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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2014 18:53:58 GMT -5
Haha that's not too weird. Mine always get the juices that are in the bag after I defrost their meat and it's always Javik's favorite part. They love fresh, moist meat, don't care for it when it's a couple hours old, and then love the jerkified meat they stash as well. Weirdos. I do notice they actually don't like grinds nearly as much as they like their chunks and whole pieces, so that might be how yours are too; hopefully once they're done with grinds they'll be less particular about how you prepare their food lol. It's not weird that they like it warm though, it actually makes sense. Naturally they would eat prey fresh, so it would still be warm, so I'm sure the warm food is more of a creature comfort to them. I noticed mine LOVE their food partially frozen though, oddly enough. Oh yes, I forgot about the poultry and beef. Rabbits, cavvies, mice (if you can get them adjusted to it - I remember Candy did not enjoy it much), maybe try some lamb or goat if you haven't already, etc. They seem to prefer more exotic foods lol picky little creatures. As long as your knife is sharp it's actually pretty easy to butcher food for them. Thanks to Katt, I (and most of the mentors now lol) have these cool knives called Ulu knives that she sent us from Alaska, they're really useful especially for us women as the handle is directly above the blade which makes it easier to apply direct pressure. Only, don't butcher 30+ lbs of meat at once...I did that a few months ago and my palm ended up bruised for a few days. Jason (bitbyter) has a post on here somewhere of him butchering a cavvy that you might find useful. Let me go find it... holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/11332/gut-prey-warning-graphic (hopefully this isn't too graphic for you...) What types of poultry have you tried so far? Have any of these had a better reaction than the others?: Chicken, turkey, quail, pheasant, game hens, duck, goose, etc. Also a similar question; what have you found to be their absolute favorite meat source so far?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2014 16:46:45 GMT -5
My guys are way too picky. They're like the judges on that food network show Chopped. Have you seen it? I swear they're like "well, today you cut our slivers unevenly, so for that we're going to have to chop you." Chicken, Turkey, Duck, and Goose cause green runny poop in everyone but Trigger if I feed it as the primary source of protein. If I mix it in with Rabbit, Cavvy, and Mutton they tolerate it better. Quail doesn't cause them digestive issues but Candy and Trigger HATE the flavor and maybe even the feathers (HT). I haven't found game hens or pheasant in a whole carcass ground option yet. Favorite meat source to date is cavvy by a LANDSLIDE. Second is rabbit. Oh and there is no such thing as too graphic for me. Ironically, death and dismemberment don't bother me. The only thing I find too graphic is vomit, and only human vomit. Babies and animals I don't really mind. Oh, I almost forgot. I recorded this video a few weeks ago, of Rufus pinning Trigger. I just now remembered to upload it for you. I'm mostly talking to you in the video, but the other YouTubers don't have to know that
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2014 18:21:59 GMT -5
Haha yes, I've seen it. That's too funny. So I think what would be the best way to start the progression would be to order some whole cavvy or rabbit (as it has more meat on it), use the cavvy for the bone stuff and rabbit for meat slivers. The video looks like normal (albeit lazy) play to me. Sexual aggression/fighting (especially due to adrenal) is a lot less lax. Katt just posted a video of her ferret, Koda, showing sexual aggression/mounting due to early adrenal. holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/14470/adrenal-mounting-behavior-videoThis might help give you an idea of what to look for when you're concerned about their play or fighting. Rufus seems to just be asserting dominance, which is fine as long as it isn't happening frequently. If you start noticing it more often then he might need another implant early. Sometimes implants fade as late as 9-12 months, other times they go as early as 4-6 months, so I'd recommend implanting somewhere between 6-9 months. If you let it go until you start seeing signs of Adrenal coming back it means you're letting the disease progress for however long until you catch the signs. As for the poultry, I find cornish game hen pretty readily in my local grocery stores. I buy it whole and butcher it myself (super easy since it's relatively small), Pheasant I've only found in my Asian market so far. They both were fully dressed.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2014 13:28:51 GMT -5
Lazy play... LOL. You're used to young guns. I have old boys. Also keep in mind, that was 5 minutes in. They had been pouncing all over the place but I didn't have my camera handy. By the time I got it in my hand, they were out of steam and Trigger was being flat. Oh and I hate the iPhone for not telling me it was out of space. I recorded 5 minutes of crazy play yesterday only to find out that it stopped recording after 20 seconds because my phone was out of space. GRR. I am so upset - they were HILARIOUS! Skeeter and Trigger were sneaking up on each other and pouncing. Rufus was doing log rolls and Candy does this backwards war dance that I've dubbed the Safety Dance (Its safer for her to dance backwards so she can keep her eyes on the boys). OK, next food question. - MPC has whole dressed rabbits - Includes, head, feet, organs. Skinned and intestines removed.
- HT has assorted rabbits of different sizes. Whole feeders are the entire rabbit fur and all.
So I'd like to go through HT because they also have Cavvies. Can you go to the website and tell me which ones I should get? Rabbits: www.hare-today.com/index.php?cPath=23_43Cavies: www.hare-today.com/index.php?cPath=23_53
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2014 18:06:22 GMT -5
lol my phone did that too!! I recorded a good 5 minutes of Theia and Javik playing in the dig box a few weeks ago and all of the sudden my phone just shut down completely and the video didn't save.
It's always best to get as close to adulthood as possible when you're looking for prey that you'll be feeding as a main part of their diet. It's okay to feed younger prey on occasion, but adult for the most part has more nutrients. I don't see anywhere stating the age range of the prey so I'd imagine the larger rabbits and cavvies are likely closer to adult age. At that point I would just look for what package gives you the most bang for your buck. The colossal rabbits are about $2/lb, jumbo are $2.22/lb, large are $2.40/lb, etc. So I'd say the colossal are the best deal, plus since you'll be using them mostly as a muscle source, they should have the best meat to bone ratio. You can also get some pinkies or fuzzies if you're interested in continuing to test their interest in whole prey. Same thing goes for cavvies; large are $3.60/lb, medium are $6/lb (whoa!), so I'd say the large is the best deal, plus it's adults so better nutritional value. And it's not too difficult to skin them so if you'd prefer to not deal with the fur situation, that won't be too big of an obstacle.
Oh, and when I ordered from HT I got the ground rabbit organs which went over well with mine, so if you'd like to make organs easier on yourself, you can get a chub of that. Only problem is the percentages is 50% liver, 25% heart and 25% kidney, so you'd need to add another meal of heart to balance it out.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2014 17:14:57 GMT -5
OK, so you supplement yours with extra organs? I literally have bags of hearts in my freezer. I got paranoid with the shipping issues over Thanksgiving and ordered like 10lbs of hearts. I don't mind skinning.
I ordered pinkies last time. These guys will not touch them at all. I tried them whole and I tried them chopped up. I found little pinkie parts leftover. These guys also wouldn't touch the whole carcass ground mouse when we had it. They are serious food snobs.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2014 13:56:04 GMT -5
Sorry, I forgot about the fact that you're getting whole cavvies and rabbits. Just a reminder, the balance we need to follow when feeding a frankenprey diet is 75% muscle meat (which includes a full meal of heart), 10% edible bone, and 10% organs (5% liver, 5% other organ). You'll notice there is 5% missing, this originally was reserved for "roughage" (vegetables, feathers, fur, oils, eggs, etc), but you can use edible bone here if you're seeing loose stool, or add more heart. It doesn't hurt to feed a little bit more heart than you think is necessary as it's pretty difficult to overdose on taurine and it is a very important nutrient. Now, as you know, the minimum for sources of proteins is 3 a week, so we'll have to find one more whole prey they enjoy if you want to use whole animals, or find a source of chunks from one of your providers. If we can't get them to eat 3 whole prey sources a week, you'll have to supplement some organs to make up for the missing third source. Either way, I would suggest making a heart soup and feeding it one meal a week. Yeah, from your experiences last time with mice I'm going to assume that's not going to be one of your sources
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2014 14:24:29 GMT -5
I feed hearts from animals they don't normally eat as proteins: beef, lamb, turkey. After my next paycheck I'll order the whole prey.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2014 12:39:14 GMT -5
OK, I placed my order today. A Whole Prey Sampler for the babies. I got a colossal rabbit, a supersized cavvy, and some quail. My cleaver is sharpened. Can you give me instructions on the best way to transition from slivers of meat to chunks of whole prey? How big should I cut the pieces? Do I need to smash certain bones with my tenderizer mallet? If you've got too much going on at home, I can ping the mods on FB. Please let me know.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2014 14:51:10 GMT -5
It will be a bit of a trial and error for you to find what process works the best for yours, but I'd start with obviously getting them onto just slivers first (no grinds or soups), which will be a PAIN to prep every day, so hopefully it won't last too long. Then once they're eating slivers fine (my biggest concern is Candy with this stage), start making them thicker and longer. You always want the pieces to be in strips more than cubes as it will be easier for them to figure out. At this point you just have to figure out what works best for them, you can start experimenting by changing the size/shape of the chunks and giving them half what they're used to, and half the odd shapes to see if they adjust to it fine. If you have pieces remaining that are all the new shapes, then go back to what they're used to and very slowly increase the size. They'll eventually adjust. As for bones, at the beginning you will have to smash them to mush pretty much until they no longer panic at getting them in their mouths. This might actually make slivers easier for you, because the meat tends to just separate itself when you take the mallet to it so you won't have to do as much slicing; just look for the big chunks and break them down when you're done. Thankfully most of these bones should be easy enough to smash without much effort. The rabbit might be a bit harder, but the quail and cavvy shouldn't give you too hard of a time. What I always found to be the easiest when smashing wings (and all bones, I just smashed wings the most often), was to cut the meat down to the bone enough to expose it and make it easy to make direct contact to the bone, rather than having to smash through meat first. Make sure to cover the meat before smashing though lol or you'll end up with bones and marrow flying everywhere I learned this first hand when the bag I had been smashing a wing in busted open.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2014 21:10:50 GMT -5
Have you received your new order yet? If so, how are they doing with it? Also, any more flea sightings?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2014 11:41:52 GMT -5
I had to wait for my paycheck which arrived last Thursday. Hare Today only ships Monday - Wednesday, so my order will ship today. Instead of mixing heart slivers in with their grinds, yesterday I served them a bowl full of heart slivers (thin and about 1 to 2 inches long). Rufus demolished his. Candy still tries to lick as if she's eating grinds but once a chunk gets in her mouth, she chews it with her back teeth. Skeeter ate but not as well as I'd hoped. Trigger ate when he felt like it, also not as much as I'd hoped. They all will eat it, especially when they're hungry. However, I can't withhold food to get them to eat the next style. That worked with kibble, the "eat or go hungry" method, but now that we have Skeeter with Insulinoma, that is not possible. I can't allow his BG to drop.
Not a single flea anywhere. Not even the 1 that was on Rufus. I'm confused now. Maybe it wasn't a flea, but I could have sworn it was. Maybe it ended up in the carpet, and since I use vinegar/water in my carpet shampooer, it killed it. I think you said vinegar is a good flea killer, right?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2014 12:50:08 GMT -5
Yes, Vinegar is good for fleas. I'm glad they're gone now.
I completely agree with not withholding food, which is why it's important to keep your progress going at the speed they allow. Keep including slivers with their grinds, or feed slivers as their first meal, then grinds as the second, or whatever you feel works best for you.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2014 14:23:37 GMT -5
So, I think Skeeter's Insu is under control. You mentioned my boys doing lazy play in one of the videos I posted. Of course, I have no camera handy when this happened. Today, the kids went bonkers after breakfast. I'm talking ninja karate chop flying through the air, barrel rolls, dooking away, running, tackling play. They also seem to have huge appetites today. Hopefully the HT order will arrive tomorrow and we can get this show on the road.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2014 15:33:20 GMT -5
That all sounds fantastic! I love it when they have that much energy. Hearing all the running and dooking always brightens my day I just went shopping for ferret food this weekend, need to make one more trip to another store then I'll be doing my extreme butchering...Yay. I can't wait /sarcasm. Haha. I'll be sure to share the bruises my hand with receive lmao
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