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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2014 13:05:04 GMT -5
Also, I think your treats are fine! Based of what they gave you, it doesn't make me think there's anything weird in it!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2014 15:04:10 GMT -5
The beef and heart and chicken and liver only contains beef meat, bone and heart and the chicken and liver only contains chicken meat, bone and liver. All the other minces contain meat, bone and liver , kidney, heart , spleen according to the supplier.
So with the beef and heart and the chicken and liver mince, they won't be getting any other organs apart from the liver or the heart, so feeding these as a meal on there own they will be missing the other organs ? This added with chicken wings as a meal on its own would also be another meal they miss there organs isn't this two many meals without the organs ? This is were I'm struggling to understand as surly this knocks the balance right off ? So yep I'm still confused, sorry :-( ( also I'm only feeding one meal a day )
I put a mice in each but they have touched them, I put them in this am as a treat.
This am there was a lot off mince left stashed everywhere they didn't have any kibble over night as I removed it, so I'm a bit worried as to what they actually ate, saying that they didn't go crazy for the kibble when I put it back in.
Ollie does look skinny compared to Oscar but he has loads more engery than Oscar so he must be ok ?
I bought two chicken wings today to try them, the butcher had two left over he chopped them up a bit, I did smash them with a hammer when I got home into small bits but it's left sharp bits if bone but this should be ok for ferrets shouldn't it as they bite the bones and they can become sharp.
Tonight I am giving them beef and heart and have thrown in the bits of chicken wings to see what happens.
Once I get my order I will stick to a menu but at the moment I am using up what's left in freezer .
There stools are ok I think, I will post pic tomorrow though.
I haven't managed to get pictures of them today as been out, so will get pics tomorrow of them too.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2014 16:04:34 GMT -5
I'm not sure Ollie is eating any meats, if this is the case tonight will be the second night he goes without food, I'm getting a little worried, if there's loads of meat left tomorrow then I'm not sure what to do
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2014 16:27:59 GMT -5
The beef and heart and chicken and liver only contains beef meat, bone and heart and the chicken and liver only contains chicken meat, bone and liver. All the other minces contain meat, bone and liver , kidney, heart , spleen according to the supplier. So with the beef and heart and the chicken and liver mince, they won't be getting any other organs apart from the liver or the heart, so feeding these as a meal on there own they will be missing the other organs ? This added with chicken wings as a meal on its own would also be another meal they miss there organs isn't this two many meals without the organs ? This is were I'm struggling to understand as surly this knocks the balance right off ? So yep I'm still confused, sorry :-( ( also I'm only feeding one meal a day )
Don't be sorry! And I am just like you and was obsessed with the numbers at first. You just have to reasure yourself that wild ferrets eat what they can get, so sometimes they might have more organ & heart than other times. Also organ/heart size varies from animal to animal so even if they eat one mouse per meal, they may be getting different amounts of organ and heart from each mouse. I was given this example that I thought was good: I just got some freshly killed turkey parts, from 2 full-grown turkeys roughly the same size. One of the hearts is about the size of a ping-pong ball, the other is larger than a tennis ball. So if a ferret were going to eat those turkeys, he wouldn't eat just a part of that large heart and then sit back and say 'ok, that's enough heart for this week'.
So to answer your question, yes they are getting more heart and a bit more liver than the recommended EXACT %, but without totally switching to a frankenpray diet where you can measure out the daily proportions or feeding whole everyday, it is never going to be exact. And that's ok! I think you feed enough mince (that has all the good stuff) and whole that they are balancing out in the end.
I put a mice in each but they have touched them, I put them in this am as a treat.
If they don't eat them you can cut open the belly or somewhere to make them realize it's food or do a play of tug of war and the 'stimulation' might get them interested in it. They may just be waiting (or full) on kibble.
This am there was a lot off mince left stashed everywhere they didn't have any kibble over night as I removed it, so I'm a bit worried as to what they actually ate, saying that they didn't go crazy for the kibble when I put it back in.
Mine go through stages where I feel like they don't eat much. I will even put in some of their favorites and still nothing. As long as their active, not too thin, and poops are ok then no worries.
Ollie does look skinny compared to Oscar but he has loads more engery than Oscar so he must be ok ?
There are certainly different body types with ferrets. I have 3 and I think I have one of each. My tiny girl is also always on the thin side, but she is the craziest little thing! I still would feel better seeing a hanging pic or one from the top. Especially if you think she is a bit thin, lets make sure :0)
I bought two chicken wings today to try them, the butcher had two left over he chopped them up a bit, I did smash them with a hammer when I got home into small bits but it's left sharp bits if bone but this should be ok for ferrets shouldn't it as they bite the bones and they can become sharp.
Don't worry about the bones! Raw bones are very safe for ferrets. It's the cooked ones that can splinter.
Tonight I am giving them beef and heart and have thrown in the bits of chicken wings to see what happens.
That's perfect! How do they do with hand feeding? Would that get the to eat more and allow some bonding time?
Once I get my order I will stick to a menu but at the moment I am using up what's left in freezer .
That's fine. What you have in the freezer sounds like it is balanced.
There stools are ok I think, I will post pic tomorrow though.
Poop pics are always welcome!
I haven't managed to get pictures of them today as been out, so will get pics tomorrow of them too.
Sounds good! :0)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2014 16:34:21 GMT -5
I keep forgetting to ask you about brushing teeth! I know we are working towards a few BI meals so this wont be an issue, but in the mean time the other mentors have suggested giving them a quick brush a few times a week. It's not a bad idea to have them used to getting their teeth messed with anyhow. I apologize if this is already something you do...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2014 16:50:38 GMT -5
Ok great, thank you. Hopefully in the morning the wings are gone and the mince :-)
Oh I have bought a small chest freezer it will arrive on Friday :-)
I will also be placing a order on Friday with raw 2 go and this will arrive Tuesday.
I will try hand feeding and tug a war with Ollie to see if that gets him going a bit more.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2014 16:52:16 GMT -5
I don't brush there teeth at the moment but will start. I think I will struggle with Oscar as he bites hard!! He draws blood. He's the one from the rescue.
What's best a child's toothbrush or would a cats be a better option ?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2014 17:58:06 GMT -5
Ok great, thank you. Hopefully in the morning the wings are gone and the mince :-)
I hope so too!
Oh I have bought a small chest freezer it will arrive on Friday :-)
YEAH! I have found this REALLY helpful in my selection! I bought about $300 of meat (at different times...) the first month or so and haven't had to get any in a few months and still have a lot left!
I will also be placing a order on Friday with raw 2 go and this will arrive Tuesday.
Let me know what you order and we will work on a menu this weekend to have ready by Tuesday :0)
I will try hand feeding and tug a war with Ollie to see if that gets him going a bit more.
If anything, it's good bonding! haha
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2014 18:02:41 GMT -5
I don't brush there teeth at the moment but will start. I think I will struggle with Oscar as he bites hard!! He draws blood. He's the one from the rescue.
They do sometimes, little beasts! They should know to not bite the hand that feeds them! Just get a good scruff and lots of praise when it's done!
What's best a child's toothbrush or would a cats be a better option ?
Looks like others have used children's brushes, even gauze will work. A cat's is likely a good option also because it is designed for pets. I honestly don't think it matters as long as it's soft. I don't see any mention of any kind of toothpaste, so maybe just a bit of water is best.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2014 5:06:10 GMT -5
Ok this morning the chopped up chicken wings, the minced meat, and the two mice from yesterday morning were all still in there they had just stashed it all, they had no kibble over night so I'm not sure what they have survived on to be honest! Also I'm spending money on this meat only to throw it all away :-( I'm not sure why there not eating it again. Oscar was sick this morning it was liquid I'm not sure why he has never done this before. They both have lots of energy this morning and didn't go straight for the kibble they played a lot first. I will get a soft toothbrush today. Below are some pictures of them and there stools, only one of Oscar as he does bite hard and its difficult to hold him on my own and get a pic lol! This is Ollie the silver he weighs 2.12lbs This is Oscar the polecat coloured he weighs 3.2lbs Ollie from above There stools this morning are a bit sloppy, so prob do need more bone but to be honest I'm struggling to get them to eat any or a lot of meat now This is pic of Ollie from above
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2014 12:23:43 GMT -5
Ok this morning the chopped up chicken wings, the minced meat, and the two mice from yesterday morning were all still in there they had just stashed it all, they had no kibble over night so I'm not sure what they have survived on to be honest! Also I'm spending money on this meat only to throw it all away :-( I'm not sure why there not eating it again.
That is really frustrating, Katy. I'm sorry. The fact that they are still active, I would not be worried.
Oscar was sick this morning it was liquid I'm not sure why he has never done this before.
Sick? I am guessing you mean vomited? If it was clear, I would think he drank too much and with them playing maybe he just vomited it up. He is acting ok otherwise? Have you seen him poop recently? I have had other ferrents tell stories of their guys getting hair in their throat (it is shedding season) and them coughing and vomiting from it. I am not sure otherwise, but just watch him.
They both have lots of energy this morning and didn't go straight for the kibble they played a lot first.
The fact they didn't go straight for the kibble tells me they were not that hunry. Maybe they are eating, just not a lot. Now that it is warmer, my guys have slowed down on food intake a lot! Can you possible weigh your next meal so we know about how much your giving them. Adult males eat about 2-4oz a day, kits maybe a little more.
I know this is all so frustrating and confusing, but they will get there, I promise. Just remember, as long as they are active, poops are ok, and they are not loosing weight then they are getting enough to eat (WHERE EVER it may be!).
Below are some pictures of them and there stools, only one of Oscar as he does bite hard and its difficult to hold him on my own and get a pic lol!
Oscar is an ornery boy isn't he! Little biter! Haha He looks really good. My initial opinion of Ollie is he looks on the thin side. I had the same issue with my Ruby girl and my mentor basically came to the conclusion that that was just her. She told me to just monitor her weight and make sure it never drops drastically. She is a little spaz though and so active. She is usually the first to eat though, so I know she gets enough. I posted the link to the other mentors to get their opinion on Ollie too and I will let you know if they have concerns. :0)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2014 12:30:13 GMT -5
Also, I had emailed one of our senior mentors who is familiar with commercial grinds for advice and here are a few suggestions they had:
~no need to feed kibbles if they are on a commercial grind. ~she needs to brush teeth a few times a week though. ~as long as no insulinoma she can leave out 2 meals a day and leave some extra so they can snack in between. ~if she does not want to leave out wet /fresh grinds, she can use DRY stella & chewys freeze dried raw. the canine formulas are all fine except for pheasant, venison and rabbit as they contain too much protein. rest are fine. dandy lamb, beef, chicken and duck duck goose. she can break patties up and leave in bowl dry for in between meal snacking. ~she can also use vital essentials freeze dried nibblets. come in turkey, ,beef and chicken. ~the freeze dried dandy lamb and beef and the VE nibblets actually help keep teeth clean bc kind of tough and chewy. ~must leave plenty of fresh water available. ~add 250 mg of taurine per day to any raw grind that she uses OR at least 3 oz of fresh hearts per ferret each week.
So now we know that we should supplement taurine OR feed hearts. Also, I am not sure if those freeze dried raw (FDR) is something you can get there, but it may be a good alternative to the kibble.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2014 13:17:34 GMT -5
Sick? I am guessing you mean vomited? If it was clear, I would think he drank too much and with them playing maybe he just vomited it up. He is acting ok otherwise? Have you seen him poop recently? I have had other ferrents tell stories of their guys getting hair in their throat (it is shedding season) and them coughing and vomiting from it. I am not sure otherwise, but just watch him.
Yes he was running around the garden, Ollie wanted to play with him, he then ran backwards and forwards a few times, started retching and then was sick it was a yellow liquid.
Yes I will weigh there meals out tonight and then post here.
Yes when I got Ollie as a kit he was very, very underweight he wouldn't eat, I took him to the vets who gave him a steroid injection but did warn me that he wouldn't survive, I used to sit with him day and night hand feeding until he started eating himself, since then he has been fine but always on the slim side, I'm am a little concerned as he is quite slim. He's very active though he has more energy than Oscar also he does only weigh 4 oz less than Oscar so there not much between them is there ?
Yes Oscar is a lovely looking ferrets, he has a cute little face but he's quite aggressive, I do find this with rescue ferrets though. He has a lovely soft and shiny coat which is what I am hoping to see in Ollie but so far Ollie's has remained rough and dry.
Regarding the email from another mentor
I'm feeding kibble because of concerns around Ollie, and because at the moment there not eating the meat as well as I had hoped, I want to feed partial raw to begin with the hope of moving to full raw in the future.
Where they say leave 2 meals out per day and extra to snack on is this on full raw ? As I'm only feeding one meal of raw at night.
I'm in the uk and so I can't get stella and chewys freeze dried raw is there an alternative in the uk that's is good to use ?
I'm not sure what or where I would get patties from ? I can't get vital essentials over here either, so if anyone knows of a alternative in the uk that would be great.
I will order some heart mince and some taurine powder just in case they don't eat the hearts, there not keen and also not very keen on the beef and heart, they can smell the heart in it and turn there noses up.
In July I will have two more ferret kits, I will start these straight on raw hopefully I will have a good, balanced menu in place before they arrive so I won't have any worries that I'm harming them..
Ollie has slept more than usual today,
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2014 13:39:06 GMT -5
How much should I put out tonight each ? I had 4oz each ready in fridge Iv just weighed it! is this two much as its one meal at night, kibble in the day.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2014 14:21:27 GMT -5
How much should I put out tonight each ? I had 4oz each ready in fridge Iv just weighed it! is this two much as its one meal at night, kibble in the day. Since there not eating it well, and we don't want too much waist, I would only put out 4 oz tonight. Maybe try and check on them and if needed you can add more.
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