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Post by Heather on Jul 27, 2013 20:18:13 GMT -5
Name: Mike HF Forum Username: Afterburner
1. Where did you first learn about natural diets for ferrets?
Or maybe it was Reddit.
Though the Reddit mascot is a little alien...
2. Please describe the type of diet you would like assistance in switching your ferret(s) to. Be sure to include if you are interested in feeding whole prey (live or frozen-thawed) and if you are wanting to FULLY switch to a natural diet or PARTIALLY. If you are unsure what kind of diet you want to put your ferrets on, please express that and we can help you find the best type of natural diet for your ferret.
My goal is to feed both raw frankenprey and whole prey. It remains to be seen which one will be the primary diet and which will be the supplement. I'd like to feed purely whole prey, but my rough calculations suggests that I'd need to be breeding 70 rodents a week to do that, and that may be a challenge for my budget and for the atmosphere in my small apartment. I am definitely planning on breeding SOME rodents, however.
3. Why are you interested in switching your ferrets to a natural diet?
Little buggers are depending on me to take care of 'em. It seems to be an incontestable fact that (A) starches are bad for ferrets; and (B) kibble has starch in it. Ergo: A natural diet.
4. Do you understand that switching your ferret to a natural diet can be a lengthy, arduous process? Its not an overnight switch. It can be a commitment of several weeks or even months. Your HF Mentor will be more then happy to assist you in switchng your ferret(s) to a natural diet, but you need to be equally as commited. If you aren't willing to tough out a potentially lengthy switching process, or if you have major life changes approaching (baby on the way, moving, starting school, getting married/divorced, etc) then it might be a better idea to wait on switching your ferret's diet until you have more time. Are you willing to make the commitment?
Yep, and yep.
5. How many ferrets do you currently have? What are their names? Ages? Genders? Do they have any health problems? Are they overweight? Underweight? How long have you had each ferret for?
I got three. Dogfish (male), Dixie (female), and Chimay (female). They're approximately three years old. They appear healthy and do not have any obvious health problems. Beats me if they're overweight or underweight. Dixie is the heaviest of the three, and my kids called her "Fattie" when they were here a couple weeks ago. But that and $1.50 will get you a cup of coffee at Denny's. Chimay is much, much thinner than than Dogfish or Dixie, but again, I dunno if it's unhealthily thin. She's a tiny, dainty little thing.
I adopted the lot of them at a package discount from a nearby animal shelter three weeks ago.
6. What diet do you currently feed your ferrets? (Please include all treats, supplements, etc)
They came pre-equipped with a bag of Marshall's Premium Diet, and several bags of treats. I threw out the most offensive treats (where the first three ingredients were wheat gelatin, wheat germ, and some other starch) and kept a few bags of Bandit treats of various flavors. They're also crap, but not as bad as the crap I threw out. I did, however, just place an order for some Wysong Ferret 90, and it should be here later in the week.
7. Have you ever tried to switch your ferrets to a natural diet in the past? If yes, what happened?
I've been toying with it off and on over the past week or so. Nothing serious, more just trying to get an idea of where me and the ferrets stand with the whole business. Dogfish and Chimay should be reasonably easy to switch. Dogfish has already indicated a predisposition to the stuff, and Chimay will try it with minimal encouragement. Dixie, on the other hand, shows no interest whatsoever.
UPDATE EDIT: I got Dogfish to eat some raw soup out of a bowl tonight (7/14/2013).
8. What additional information about yourself or your ferrets would you like to share?
Turn ons: Video games, beer, women who dig animals
Turn offs: Advertising, marketing, people who feed pop tarts to their ferrets.
9. How often during the week do you have access to a computer?
I spend an alarming amount of time on my computer. It's safe to say I have it available whenever needed.
10. Please post a picture of each of your ferrets (if possible).
Hi and welcome to the mentoring program (wave) . In a little while your mentor (Sunnyberra) will introduce herself and you can get started on a new adventure in natural ferret care and diets. Please remember to post regularly (daily or as per arranged with your mentor) so that your mentor can assist you move along safely in this adventure. If you experience computer difficulties or are going to be away, please notify your mentor and most of all relax and have fun (dance) . Your mentor is here to help you on this journey. ciao
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2013 21:28:12 GMT -5
Hi, there! I know you've been progressing wonderfully with your guys' transition, with Dogfish being the most accepting. I'll be here to provide help when you need it A little about my experience with ferrets: I have 5 ferrets, now, two of which are rescues. Yogi, Sian, and Rula were all easy switches, since they were kits when I got them. I basically put down some diced chicken breast a few hours after they came home, and voila - eating raw Hiko took a bit longer, though I knew it wouldn't so bad, considering the first thing he did when he was introduced to my guys was still a duck heart right out of Sian's mouth. He was ~3 years when I got him, and he was used to fruit infused kibble and candy for treats. Within a week of having diced meat and ground food sprinkled with crushed kibble he was good to go, and while he will go crazy if he smells something sweet, he does enjoy his raw diet! My newest ferret, and another rescue, is Anya. Her progress is gradual - I've switched her to Epigen 90 and am slowly starting to introduce freeze dried raw foods, so that what she views as food slowly broadens. I know that you're at the paste/soup stage right now, and want to get your other ferrets caught up with Dogfish before progressing. I know I posted this in the other thread, but a way to get them a bit more accepting is to use a blander, easier to chew meat (chicken breast, turkey thighs) for at least their soup/paste. My guys also find gizzards to be quite rich by themselves, as well, and will lead to runnier stool if I feed to often (though they do like them a lot, now). I also remember seeing from the other thread only currently having the heart/gizzard packages? Have you had any luck finding a good source for just hearts? I know there's a wholesaler in Richmond that can order in beef hearts (we've used them a few times for our dogs' meats), but generally rely for online sources for raw food, seeing as around here options are extremely limited.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2013 14:31:50 GMT -5
O HAI.
Didn't know this thread was here. I see it's already a few days old. Thanks to Sherry for linking it in my other thread!
Um, lessee.
Yah, you're pretty much up to date with my current situation. We are making steady progress. They've actually been eating the gizzard meat fairly well, but have turned their noses up at the last of the ground beef paste I had left over from my early batches of paste. I can get them to eat it with some scruffing/encouragement, but even Dogfish is tentative about the ground beef now. Which I find kinda odd. Oh well, only have a couple cubes of it left, so not really a concern.
My current routine is to feed them exclusively raw paste twice a day, and leave kibble in their food bowl overnight every other night. My work schedule is highly variable (the joys of restaurant work are without number), but I try to feed them in the afternoon and again at night. I pull Dixie out of the cage first and feed her. If she's reluctant to eat, I'll scruff 'n stuff her a bit to make sure she's eating something. Then I pull Chimay out and feed her. She'll almost always eat without needing to be scruffed now, but occasionally I need to scruff her to get her started. I'm also scruffing her to try and get her to eat larger chunks. Dogfish, as you know, just wolfs down whatever I put in front of him, unless he's distracted.
So right now, I'd say that Dogfish and Chimay are eating more raw than kibble, and Dixie is probably just going hungry a lot.
I have a local farmer's market that assures me they can get in just chicken hearts for $2 or so a pound. But I put in a request for them three weeks ago and haven't heard back. As long as the hearts/gizzards packages hold out at Kroger's I should be fine. My first package only had two hearts in it, but my second (and most recent) package had 12 or 13. Worst-case scenario, there's a meat wholesaler (Tim's Meats) just a few miles from my house who can get chicken hearts, but only in 40-lb packages. That's a bit much, but it's an option if all else fails.
I'm not sure how structured you want this to be. I feel like I've got a pretty good handle on it so far, but it's great to get advice and help when I need it. If you still want me to post the pictures and the weigh-ins and stuff, I'll do it. Or if you just want to keep this informal like my other thread, that's cool too. Since I want what's best for my weezils, either one works for me.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2013 14:41:25 GMT -5
(haha, I was coming on to the do the same thing, after realizing you probably didn't see this thread being made! Thanks, Sherry ) You are doing really well with the switch, so it doesn't have to be as formal as other threads. However, since Dixie is the most reluctant, I would like us to keep a regular record of her weight and the amount of food she eats, that way we can catch anything early. With the other guys, it'd be better for me to see current pictures, and then you can update "same" or pictures if anything's NOT the same. Typically, with the ones that are very stubborn, they will just do their best to hold out for kibble, if they know they usually get it at some point, the little brats.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2013 16:39:59 GMT -5
Not sure how I would go about determining how much Dixie eats, since they share a communal food bowl which I leave in their cage overnight and when I'm out at work. Most mornings, the bowl is clean. I assume that's mainly Dogfish's doing, with Chimay helping a bit. I assume Dixie doesn't eat any from the bowl in the cage (which is why I make sure to feed her when I get her out), but it's possible that she eats a little. ALTHOUGH! Okay, so I took some pictures of the weezils earlier for this thread. And I wrote out the first paragraph above. And then I fort: "I better weigh the weezils while they're still awake, so I don't have to dig sleeping weezils out from under my bed just to weigh them." So I grabbed Chimay (who was the closest) and went into the living room to get the scale -- and found Dixie chowing down on the raw soup, which I had left in a bowl in our usual feeding spot (on top of the cardboard box the baby gate came in)! Like, she went over there voluntarily without me scruffing her and was eating! And! AND! While I was weighing Chimay and Dogfish, I watched Dixie take a large chunk of gizzard meat and gristly gizzard connective tissue and eat the whole thing! She chewed and chewed and chewed and chewed until it was all gone. Chimay won't even do that! I am amazed! (dance) (dance) (dance) Anyhow, here's pics and stats for my weezils. ChimayCurrent weight: 1 lb 7 oz (down from 1 lb 8 oz last week) DogfishCurrent weight: 2 lbs even (up from 1 lb 15 oz last week). DixieCurrent weight: 1 lb 14 oz (down from 1 lb 15 oz last week). Let me know what else you need from me. I don't think I need to post every day, but I'll try to post two or three times a week with updates, kinda like how I've been doing in the other thread.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2013 15:09:52 GMT -5
So, yeah. Dixie just transmogrified alla the sudden like into a meat eater. Let 'em out of their cage, put down some raw paste for 'em, Dogfish and Chimay had first crack at it. But as soon as they were finished, Dixie moved in and started chowing down. And she's right where her brother is, digging out the big chunks and chewing and chewing until they're gone.
So now Chimay is the one that needs to catch up; she still doesn't like eating anything but the smallest chunks.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2013 21:55:36 GMT -5
That's really great! For the ones that are iffy - communal bowls are good, but when you are home, you can portion out and weigh amounts to make sure they are getting a couple of ounces a day, just until everyone's onboard (a small female will eat 1-2 oz a day, bigger girls or really active girls will eat 2-3 or 4 oz). If Chimay is really reluctant about bigger sizes, then just start introducing them slowly. Get a little bit of food (that you know she can eat in one sitting), dice most of it up into the size she prefers with one or two pieces a bit bigger (not much bigger though), and have her eat. Do that for every meal that you have the time to be slower for. Each time she eats it all, add 1 or 2 more chunks of the bigger size until they are ALL that size, then start over, moving from the bigger chunks to slightly bigger chunks. I think that a meat besides gizzard would be good for that, as well You definitely don't need to post everyday - you're doing a great job with your fuzzbutts. Every 2-3 days is perfectly alright with me
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2013 23:56:59 GMT -5
The latest:
Bought a frozen rat on a whim. Chopped it up with a cleaver. Lordy, what a stench. Discovered later I shoulda cut it open first and scooped out the guts without piercing them, to keep the smell contained. Went back and tried to clean out the guts as best I could from the chopped up rat pieces.
Ran rat through food processor. Made pureed rat. Gave to weezils. BIG negative reaction. All three gagged and tried to spit it out like it was poison. I wasn't expecting them to eagerly eat it, but I figured the worst that would happen would be that I'd have to start over spoon-feeding them to get 'em started. But nope. Definitely a DO NOT WANT from the weezils. I am assuming (perhaps erroneously) that it's due to the fact that I left the guts in, something they would shake out if they were eating a whole rat.
While I was making rat puree, I also made some other raw soup with chicken thigh meat. As of tonight's feeding, they all need to be encouraged to start. Chimay will eat from the spoon but not the bowl. Dogfish and Dixie will eat from the bowl if I get them started first.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2013 0:37:54 GMT -5
Ground whole prey like that tends to be iffy. I know my guys LOVE most whole prey, will not *touch* ground mice or rat at all, but I'd imagine entrails would not be encouraging to them either, I also find that they are finicky with rats, especially the male rats, they typically will not eat them. Mice - not a problem. Weirdos I'm glad that Dixie is continuing on her sudden streak of trying raw, now, that's great, and not surprising that they are slow to start. That does happen as they are starting - different texture and nutrient make up lend themselves to different tastes, which ferrets are notoriously bad at accepting. About how much did Chimay get in the sitting?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2013 15:13:34 GMT -5
She didn't get much in that specific sitting, but all the weezils are back up to full speed where we left off prior to switching to thigh meat. I can put the bowl down, Chimay and Dogfish will chow down first, and when they're done, Dixie will move in and get hers. So everybody seems to be eating pretty robustly. Tomorrow night is weigh night, so we'll see how they've been doing.
My question now is: Where do we go from here? Bigger chunks? Small bones? What's the next step I need to be preparing for?
I also tried raw egg last night. Dixie and Dogfish would lick it off the spoon if I held them, but weren't much interested otherwise. Chimay, on the other hand, LOVED it. I thought for a second she was gonna eat the whole thing out of the bowl. She ate about half the yolk just by herself. (I scrambled the egg, so she got yolk and white, but more yolk than white.)
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2013 20:51:54 GMT -5
Since the girls have a tendency to be hesitant with new things, I would say try bigger chunks. Add some bigger sized pieces in with what they're used to see how they do. Get them used to that, and move up until the chunks are at least 1 inch. When they are situated there, you can introduce bone, organ (if you want to feed organ straight, not mixed or in a soup) and then start adding in some variety Egg is a great treat to give. For it to be balanced, and if you want to feed more often, include the eggshell powder, and voila. A balanced treat for the fuzzies (sorry for the delay - we caught a stray kitten in an Arby's parking lot Friday, so I've been getting her situated and vetted, and my nieces are moving in to go to school here, so things have been hectic and I wasn't able to get on last night!)
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2013 21:17:53 GMT -5
Should I cut the bones up into smaller chunks to introduce them? Or just throw a chicken wing in there and hope for the best?
Also:
Dixie has dropped another ounce. Down to 1 lb 14 oz.
Dogfish and Chimay have both gained an ounce. Dogfish is 2 lb 1 oz, Chimay is back up to 1 lb 8 oz.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2013 21:41:31 GMT -5
You can start with a wing tip, and see, or chop/smash the bones, the latter of which might work better for the girls The key is to make sure they're big enough that the ferts have to chew and shear and don't just try to swallow it (not much issue, really, but there are gulpers out there).
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2013 21:42:34 GMT -5
If Dixie's weight loss is worrisome (and she did seem a bit smaller in the earlier pics you posted, but not bad), some one on one sessions may be in order to catch her up, so she is waiting til the other two get done
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2013 23:13:33 GMT -5
I am not worried about her weight yet. If it keeps going down, though, I'll definitely take Steps(tm).
So tonight, instead of giving them their usual meatpaste, I cut up some chicken thigh, chopped up two hearts (which I accidentally cooked a bit by nuking them to thaw them -- they went from frozen to partially cooked in about 15 seconds), and a chicken liver. These were big chunks. The smallest was about the size of the tip of my finger. The largest ones were about...uh...well, make a circle with your thumb and index finger. About that size. They were flat, but wide. Then I sprinkled the whole business with powdered eggshell and mixed it up a bit.
All three ate a big chunk. (Even Chimay!) And then lost interest. I guess their jaw muscles got tired. But all three kept at it until the chunk they picked out was fully eaten.
Chimay was trying to stash some of the meat under my hutch, so I moved the bowl into their cage. Later on, while we were playing, she kept running over to where I normally feed them their raw meatpaste, and then back to the bowl in the cage, and then back to their normal feeding spot, etc. Kinda like when I keep looking in the refrigerator even though I know there's nothing in there I want to eat. I keep hoping that something will have magically appeared in the fridge since the last time I looked. Chimay was doing the same thing. "Maybe if I run away and come back, these big chunks will turn into meatpaste!"
Anyhow, at least I know they can and will eat big chunks, even if they don't really want to.
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