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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2014 10:01:50 GMT -5
Thank you for stepping in for Katt, and for all your help. :hug:
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2014 16:41:23 GMT -5
Good Afternoon (wave)
I had to make a slight change in menu plan. We haven't been to the grocery store yet, so I pulled out the CGH. This morning, I cut it in half and then cut off the wing and sectioned it. One slice lengthwise and three chops across. Wynstan ran off with it and ate all of it. I cut the breast off and then chopped the drumstick into small pieces. Everyone including Mika finished off the breakfast CGH.
Dinner is the other half of the CGH. Everyone is napping, after a disturbing (to them) day of carpet cleaning, picking up hidden stashes and rearranging furniture. Mika keeps following me around and giving me kisses. I think she is seeking reassurance, that there won't be anymore changes. Wynstan pouted when I found his stash, and is now sulking in the third bedroom. Roamy has decided the laundry room is the quietest room and is napping in there. Juliet got busy rearranging her blankets, now that they are all clean and folded again.
Yesterday, I made organ soup and thought I would try giving them chunks of organs before I put out soup. No one would eat of the chunks of liver or kidney. It was worth a try, anyway. They did eat the soup, once it was poured over the chunks.
:thankyou: and I hope your Sunday is so....relaxing. (I'm not sure if Sherry or Katt is reading this, lol) but both of you need and deserve a wonderful, slow, and quiet Sunday. :wave2:
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Post by katt on May 11, 2014 3:48:09 GMT -5
I survived!!!! (dance) I have a lot of catching up to do it look like, but I am back in action! It feels like it's been a year instead of just a week an a half, sheesh. Did I just read that little Miss Mika is nomming on bonesd? Good girl! How are they all doing?
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2014 12:24:26 GMT -5
Hi and Welcome back to the Non Studying part of your world. Everyone is doing well. Mika is getting much better at bones. I still chop them, small for her. She is doing great, though. Her energy levels are really high. She's up alot during the day and she is even making lot's of little dooks. She has become very affectionate and follows me around, giving me her special elbow kisses. Everyone is eating bones, in small pieces. Wynstan gets the wing end pieces and I just chop them lengthwise and then chop (without separating) the piece. I never find those stashed, so I know he is eating them. He's not pleased with me, I picked up all of his stashes and I am keeping a close eye out, and get them up quickly. Everyone is eating, what I put out for them. Wynstan doesn't like soupies, very much and he still runs off, with any of the larger pieces. Roamy and Juliet eat whatever is given to them and Mika is coming along nicely. You have done so well and should be terribly proud of yourself! Now, I hope that you enjoy your well deserved break, at least for a little while...before you gear up, for your big move. :thankyou:
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Post by katt on May 11, 2014 15:09:08 GMT -5
Hi and Welcome back to the Non Studying part of your world. Everyone is doing well. Mika is getting much better at bones. I still chop them, small for her. She is doing great, though. Her energy levels are really high. She's up alot during the day and she is even making lot's of little dooks. She has become very affectionate and follows me around, giving me her special elbow kisses. Everyone is eating bones, in small pieces. Wynstan gets the wing end pieces and I just chop them lengthwise and then chop (without separating) the piece. I never find those stashed, so I know he is eating them. He's not pleased with me, I picked up all of his stashes and I am keeping a close eye out, and get them up quickly. Everyone is eating, what I put out for them. Wynstan doesn't like soupies, very much and he still runs off, with any of the larger pieces. Roamy and Juliet eat whatever is given to them and Mika is coming along nicely. You have done so well and should be terribly proud of yourself! Now, I hope that you enjoy your well deserved break, at least for a little while...before you gear up, for your big move. :thankyou: It sounds like they are doing great! Not that I am surprised! haha They are good little fuzz with a great ferret momma. Little Mika...one of the really neat things about the switch is that all of the hand feeding tends to really build and tighten bonds. Thank you! I am definitely proud. It still hasn't quite sunk in that we actually survived the first year! AND without remediating any classes! haha There were definitely a few close calls. That app you tolde about for neuro really came in handy for visualizing the 3D organization of the brain. Spent a lot of one on one time with the professor too. As a class we had at least 2 casualties in Micro (our last test by the time of which everyone was absurdly sleep deprived), and 1 in Neuro plus 1 person remediating histology from first semester. Makes me sad, but SO grateful that I passed! Our class is super close (20 people in the same room all day every day going through "battle" together, it's hard not to get close haha). I'm going to miss seeing everyone all the time, it's so weird how we are all scattering for the summer and will be part of a class of 250 in Seattle. lol So I saw that someone is getting mice? What's the status there? Is hubby going to intro them to whole prey now? Just let me know! For everything else just keep doing what you have been! Will Wynstan eat the organ soup? How are they doing on heart chunks?
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2014 9:27:28 GMT -5
Good Morning (wave)
The mouse came in from the outside, unfortunately for the mouse. Juliet caught it. I saw the mouse run by me, and went to grab a cup to catch it. Wynstan showed up, the mouse ran by him. Then Juliet swooped in and dispatched it, in seconds. Then she grabbed it and ran off. Roamy showed up and Juliet took the mouse, behind the freezer in the laundry room. We didn't let her keep and eat it. I just didn't know, if it was safe. Paul will be doing the whole prey and we plan on doing that soon.
Wynstan will eat the organ soup, its not his favorite thing, though. I have to coax him to eat the soup. I tried getting everyone to eat chunks of kidney and liver, but they really are reluctant. I have been able to get them to eat small pieces of hearts. The biggest problem with chunks, is that anything, that is as large as a quarter, is fair game for stashing. Especially with Wynstan.
I'll post this weeks menu, a little later today. I'll be keeping it simple and concentrate on the bones and organ chunks. Tonight, they will have pureed (with chunks) of beef with egg in it.
I'm glad that APP helped you, but it also helps when you are so disciplined and hard working. I really think that you and Shane are so fortunate, that you are both going thru this together and completely understand, just what it is like. It must be hard for those students, who's sig. other can't relate and wants to spend more time together or go party hard.
:thankyou:
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Post by katt on May 13, 2014 2:05:26 GMT -5
The mouse came in from the outside, unfortunately for the mouse. Juliet caught it. I saw the mouse run by me, and went to grab a cup to catch it. Wynstan showed up, the mouse ran by him. Then Juliet swooped in and dispatched it, in seconds. Then she grabbed it and ran off. Roamy showed up and Juliet took the mouse, behind the freezer in the laundry room. We didn't let her keep and eat it. I just didn't know, if it was safe. Paul will be doing the whole prey and we plan on doing that soon.Good girl! (giggle) Definitely a good thing you took the mouse away though. You never know if the neighbors put out poison, and any wild meat should always be frozen 3-4 days to kill any parasites they could be carrying. Wynstan will eat the organ soup, its not his favorite thing, though. I have to coax him to eat the soup. I tried getting everyone to eat chunks of kidney and liver, but they really are reluctant. I have been able to get them to eat small pieces of hearts. The biggest problem with chunks, is that anything, that is as large as a quarter, is fair game for stashing. Especially with Wynstan.Yes stashing is definitely a bigger issue when you free roam. :/ I don't really have many tips on that since my boys aren't free roam and the feeding den clearly didn't help you. You may consider giving the den another shot now that they will eat bigger chunks though, and hook the meat to the hooks. Won't help with organ and heart but for other meats at least it might reduce stashing a tiny bit. They'll still get chunks off though. So Wynstan is being the stubborn little brat eh. I'm not ready to give up on heart chunks with them BUT, do you think he would take to the organ soup better if it was half heart? So say if you made a soup that is 1/4 liver, 1/4 other organs, 1/2 heart? 3 Meals of that soup a week would cover their organ and heart needs. Another thing - can you list exactly what organs you are using right now? You might start experimenting with different organs. Like try a liver puree without any other organs, try brain vs kidney, try using chicken liver vs pork liver vs beef liver. Sometimes it's a matter of the protein. Some ferrets for example are totally fine with chicken liver but despise beef liver. Beef in particular tends to be very strongly flavored. Others really hate kidney, or brains. If we can narrow down a bit which parts of the soup he likes better or worse that could give us some better ideas on different tricks we can try. I would also like to propose some tough love at some point if you are game. Now I will say this isn't super necessary, they are just fine eating hearts as soup. It is better for them to accept it as chunks, the more soup meals they get the less teeth cleaning they get - but then they are getting plenty of bones and whole meats the rest of the week, so that isn't a huge concern. We can keep trying adding chunks in and gradually increasing them, but I think tough love might get the point across. This would be a bit out of your comfort zone but I'm proposing it for a few reasons. First I'll explain the Possible future plan, then my reasons why it could be worth a shot. Potential Plan: I think that you could easily get them eating whole hearts in a few days by not giving them anything BUT heart chunks. The you won't get anything else until you eat this first" method works quite well. It is NOT something that we recommend on older ferrets who have been on kibble for a while or ferrets with unknown health histories. However, yours are all very young, and have been on a high quality diet from day 1 so we know their risk of insulinoma is about zilch. A little hunger can be a strong motivator. When they get hungry enough, they WILL eat the hearts. You can hand feed them if needed, but when they get hungry enough they will eventually eat the hearts on their own. We both know they are capable of eating the heart - they will eat it in soup form, and they will eat decent sized chunks of other muscle meats. They are just being stubborn, so I vote for out-stubborning them. (calcium powder would be sprinkled onto the hearts if their poops started to get too soft of course, the goal certainly isn't to give them diarrhea - I wouldn't generally use this method with organs) Like I said, I know with your need to feed everyone this is probably outside of your comfort zone (don't worry -you will be hand feeding them so they won't be allowed to starve entirely lol). BUT my reasons for proposing this as a possibility are: - as I said the ONLY reason they aren't eating heart in chunk form is pure stubbornness. - the chunks are better for their jaws and teeth than soupies which can contribute to plaque - honestly, I think it will be a good thing to experience personally before you mentor so that you have been-there-done-that and have that much more personal experience with different techniques to work off of. Particularly with your strong need to make sure everyone is fed, I think it would be valuable for you yourself to try the hunger-motivation trick so that you feel more comfortable suggesting it to mentees if it becomes necessary and can see for yourself that it's not going to hurt them All that said, is not going to do it going to prevent you from graduating or being a great mentor? Absolutely not. I will leave the ball in your court, you certainly don't have to decide right away, but I think you should think it over. I'll post this weeks menu, a little later today. I'll be keeping it simple and concentrate on the bones and organ chunks. Tonight, they will have pureed (with chunks) of beef with egg in it. Perfect. I'm glad that APP helped you, but it also helps when you are so disciplined and hard working. I really think that you and Shane are so fortunate, that you are both going thru this together and completely understand, just what it is like. It must be hard for those students, who's sig. other can't relate and wants to spend more time together or go party hard.It really does help in a lot of ways, though it makes it harder in some. Mostly that neither of us has an income besides loans right now, and it's not like one of us can cook and clean for the busy one. LOL Overall though I think we picked the long straw. I am eternally grateful that we got in together. There simply aren't enough words to express how I feel. I haven't had the easiest life (though most certainly not the hardest either! life can always be harder). I've been through a lot, and I have worked my @$$ off for as long as I can remember to get the things I want from life. I have seen others peoples misfortunes and been through my own as well. Much of what I have now is due to my own hard work (which only makes me that much more proud and grateful for it), but so much of it is luck, gifts from the universe, or whatever you prefer to believe. I think that things happen for a reason and that I am exactly where I need to be, and every particle of my being is grateful to be here. My boys, Shane, school, my family and his, the forum and all of the wonderful friends and supportive people here, my classmates, my friends...I honestly could not be more grateful for each and every one. I have everything I have ever dreamed of and more. Every day just amazes me, it's kind of hard to believe that this is real life some days. haha
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Post by katt on May 13, 2014 3:29:44 GMT -5
Oh and whenever you and Paul want Paul to start on the whole prey, just say the word!
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2014 8:41:01 GMT -5
BUT, do you think he would take to the organ soup better if it was half heart? So say if you made a soup that is 1/4 liver, 1/4 other organs, 1/2 heart? 3 Meals of that soup a week would cover their organ and hearI will try making the soup, 1/4 liver, 1/4 other and 1/2 heart. Another thing - can you list exactly what organs you are using right nowThe organs are pork brains, chicken hearts, duck hearts, pork heart, pork kidney, beef kidney, pork liver, chicken liver, and beef intestines (haven't tried that yet), and I had some other organs, but they are gone now. I would also like to propose some tough love at some point if you are game.I certainly am willing to try the hearts for a few days in a row. I really like that idea, and made good progress, doing the chicken wings in that manner. I have taken a package of chicken hearts out, and we will have hearts for the next few days. The funny thing about feeding that way, is it makes me less anxious. I don't know why, but maybe its because I see them eat well and throw away less. Once again, the beef puree with egg did not go over well, yesterday. They like beef slices, they like egg, but they don't like pureed beef with egg. Now that is warmer, and the bugs (and mice) come out, I have been very careful about the stashing. I am going to try a feeding den again. I have to come up with a plan for several feeding dens, though. Mika will happily go into a large floor vase and eat, Juliet runs off into her chair and Wynstan goes upstairs. Roamy usually stays in place, in front of his plate. He never seems to need to stash. I will talk to Paul about trying some whole prey (mice), this weekend. Overall though I think we picked the long straw.
I do too! I really believe that when you are grateful for your gifts and blessings, the Universe knows and rewards you. I don't think that I believe envisioning yourself or envisioning winning the lottery (lol) works, or I would be somewhere very different. But, I'm a firm believer in gratitude and kindness taking you a long, long way. A form of Karma. Okay and Thank you again, I will put out hearts for the next few days and then post the menu plan, right after that.
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2014 11:30:22 GMT -5
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Post by katt on May 13, 2014 17:48:09 GMT -5
Oh what rotten little thives they are!! So glad that you caught that on camera! I just love the picture of Juliet...me? No I haven't seen any missing chicken wings, not at all! I was just cleaning up the counters that's all, just rearranging a bit... hum dee dummm.... nuthin' to see here!
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2014 8:55:58 GMT -5
Good Morning (wave)
I weighed everyone yesterday. Roamy 2. 4.2 oz Holding steady Juliet 1. 13.2oz Juliet thinks its Winter, has put on weight and has a fluffier coat Mika 1. 14.5oz A little weight gain, she is getting longer now Wynstan 2. 11.2oz holding steady
A basic recap of everyone's eating is: the girls eat the least. somewhere around 2 oz of food, though Juliet is a big stasher. I have seen her retrieve her food and eat large pieces. Especially if it is crunchy chicken. She loves soupies and will eat at the plate. Her poos are well formed, so she is eating bone. I don't see her do that, though. Little Miss Mika is now eating small bone pieces. She likes soupie, and like Juliet will eat everything that I have put out. Roamy is my best eater overall, only because he stays at the plate. He eats bone, in small pieces and eats whatever is put out. He eats about 3oz a day. Wynstan is my bone eater. He demolished a whole chicken wing tip yesterday, as you saw from the picture. He doesn't like soupie, but will eat it. He eats whatever is put out and stashes and then eats his stash. He eats anywhere from 4 to 5oz a day.
I put the chicken hearts out yesterday for dinner and this morning for breakfast. I put 8 hearts out last night. While I was cutting them, Wynstan and Roamy were eating them. I cut them lengthwise and then width wise, into 4 pieces. So, they were good size pieces. I handed Wynstan a whole heart and he ran off with it. The girls were not up, but the dinner was all gone, when I checked in the morning.
Breakfast was hearts again. Wynstan was first up and ate every piece, that I handed him. I put 6 hearts out and when Roamy got up, he had a few pieces. He is laying on me, as I type. He's trying to bribe me with a cuddle, so I will take him for a walk. Its raining though, so he will have to wait until later.
Mika went for a car ride with Paul and I. It was just a short ride, to run an errand. She seemed to enjoy the extra attention and exploring the new place. I had her on a leash and she stayed on my lap, looked out the window and played in the glove box.
:thankyou:
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Post by katt on May 15, 2014 3:02:53 GMT -5
I weighed everyone yesterday. Roamy 2. 4.2 oz Holding steady Juliet 1. 13.2oz Juliet thinks its Winter, has put on weight and has a fluffier coat Mika 1. 14.5oz A little weight gain, she is getting longer now Wynstan 2. 11.2oz holding steadyLooking good! Koda thinks it is winter too. He has always been on par with his seasons, but we had a bit of a mess last year with trying to use Lupron to hold off his AD breaktrhough symptoms long enough to stay on schedule for Des, instead of going straight for a new Des, and that messed him up bad. Moral of the story - don't use Lupron for breakthrough, just get another Des on board. Ugh. A basic recap of everyone's eating is: the girls eat the least. somewhere around 2 oz of food, though Juliet is a big stasher. I have seen her retrieve her food and eat large pieces. Especially if it is crunchy chicken. She loves soupies and will eat at the plate. Her poos are well formed, so she is eating bone. I don't see her do that, though. Little Miss Mika is now eating small bone pieces. She likes soupie, and like Juliet will eat everything that I have put out. Roamy is my best eater overall, only because he stays at the plate. He eats bone, in small pieces and eats whatever is put out. He eats about 3oz a day. Wynstan is my bone eater. He demolished a whole chicken wing tip yesterday, as you saw from the picture. He doesn't like soupie, but will eat it. He eats whatever is put out and stashes and then eats his stash. He eats anywhere from 4 to 5oz a day.Oh they are doing so great! And Yaaaaay Mika!!!! (dance) (dance) (dance) (dance) I put the chicken hearts out yesterday for dinner and this morning for breakfast. I put 8 hearts out last night. While I was cutting them, Wynstan and Roamy were eating them. I cut them lengthwise and then width wise, into 4 pieces. So, they were good size pieces. I handed Wynstan a whole heart and he ran off with it. The girls were not up, but the dinner was all gone, when I checked in the morning.
Breakfast was hearts again. Wynstan was first up and ate every piece, that I handed him. I put 6 hearts out and when Roamy got up, he had a few pieces. He is laying on me, as I type. He's trying to bribe me with a cuddle, so I will take him for a walk. Its raining though, so he will have to wait until later.Great progress! (dance) See, I knew they could do it! What did the girls think of the heart chunks? I am guessing that since they disappeared they probably ate some, but were you able to catch them in action at all? Mika went for a car ride with Paul and I. It was just a short ride, to run an errand. She seemed to enjoy the extra attention and exploring the new place. I had her on a leash and she stayed on my lap, looked out the window and played in the glove box. Oh spoiled girl! haha Sounds liek fun! My boys love going on adventures. They are seasoned little travelers. Before I was living with Shane, we went back and forth a lot (20-30 min drive between my place and his) and they of course always came with to whoever's place we were staying at for the night or week. Then every summer they come with us to the beach cabin (3 hours away) and the last summer or two they came to Fairbanks with us (5-6hr drive). This year will be beach and then Seattle. They usually sleep most of the way, but they like it when we roll the windows down so they can smell things passing by and they LOVE exploring the car. They'll have to get out for some car exploring on the trip to Seattle or they'll go nuts being cooped up. :/ We will be stopping to visit Sherry on the way through CA (yaaay! SO excited! (dance) ) and she has kindly offered to let us let the boys run around at her house for a bit, which will be a great halfway-point break for them.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2014 13:23:21 GMT -5
(wave) I just posted for today, and then got a Cannot post as a guest. My post disappeared. Sigh. The hearts are going well. The boys eat them, cut in half. Wynstan still runs off with any that are whole. Mika will accept small pieces, she turns her head and runs away, if they get too big. Juliet eats them in larger pieces. I have watched her, just to make sure. She really likes hearts. I have found all the stash spots and retrieved everything. This morning, I decided to check the fold out couch, that is upstairs. I pulled it out and found quite the treasure trove. There was FDR, crunchy chicken pieces, some pork and wrappers with ritz,saltines and pop tarts in them. Still unopened and uneaten, thank goodness. I also found Juliet's stash of kitchen utensils. She had two spatulas, a basting brush, a rubber pot holder, and even the kitchen sink...(wait for it) stopper. She got just flat out angry with me, lunged and nipped my hand. Fluffy tail and all. I gave her a big hug, and let her have one of the spatulas back. First time, she has ever been really P.O'd at me. That's so neat, that you will get to see Sherry. Have you guys ever met before? Your summer should be wonderful, a beach vacation and your move to Seattle. How's the packing going. Did you get your boxes? Okay, all for now. Thanks again.
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Post by katt on May 16, 2014 1:25:43 GMT -5
I just posted for today, and then got a Cannot post as a guest. My post disappeared. Sigh.Ugh! I hate it when posts get lost in hyperspace! *headdesk* The hearts are going well. The boys eat them, cut in half. Wynstan still runs off with any that are whole. Mika will accept small pieces, she turns her head and runs away, if they get too big. Juliet eats them in larger pieces. I have watched her, just to make sure. She really likes hearts.That's great! They are doing wonderfully! (dance) Keep on plugging and chugging on the hearts and bones - slow and steady increase. I have found all the stash spots and retrieved everything. This morning, I decided to check the fold out couch, that is upstairs. I pulled it out and found quite the treasure trove. There was FDR, crunchy chicken pieces, some pork and wrappers with ritz,saltines and pop tarts in them. Still unopened and uneaten, thank goodness. I also found Juliet's stash of kitchen utensils. She had two spatulas, a basting brush, a rubber pot holder, and even the kitchen sink...(wait for it) stopper. She got just flat out angry with me, lunged and nipped my hand. Fluffy tail and all. I gave her a big hug, and let her have one of the spatulas back. First time, she has ever been really P.O'd at me.Oh gee what a spoiled fuzz! I'd take the spatula away though - maybe trade it for a wooden spoon. It's really not worth the risk letting them have access to anything rubber... :/ Take it from someone who has been through not one, but THREE emergency blockage surgeries. That's so neat, that you will get to see Sherry. Have you guys ever met before? Your summer should be wonderful, a beach vacation and your move to Seattle. How's the packing going. Did you get your boxes?We have not! I have never met anyone from the forum in person, and this year I will get to meet Sherry, Cherie, Beth, and hopefully McKenna! (dance) Super excited! I did get a couple of boxes, and we bought some more. Packing slowly but surely. We aren't leaving until July, but we will be gone for a month starting Monday, and then the 4-6 weeks after that we will be doing a lot of fishing and stuff so I want to get stuff packed now that we can - esp so we can visualize how much space our stuff will take up and have time to sell anything that won't fit. How are you feeling with everything? Balancing, introducing new meats, etc? Other than getting Mika to move forward with bone I really think you're about ready to graduate. You are more than capable of gradually increasing the bone and heart chunk sizes gradually from here. I won't cut you loose early though if you want to wait until she is eating bigger bones more confidently. Also, if you (or Paul rather lol) want to work on the whole prey thing before graduating, we can do that too. If you are feeling comfortable doing stuff on your own though, we can begin the graduation process whenever really. Just let me know how you are feeling. Is there anything you are iffy on, unsure of, want more help with, want to wait to finish first, etc...?
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