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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2014 20:31:14 GMT -5
So in one week how many protein sources are they getting?
(Sorry it's so short and blunt lol I'm about to walk out the door, but wanted to post really quick before I leave.)
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2014 19:03:50 GMT -5
Each week they get 3 to 4 proteins. Cavvy, Rabbit, Quail, and if you count the Lamb or Turkey hearts as a different protein then possibly 5. I also have ground herring that I add as a flavor supplement (it seems to entice them like salmon oil, but I know it doesn't have the same nutritional value so I don't use it as a primary protein).
I also have Mutton and Muskrat, but they don't love those, so I add them like the herring: Only occasionally, and not as a primary protein. So, some week they are eating 6 or 7 proteins. I know the rule says minimum of 3.
Today is weekly weigh in. I'm feeling much better about Skeeter. When I bring Skeeter back for his follow-up, I'll get the other 3 their checkups. I'm not happy about Trigger losing weight. Even though its in oz. it seems like a lot. Is this a normal range of weight loss over the winter? Its been a little bit warmer lately than it was a few weeks ago. Maybe he thinks its warming up?
Weights (and difference from last week): Rufus: 47.15 oz. / +3.00 oz. Trigger: 54.90 oz. / -2.60 oz. Candy: 26.85 oz. / -0.60 oz. Skeeter: 45.55 oz. / +4.40 oz.
I am no longer 100% sure that Trigger is deaf. Today he was on the other side of the room from me and I whistled and he whipped his head around and looked right at me. Maybe he's partially deaf, like he can only hear certain frequencies. I don't think he hears me when I talk, but he definitely heard me from 25 feet away when I whistled. Maybe he's just a typical male... selective hearing. (giggle)
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2014 23:21:19 GMT -5
Haha it is believed that some "deaf" ferrets are just selective about what they hear. Does he respond to squeaker toys in any way? Theia tries to bite me if I'm squeaking one, but Javik flat out ignores the sound.
I think Trigger's loss isn't too much of a concern yet. Of course we should still keep an eye on it, but there are many possible reasons for it. He's likely just going through his spring season change early. (Some lose weight before they blow their coats, others lose it after.) There's also the possibility that he's just now starting to even out after the appetite increase and weight gain from raw.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2014 15:15:53 GMT -5
I am definitely going to make sure Skeeter gets an implant at the follow up appointment. In the last 24 hours, he got aggressive with Rufus and Candy. This morning, he got super aggressive with Trigger to the point where Trigger pooped. I separated them and everything has been fine since. He is surely being aggressive. Add that to the musky smell, the itching and I think we're also catching early adrenal. Is yellowing fur a sign of adrenal too? Skeeter is looking a bit yellow.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2014 12:14:04 GMT -5
Yellowing fur is caused by the overproduction of oils, which is commonly linked to the hormonal imbalance created by Adrenal disease. So yes, it is possible that it is a sign as well. While your vet says that there aren't any signs of Adrenal that she can catch, it does not mean that it isn't present at this moment. It is very likely that it is there, just hasn't developed to a point where vets become concerned about it. If your gut feeling is that he's adrenal that I'd stick to that; from what you've told me I believe he is as well.
How has he been doing with the insulinoma? Has he had any crashes or weak days lately?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2014 15:54:02 GMT -5
Skeeter is responding very well to the Pred. Weight gain, no crashes and I'm not really seeing weak days so-to-speak. I think in combination with the Insu, was the fact that he had lost so much weight. I see him getting stronger as he puts on more muscle and fat. He's still wobbly but I think some of the wobbling is due to being emaciated. Now, he is jumping and running and doing a lot of dragging and stashing. It almost seems like he's working out - trying to get back in shape.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2014 12:16:51 GMT -5
That's fantastic to hear I just want to remind you of your choices with treating his Adrenal. First, it's likely your vet won't agree to diagnose without test results claiming his Adrenal glands are diseased, while this is not a big deal because you can still treat him without a diagnosis, I just wanted to mention that. A lot of vets won't diagnose purely based on the physical symptoms you're seeing and experiencing, they need to see diseased glands, some vets will go off of the clear symptoms; uncharacteristic aggression, weight loss (prior to pred), burnt smell (this is often laughed at as a clear symptom, but Heather Downie's vet will diagnose purely off that because it IS such a clear sign), fur loss, etc. But to wait until the signs they need start to show would just be progressing the disease and I find it pointless. Many ferrents decide to just implant at a certain age just to help prevent AD from developing (although there isn't much proof that it actually PREVENTS, but it could slow down progression). Second thing I wanted to mention, it is common for DES (and other treatments for AD) to bring a BG down. So definitely talk to your vet and make sure she feels comfortable with Skeeter's BG level before implanting. If not, I would do a trial run of Lupron. Hopefully by the end of the trial he'll be level enough BG-wise for DES.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2014 11:56:55 GMT -5
Hello,
Weekly weigh in report for you. They're still eating well and Skeeter is still responding well to his Pred. I'm waiting for a call back from the vet to see if we can do Skeeter's follow up and the rest their checkup next Monday (since I have off).
Weights (and difference from last week): Rufus: 46.30 oz. / -0.85 oz. Trigger: 50.15 oz. / -4.75 oz. Candy: 26.60 oz. / -0.25 oz. Skeeter: 44.85 oz. / -0.70 oz.
So, about Trigger. I'm watching him eat. I'm watching him poop. He eats good meals and he poops nicely, but I did notice that he's only eating at dawn and dusk - no more in between snacking, so it seems that he's now regulating and he may be starting his move towards summer weight early. He is playing like crazy - very active.
I now take them out of their enclosure and let them free run in the "office" (this half of the finished basement) for about 1 - 2 hours daily. The reason it is such a short time is that I take them out and they run and play, chasing each other and wrestling. Then after a while they all climb up onto this mattress I have on the floor and snuggle up and fall asleep, at which point I put them back in their enclosure. I'm letting them set the timeline.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2014 15:01:08 GMT -5
Wow! I was just looking back to check for irregularities (found none btw), and noticed that in your first weigh in, ALL of them were in the 30 oz range or lower. The progress they've all made is fantastic Anyway, Trigger is still doing fine by the sounds of it. He has gained the most so he probably will have the biggest regulation period. As long as he still feels, looks, and acts healthy then there shouldn't be anything to worry about. Especially if they're all losing, then you can usually assume it's seasonal changes. Their free-roam time sounds good to me Glad they enjoy it, don't worry about how long it is as long as they all show interest and excitement over it, that's all that matters. If they get tired then they probably exhausted themselves having fun!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2014 16:31:03 GMT -5
Howdy... I will do official weigh ins for you later today (in oz.). Yesterday was the major vet visit - all four at once. Skeeter is responding well to the pred. His "fasting" BG yesterday (he had eaten 4 hours prior, pooped and not yet eaten again) was 82. The vet was very happy with that.
Trigger has an enlarged spleen and lymph nodes in his neck. I have a follow up in three weeks. His bloodwork came back perfect, so no cancers. My vet suspects he might be fighting off a cold or something. I'm to check his neck daily and if the lymph nodes get hard, I have to bring him in ASAP.
For Rufus, she said she feels that he's overweight. She wants him to be around 1.9 lbs and he's 2.1 lbs. He's been losing over the last few weeks, so she said to keep an eye on him.
Candy was fantastic and perfect and wonderful. The vet said she was in perfect weight and quite healthy.
All of them have tartar on their teeth and I've been having a heck of a time. The enzymatic stuff hasn't been working. I've tried kitten toothbrushes, which are still too big. The vet told me to get colgate wisp toothbrushes (the tiny ones) and to soak off the refresher bead that is on them. Once I think I have the flavor part soaked off, to soak them in peroxide for a week to be sure they're clean and sterile. Then I have nice tiny toothbrushes for a ferret mouth. I was also looking into the Proxabrush cleaners. They're meant to go between our teeth like little pipe cleaners, and they have no toothpaste or flavoring.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2014 2:02:41 GMT -5
Sorry I haven't been checking here as often. I came down with a really bad cold over the weekend and haven't really checked online too much. Skeeter's BG is fantastic! I'm glad he's doing so well. I agree with your vet, keep an eye on Trigger, there's a chance it's a mild situation and will go away quickly, but it could also escalate just as easily. This would be a good chance to do those bonding massages every day to check him nodes. As for Rufus, I honestly don't think he needs to lose weight (intentionally at least), they're getting right around the time for their seasonal change so he should be losing a few ounces anyway. Still, 2 lbs is far from an unhealthy weight for a raw fed ferret. Keep in mind raw often helps with muscle mass, and muscle weighs more than fat, so while he might be gaining weight, it's not necessarily fat and unhealthy for him. If you (not the vet, but yourself) are worried he's getting to be overweight, you can always do the hanging test. If his lower body bulges in a pear-shape, he could likely use a bit of weight loss, but if his frame is straight down with no indentations or bulges he is still healthy. It's likely he's just heftier and building the most muscle. So glad Candy did well I can't suggest anything more than your vet did, both the cleaned wisp brush or the cleaners you're talking about (sounds like the cleaners used to clean between braces I think?) should work well.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2014 12:47:01 GMT -5
Did you happen to mention implanting to your vet while you were there? It usually takes them a few weeks to get the implants in so it's best to request the implant earlier than you might need it.
How is everyone doing with appetites? Any changes with what they're accepting to eat? Are you comfortable moving forward in the switch now that Skeeter is stabilized?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2014 14:21:56 GMT -5
The vet said no to the implant right now. She suspects Skeeter was trying to assert dominance. We've had no issues since that last time. Skeeter is kind of "the man" right now. Both Trigger and Rufus flat ferret or roll on their backs when he tries to play, like a submissive dog.
The food situation is good. Candy still won't touch the heart slivers but I've seen the boys nomming on them. I found a pile of spit out bone chunks in Rufus's stash spot, so he's not crunching the bones.
I'm ready for my next steps. What do we do now? Keep in kind that I have at least a month of HT/MPC grinds in the freezer.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2014 17:47:59 GMT -5
Okay, first step will be to get them onto chunks. I don't remember where we left off so I'll give you the process and let me know where in it you are currently. First we need to start with small slivers mixed in grind; once you notice that they aren't leaving any slivers behind you can keep increasing the size until you're getting to chunks about the size of a fingernail. Once they're accepting that, continue to either increase the size of the chunks, or decrease the amount of grind you're mixing the chunks with (whichever works best for you/them). What we want to get to is the stage where they no longer are eating grinds, but it's okay if you still have grinds; once they're completely switched to these chunks and bone pieces you can feed a meal or two of grind a week so it won't go to waste. Once they're eating 1" sized chunks you can start giving them smashed chunks of wings for bone. Just take a tenderizing mallet if you have one and take all your frustrations from a day out on some wings (haha). At first you're going to want to get them extremely pulverized, expose all the marrow (it should tempt them to eat the bone more, ferrets tend to love marrow) and all the bone pieces should be about the size of your starting slivers.
Just a helpful note when slicing the meat for slivers/chunks, I've noticed they have a much easier time maneuvering longer strips rather than fat cubes. They fit in their mouths better so if you notice they're being lazy with larger chunks, just cut them into skinnier strips (but don't necessarily trim any length).
As for Candy not eating the heart slivers; that's fine. It's not a big deal right now (as far as the switch goes), if you can get ground organs they can eat that for a while until chunks aren't a new concept for them anymore. It'd be easier to make the slivers/chunks something more familiar to them like poultry meat, beef, or pork.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2014 17:27:28 GMT -5
Ah ok... I've been slipping in heart slivers. Usually about 1 inch long and very narrow strips. Rufus and Skeeter eat them regularly. Trigger doesn't like them but I can get him to eat them by accident. Candy won't eat them at all. When I scruff and stuff one into her mouth (just the end of the sliver), she gets that weird look, slowly turns her head away and scampers off to a stash spot where she drops it. I always check to see if she "had some for later" but what I always find are a pile of them. She's hoarding them but not eating them. I'm not sure how to get her to eat the slivers. If I cut the heart into smaller chunks (1/4 inch square), she eats them by accident in the soup mixture, as if it is a grind chunk.
They don't like poultry, or beef - literally turn their nose up at it. They didn't really like the pig tongue I tried to give them, but I'll try again next week with some slivers. They weren't eating any slivers last time I tried, now they're more cooperative.
I was thinking I would order some whole rabbits or cavvies from HT or MPC. I have a tenderizing mallet and a giant cleaver, so I'm confident I could carve these up nicely. It took them about two months to go from really soupie soup, to grindy soup and now its grinds with slivers and warm water (so more like a broth than a soup). My guys don't like their meat dry. They want it in warm water especially. Is that weird?
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