie was eating whole prey I would be pretty much sorted, it's jetting him to join the other 3 . He got in with kits this AM whilst I was cleaning, he managed to climb over a stable door!! He wasn't to bad with them he was one one of there backs and the kits was moaning I shouted at Ollie and he jumped off lol! He shouldn't have been in there so I think I panicked when I saw him with them haha!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2014 12:09:54 GMT -5
I am glad you feel more confident about everything! Your menus look really good, very balanced and lots of different proteins! Perfect!
Now to work on Ollie... haha
I am glad that he was, dare I say, better with the kits. That's funny that he jumped when you caught him. Like a guilty child!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2014 16:15:01 GMT -5
Yes he shot straight off them haha! I still don't know how he managed to get in there haha! I am going to make a mouse soup, so chop a mouse in tiny bits and mix it into the soup, is this a good plan ? One thing I wanted to ask is when feeding whole prey say for example one rabbit between so many ferrets, how do you make sure they all get some liver/organ ? I know I can chop it up a mix together as someone else does this, but then there not really getting the experience or working at it for themselves if you know what I mean ? Or does it kind of work out at the end of the week ? I cut the pigeon down the middle just to give the kits a hand, I'm hoping I won't have to do this when there older, although I might as I found loads of sweetcorn inside, which I removed, so I will need to do this each time with the pigeon. Seems sad when you find food in them, hard to explain why but it does lol! Oscar really wanted to go in with kits as he could smell there pigeon poor Oscar he didn't get one as there really expensive so if he doesn't eat it it's a waste, so what I do for the moment is I put what's left from the kits in as it's already opened, and chewed on but there's always a tiny amount of meat left on it, which might get him interested and realise its food. This is my plan for the moment once Oscar is eating it I will leave it in for the kits to finish the last bits off and Oscar will get a whole one and maybe, just maybe Ollie will see Oscar eating it and join in................ Wishful thinking haha! I'm really pleased the menu is good, thank you for your patience and explaining things over and over, haha I know I kept asking the same questions, you have been brilliant in helping me to understand what's required for a balanced menu
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2014 17:27:01 GMT -5
One other thing I want to check with you is regarding the rabbit, if I was to chop it up and mix it together and then Feed it in portions, so to spread it over so many meals a week, would this be ok or would it mess up the balance ? Or would it all balance out at the end of the week or so ?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2014 12:12:50 GMT -5
I am going to make a mouse soup, so chop a mouse in tiny bits and mix it into the soup, is this a good plan ?
I don't see why any type of soup would be ok, you want him to get used to the taste and that might be a good way to 'mask' it a bit until he is eating it better and then increase size of mouse.
One thing I wanted to ask is when feeding whole prey say for example one rabbit between so many ferrets, how do you make sure they all get some liver/organ ? I know I can chop it up a mix together as someone else does this, but then there not really getting the experience or working at it for themselves if you know what I mean ? Or does it kind of work out at the end of the week ?
So the easy answer here is it works it way out by the end of the week. Unfortunately there is really no way (with exception of feeding and housing separately, how sad would that be!) to truly make sure everyone is getting what they need. There will be times that one fert is really liking hearts and will go for that first leaving the others with less. But then when you feed smaller animals they will get the whole thing (in theory) and will make up for what they lost on that other meal. It is never 100% perfect, but don't worry, it would take a long time of them not getting any of something to cause a deficiency. Some believe that ferts are like a prego women craving different things. They say these cravings of weird items comes from your body trying to tell you you need more of whatever nutrient that pickle and ice cream gives. So when one is in need of something, they will crave it and hopefully get it if it's being offered. Where you see deficiencies is when something is not being offered at all.
I cut the pigeon down the middle just to give the kits a hand, I'm hoping I won't have to do this when there older, although I might as I found loads of sweetcorn inside, which I removed, so I will need to do this each time with the pigeon. Seems sad when you find food in them, hard to explain why but it does lol!
That is really sad! Poor Pigeons... I actually quite like Pigeons. My family hates them, calls them rats with wings, but I think they are interesting. Haha I got cow lungs and a heart, from a butcher once that had pieces of feed in some of the lung ducts. One, it was gross and I had to toss a part of the lungs that I just couldn't get off, but also it was sad. Made me think of a last meal with the poor thing. What we do to feed our fur kids. I guess it is the natural cycle and all... I am getting two cow heads from the butcher tonight, I am curious to how it will show up, but I am excited to feed brains!!
Oscar really wanted to go in with kits as he could smell there pigeon poor Oscar he didn't get one as there really expensive so if he doesn't eat it it's a waste, so what I do for the moment is I put what's left from the kits in as it's already opened, and chewed on but there's always a tiny amount of meat left on it, which might get him interested and realize its food. This is my plan for the moment once Oscar is eating it I will leave it in for the kits to finish the last bits off and Oscar will get a whole one and maybe, just maybe Ollie will see Oscar eating it and join in................ Wishful thinking haha!
Haha possibly wishful thinking. Sometimes that will trigger the 'it's food' thought. I am glad Oscar is wanting all the new stuff too. And it is not a bad thing to switch off who gets what. How much longer are planning on keeping them separate?
I'm really pleased the menu is good, thank you for your patience and explaining things over and over, haha I know I kept asking the same questions, you have been brilliant in helping me to understand what's required for a balanced menu
It's no problem at all! I am glad I can 'pay it forward' with what I was taught. Also, it is a great learning experience for me to learn about all these minces!
One other thing I want to check with you is regarding the rabbit, if I was to chop it up and mix it together and then Feed it in portions, so to spread it over so many meals a week, would this be ok or would it mess up the balance ? Or would it all balance out at the end of the week or so ?
As I answered above, it will all work it out over the week. Don't forget though that whole meals like that (depending on the size and what not) can last up to 48 hours, so if you think they will eat it that quick don't bother cutting it up too much. Maybe half or quarter it?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2014 15:50:19 GMT -5
Ok that's great, I will try half a rabbit and see how they get on first I would have put them all together now, but Ollie still not great with kits, he dragged one half way round the garden so he is still to rough for them to go in with him, Ollie's is a right pain haha! Oscars lives them! I have called the kits Chad and Casper I fed Ollie soup with mouse chopped up into tiny pieces, he ate some so will keep doing this. Also the kits will eat kibble as they found some on floor, so if Ollie doesn't switch I'm a bit stuck as I can't have them in there with kibble I have some news, I found a female ferret, she's skin and bone, and has had kits at some point as she's got noticeable teets , all she does is sleep, I can't keep her long term, I have tried to get her to eat and it looks like she was fed whole prey but not very well. She won't eat kibble which is a problem as she might have to go to a rescue and they will want her eating kibble, they can't feed whole prey it's to expensive as they have lots to feed. I'm not sure she will make it through the night, the vet thinks she's about 1 year old. I tried giving her soup she had a little and she did eat a little mince, but she hardly eats The kits are doing really well the loved the pigeon but didn't eat it all, they got quail tonight I have chopped it up abit as they do struggle with the big birds, my mums doesn't but she's got the three kits to work at it lol!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2014 17:45:43 GMT -5
I love the kits names! I have always like the name Casper. I hope Onry Ollie starts to get along with them, but like you said, if they will eat the kibble it might be a journey to get them together anyhow. That poor girl! Do you have rescue remedy in your area? That would be my first thought. Post something in the general population and see what other have to say. They might have more insight. I would certainly just try to keep her warm and eating every hour or so as much as you can. Where did you find her??
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2014 18:29:50 GMT -5
It took me a while with the names, Chad was easy it was the other one I struggled to name, but yes Casper's nice! It suits him too I am concerned about the kibble being in there, I'm not sure how it's going to all work out but will take each day as it comes, Ollie is the sweetest ferret he will lay on his back in your arms and asked to be pick up often, but he's the most frustrating ferret I have ever had hahaha! Bless him! The female ferret wandered into my mums garden today, my mum can't look after her so I got her for now, we don't know where she's come from but also whoever had her hasn't cared for her very well at all, she hasn't been out long because she wasn't overly thirsty and she has pooped several times but she is just skin and bone, she looks terrible and just sleeps all the time, so she's not right for a young ferret. Plus she has recently had kits so maybe they took it out of her We have ferret rescues but there all bursting and can't take any in, the rspca will just put her to sleep so I can't call them, she deserves a chance to see if she can get well. She is so friendly, she's a silver. I don't really know much about female ferrets as the ones I have had all been neutered. She's had kits so hasn't been done, so she will come into season again I think but I don't know when. She's to unwell to be neutered but can't be left in season so will need Jill jab maybe, I don't know . I'm going to ring a place in the AM that take and care for all animals and see if they have room, if not then I don't know , will have to post on Facebook ferret groups and see if anyone near me can offer her a living home. I will post picture of her so you can see how tiny and thin she is, I can feel her back bone and all her ribs, poor little thing. She's in my bedroom in a box for the night
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2014 18:51:27 GMT -5
She just ate well (dance) I had to hand feed but this time she ate lots more and has perked up
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2014 19:16:01 GMT -5
Forgot to say Oscar tends to only eat the heads of mice. Also when I feed him at night I have to give Ollie one too, as he looks for something, he will snatch the mouse and run off and stash it, with oscars chasing him lol! As he does this shows he's interested doesn't it ?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2014 22:16:36 GMT -5
She does look tiny. Poor mama. It may be that she just had kits. I don't know myself much about it, but watching heathers jills they were thin and lost a hit of hair and WERE well taken care of. Do you know how to tell if she's dehydrated? You basically just pinch the skin and if it stays tented then she's dehydrated if it bounces back then she's ok.
Find me on Facebook and I can try to help you there too. Facebook.com/ACunningham22
And yes, the fact Ollie steals mice from his brother is a good sign!!! Mine always eat the head first too and the tail. When I don't give then something different they go ahead and finish most of the test, but not all.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2014 6:18:07 GMT -5
Yes I checked yesterday before taking her to the vets and she is dehydrates, the vets didn't do anything for her as they know I can't keep her so basically they wanted to ship her off to the rspca, who WILL put her to sleep. All the ferret rescues are full, so it looks like I may have to look after her, but I know nothing about Jill's and what's needed after having kits etc. Also she only eats raw food but really I can't afford another one to feed raw so she may have to eat some kibble so part raw, as really the main part is to get her build up as soon as possible. I don't know if there's anything going on with her as she just sleeps a lot, and is very quite. It's hard because I am not really able to take on another ferret at this time, she will need spaying and this is 85 pounds, I already got the kits that will need doing, plus need to get them out of my shed and in with Ollie/Oscar, so it's not the best time for me to take on another, but I couldn't leave her out there alone. Whoever owned her hasn't posted anywhere at the moment so not sure I will ever find her owners, but also vets said she was suffering malnutrition so not sure the owners cared for her well ? Unless this happens to all Jill's after babies, but surely they get extra when caring kits and boost vit injections or extra put in there food ? Again I know nothing about it either so maybe this is normal like you say heathers Jill's got thin etc and there well cared for. She has drank a lot so hoping this helps her. She is eating much better now. I need to get her eating kibble because if I do find a rescue they won't and can't provide her raw. I found you on Facebook, do I add you as a friend ? The kits had rabbit today they lived it, Ollie/ Oscar had chicken and Ollie ate this, he likes chicken lol! This ferret turning up has thrown me abit so I didn't have enough raw out for all mine, this is why Oscar/Ollie had to have the chicken today. I will get sorted today
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