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Post by Heather on Jul 6, 2013 10:18:30 GMT -5
Name: Marylynn HF Forum Username: jharsika 1. Where did you first learn about natural diets for ferrets? Ferrets for Dummies and research online. 2. Please describe the type of diet you would like assistance in switching your ferret(s) to. Would like to feed BARF as meats are easier to access than anything else. Freeze dried sounds too expensive and hard to access, and whole prey would gross me out. 3. Why are you interested in switching your ferrets to a natural diet? I want to improve my ferrets overall health, stools, coat, and behaviour. One of my ferrets has digestive problems, possibly IBD, with vomiting and loose stools. I want him to get better and vet suggested a more bland diet and moving away from kibble might help. 4. Do you understand that switching your ferret to a natural diet can be a lengthy, arduous process? Yes! 5. How many ferrets do you currently have? What are their names? Ages? Genders? Do they have any health problems? Are they overweight? Underweight? How long have you had each ferret for? I will include behavioural comments as well because sometimes that can be related to health. Aang, male, almost 2 years, possible IBD issues, occassional vomiting, dry heaving, occasional loose stools or constipation. Sometimes cranky with other ferrets, and likes to chew on things like toys and blankets and shoe laces. Have had him for about 8 months. Adopted from an independent pet store where someone ordered them and changed their minds. Good weight. Ferret from Manitoba. Sokka, male, almost 2 years, occasional loose stools or constipation. Have had him about 8 months, got him with Aang. Occasional loose stools. Toe biting naughty bugger. He is a ferret from Manitoba and the biggest one, good weight. Zuko, male, around 2.5 years, occasional loose stools. Have had him about 3 months. Adopted him from a family that had no time for him. He is a Marshall ferret so he will always be smaller than the other two. He smells kinda funky compared to the other two, smell has improved since I adopted him though. 6. What diet do you currently feed your ferrets? (Please include all treats, supplements, etc) Used to feed mix of Ultimate 8-in-1 and Zupreme. Now feed mix of Zupreme and Wellness Core cat food. For treats and training I give pieces of raw/freeze-dried/cooked chicken, hamburger, raw egg yolk, olive oil, pumpkin, FerreTone (only until the bottle runs out), FerretVite (only until the bottle runs out). I have even given them a piece of chicken leg bone to chew on for a minute and they loved it. For supplement I put Vita-Drops in one of 3 water bottles. 7. Have you ever tried to switch your ferrets to a natural diet in the past? If yes, what happened? Sort of. When Aang started having problems for a while they were on Duck Soup. For Aang and Sokka I cooked up chicken, whole eggs, sometimes beef liver, pumpkin, FerreTone, and Pepto Bismol. Then I would blend it all into a paste. Sometimes I would add a bit of kibble. They liked eating that but it was time consuming and messy to make. 8. What additional information about yourself or your ferrets would you like to share? I am the primary care taker for the ferrets. I have 2 dogs, one of whom likes to steal ferret food if he can get at it. The ferrets have their own room and a ferret nation cage, when I'm home they are basically free roaming. Aang and Sokka are both deaf, Zuko is not. Zuko is newest to the group so they are not left along together when I'm not home yet. They still get into fights where Zuko ends up pooping on the floor So he would likely need to be kept separate for feeding. He will probably be the hardest to switch because I had to teach him to even like FerreTone and FerretVite. 9. How often during the week do you have access to a computer? Everyday. 10. Please post a picture of each of your ferrets (if possible). The picture upload isn't working for me for some reason so I just used Imgur if that's OK. Hi and welcome to the mentoring program (wave). In a little while your mentor (Sherry) will introduce herself and you can get started on a new adventure in natural ferret care and diets. Please remember to post regularly (daily or as per arranged with your mentor) so that your mentor can assist you move along safely in this adventure. Also note there may have been some changes in the application and how you should post so please review these before proceeding. If you have any questions feel free to either ask your mentor or any of the admins. If you experience computer difficulties or are going to be away, please notify your mentor and most of all relax and have fun (giggle) . Your mentor is here to help you on this journey. ciao
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2013 8:21:46 GMT -5
Wow that was fast!! Yay
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2013 8:45:30 GMT -5
EDIT: Looks like the pictures got cut off above so I'll just stick the link here, imgur.com/a/2Vxaf/all
I have a couple updates. I tried feeding them some chicken drumsticks/wings and Aang and Sokka went right for them! They didn't eat a whole lot but they seemed to love eating the skin and bone, so it's possible I don't even need to do soup for them. Zuko showed no interest at all. Also I have current weights for everyone
Sokka 1.09kg Aang 1.08kg Zuko 1.17kg (heavier than I expected??)
I have my scale, chicken, and a feeding den. Just need to pick up heart/liver this week.
Based on patching together the info on the forum here's what I imagine a weekly menu would look like (I'm visual and like charts and schedules). Does this look right?
Total for Aang and Sokka, didn't include Zuko.
Sun AM 6 oz chicken heart each (organ) PM 4 oz liver + 4 oz chicken heart
Mon Am- 6 oz ground/chunks of meat (muscle) PM- 6 oz ground/chunks of meat
Tue AM- 6 oz ground/chunks of meat PM- 6 oz ground/chunks of meat
Wed AM - 6 oz chicken wing/neck PM - 6 oz chicken wing/neck (light weight bone-in meat)
Thursday AM - 6 oz chicken wing/neck PM - 6 oz chicken wing/neck (light weight bone-in meat)
Fri AM - 6 oz chicken wing/neck PM - 6 oz chicken wing/neck (light weight bone-in meat)
Sat AM - 6 oz chicken wing/neck PM - 6 oz chicken wing/neck (light weight bone-in meat)
I just wrote chicken but I imagine I'll find some other kinds of meat as well.
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Post by Sherry on Jul 8, 2013 8:48:27 GMT -5
Wow, you beat me to it Going to post my intro anyway Hello there! I'm Sherrylynne, and I'll be your mentor for their switch First, a little about me. I'm 54, and have my own housecleaning business here in Calgary Alberta. I have 4 cats, ranging in age from 11 yrs, to 19(only one would eat raw, unfortunately ). I also have 8 ferrets. Boris and Vincent(rip) came first, two brothers, a sable and albino. Then Sinnead(rip). I got her when she was 4. She passed at almost the age of 8, had adrenal for 3 years, treated with lupron for 2 of those. After that came my first deaf ferret, Lucrezia. A marked DEW. Then two foster ferrets, whom we fell in love with and adopted- Zeus(DIP) and Athena(DIP), both two years old at that time. Both were adrenal, and on lupron until they passed from adrenal related lymphomas at the age of 5. After that, a little abused ferret we called Willow. She was the worst fear biter I've had, although now she's become a sweetie . Then, Emily. 1 month younger than Willow, and those two have bonded strongly. She's the only one Willow wasn't terrified of.Suki is the last one, I swear! She was a little 8 month old darling the pet store was having a hard time selling, so were getting ready to send her back! While transitioning the first four, Boris was my hold out. EVERYTHING I gave him was poison, in his mind . Worst little drama queen I've seen yet . Twisting to get away, gagging, retching- he did all of it! Then one day- he ate it! Every single piece on the plate ! Those four haven't looked back. The next two for transitioning were the fosters. Until we adopted them, I could only supplement with raw. So in order not to cause unnecessary tummy upsets(mixing kibble and raw too closely can cause some problems- more about that later), I'd give them raw one day, and kibble on a different day. So, by the time we adopted, they had no problem with 100% raw diet. With Willow, I brought her home, and she flatly refused to eat the totally ferret kibble, so I went back to the pet store and got her a small bag of the crap they were feeding them there, and brought it home. I tried to give her some, but she just upset the dish. So- I tried her with some chicken breast. She ate it up! Hasn't had kibble since . Emily came to us as a raw fed ferret, so no issues there. Suki was another kibble head, but caging her in the daytime with Miss Emily showed her how to eat raw. And now- we've added Mr. Frodo, who essentially switched himself second day he was here That's me and mine in a nutshell The reason I started looking a raw feeding was something my vet said to me. I was, at the time, giving them small pieces of fruit for treats. She told me that was VERY bad for them, and in fact, some studies have started to link early feeding of sugars with insulinoma later in life. So- I started thinking. Kibbles are full of carbs. It's all those grains/veg/fruits in them. Those are converted to sugars by the body. To me then, sugar= potential insulinoma. So, I started checking out various diets. I had no idea what an obligate carnivore was at the time. I found out! Not much wonder there was soooo much poop in the box! I may as well have been tossing my money in there. They can't process anything that's not meat based! So I feed meat Their fur is softer, their energy levels are amazing- no mad rushes then crashing. Even my three year old's teeth are amazing. No plaque whatsoever Healing is faster, and if they do get ill, they have more reserves to rely on than when they were just kibble fed! And there is a LOT LESS POOP!!!! Yay! I'm looking forward to helping your little ones get on a much healthier diet, and having fun while we're at it We have now adopted 4 more ferrets from the local rescue, bringing our numbers back up to 10 again 7m old Cody as well as a bonded trio of 2yr old males, Judge, Indie, and Odin(also adrenal). All are also now fully raw fed
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Post by Sherry on Jul 8, 2013 8:55:51 GMT -5
Okay, let's get this show on the road! That is fantastic that two have already started going for whole meats- I'm amazed! Their switch, needless to say, isn't going to take very long With Zuko you may need to start with soup. However. Since he *might* be IBD, he may also have a problem with chicken. It's not uncommon. I'm hoping his problem was really with the kibble, but we'll see Something that will help Aang and Sokka is to slash the meat on the drumstick and wing. It will give them something to grip on. If possible in the feeding den attach the meat to a shower hook so they have something to pull against. It also serves the purpose of keeping the meat in one place, meaning less stashing With that menu the ratio is correct. However- you are going to want to split up the meals if you don't want REALLY bad poops Sunday through to Wednesday Mix it up so there is a bone meal each day. For Zuko try dicing some tiny slivers of meat and then powdering some kibble and basically "bread" the meat bits. See how he does with that. Also remove the kibble about 3 hours before offering the meat. That way he'll work up and appetite.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2013 9:02:32 GMT -5
Nice to meet you Sherry , though I have definitely seen you all over the forum already (giggle). You know a lot already about my pets from my application, so I guess I can give my own little intro. I live in PEI. I work full time in a dumb call center, and part-time on my family's farm. We raise organic veggies, free range chicken, grass fed beef, and have some horses there as well. The farm has its own two dogs. I'm hoping my mom will supply me with free range eggs and chicken for the ferrets.
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Post by Sherry on Jul 8, 2013 9:10:21 GMT -5
Oh that would be excellent! Ferrets who present with IBD and who have a chicken sensitivity frequently do better with organic chicken. It seems the grains and antibiotics given to the birds from the large factory farms are the main problem.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2013 11:25:04 GMT -5
It's ok to post whenever right? I know you are probably busy so I don't mind if you take a while to respond. Yesterday I didn't refill their kibble dishes so they'd work up an appetite. They were pretty excited to see me this morning haha. I offered Aang (he's the one with tummy troubles) and Sokka about 5 1/2 oz. I chopped up chicken leg and thigh. It's ok to cut leg/thigh bone in half? I cut the meaty bits up a bit smaller as well. I let them eat until they started stashing then I took it away. Is that the correct thing to do? When I weighed what was left it was around 3 oz. Seemed like Aang ate more than Sokka. I'll offer the leftovers tonight. I offered Zuko small pieces of chicken meat covered in kibble. He was pretty unsure about that. So I tried 'stuffing it' he licked at it and even chewed on a piece for a while but other than that he was grossed out so I took that away and put the kibble back. The bits of meat. Are the pieces too big? I wasn't very good at grinding up the kibble. www.flickr.com/photos/jharsika/9249711134/Aang and Sokka eating up!! www.flickr.com/photos/jharsika/9246903315/The size of the chunks I offered. Too big? www.flickr.com/photos/jharsika/9246904253/Hah here's a short video of how Zuko was eating his food. Edit: I was trying to embed the images because the image uploader doesn't work for me but it kept deleting my code :/
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Post by Sherry on Jul 9, 2013 13:45:54 GMT -5
You can post as often as you want, no problem Daily is even better! I'll have to wait until I get home to see any pics as they often don't come through on the phone. But in case they didn't show up, are you using the IMG code from a photos sharing site? And Zuko was doing really well in that video!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2013 20:36:01 GMT -5
Zuko just kinda chewed on it then left it. As soon as I find hearts I'm going to put together soup. Is it OK that I am leaving some kibble out for Zuko? They are all free in their room together now so they occasionally will eat some of it I imagine. I remember reading that could cause a sore tummy.
Aang and Sokka ate another roughly 2 oz total together without any stashing (I'm pretty sure) tonight. Since they seem to have been just going right for it, do you think I can just jump right into feeding them what they would be getting on a fully raw diet? Or should I ease into it alternating between kibble and raw? So far have not fed anything other than chicken so I don't know if there's anything they'll refuse.
Can you explain what you mean by mix up the meals? I'd like to see what an actual meal plan should look like then if what I wrote above is incorrect.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2013 20:38:04 GMT -5
Oh and yes I was using an img code from both the button when you create a post, that didn't work, and from like the 'embed your image' link that they provide on uploading sites.
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Post by Sherry on Jul 9, 2013 22:10:45 GMT -5
He'll learn how to scissor bits off fairly quickly It does sometimes take a bit. With the girls definitely try moving ahead. Keep in mind it's going to take them a while before they'll have the strength to bite through bones. They have to build up some jaw strength No reason NOT to try them with it though! You can also look at introducing some heart and a mother protein as well By "mixing it up" I simply mean not to have all the muscle,heart, and organ meals together. Bone is what helps firm up their stools, and organ or blood rich meals like heart make it much looser. So by alternating with an organ meal/bone meal, heart meal/bone meal, etc helps to keep them from having diarrhea. In fact, I give a bone meal before and after both organ and heart.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2013 14:34:10 GMT -5
So yesterday Aang and Sokka together ate about 1oz in the morning and 1.5 oz in the evening. This morning I was in a hurry so I put in some rib bone and breast cut up roughly 3oz, I found only 1 chunk stashed just now. Rib bone is ok right? They just might eat around it so it's not considered 'bone in' right?
Going to pick up shower hooks to try that as well as some other meats/organs today.
Last night I took some time to divide up portions of the chicken I already had and gizzard to put in the freezer. Oh and I cut up beef liver for the future. That stuff smells so bad blech. At least it's cheap! I want to avoid spending too much time preparing their meals as it would discourage me. Any tips?
Also can you tell me what the meal plan would look like?
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Post by Sherry on Jul 11, 2013 17:44:41 GMT -5
That's a good amount for them to eat in the summer. As for rib bone, it depends on what kind as to whether or not they can eat it. As for prep, I buy in bulk whenever I can, chop, measure, weigh, and baggie. Muscle meats are all put into one box, bone in into another, heart baggies in a bag by themselves. Kidney/liver portioned out, baggied, and in a bag alone. Generally buying in bulk I can get a months worth at a time easily. And with practice, it only takes about an hour to do a month's worth of meals Also, since bulk meats are frozen when you get them, I thaw, and as the meat thaws(depending on what it is) I will try to pull off what I can to chop etc. Here is a basic menu plan, along with descriptions of what most ferrets can eat: holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/146/meat-bone-organ-weekly-menu
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2013 18:32:02 GMT -5
Sorry, that's what I am getting confused about. I was going by that plan when I drafted what I wrote above but bone was not mixed up enough? So I was assuming 2 meals a day,totaling 2-5 oz per day- settling on roughly 12oz for 2-3 ferrets just to be generous I'd rather have too much than too little when buying. 2 meals a day for a week, that's 14 meals. 9 meals consumable bone + 4 meals muscle meats + 1 meal liver/organ=14 Does that mean I should have one consumable bone meal per day? If I rework that then... Sun AM 6 oz light weight bone-in meat PM 4-6 oz liver + 4-6 oz chicken heart (2 oz of each per ferret) Mon Am- 6 oz ground/chunks of meat (muscle) PM-6 oz light weight bone-in meat Tue AM-6 oz ground/chunks of meat PM-6 oz light weight bone-in meat (eg chicken wing/neck) Wed AM -6 oz ground/chunks of meat PM - 6 oz light weight bone-in meat Thursday AM - 6 oz light weight bone-in meat PM - 6 oz light weight bone-in meat Fri AM - 6 oz chicken heart PM - 6 oz light weight bone-in meat Sat AM - 6 oz light weight bone-in meat PM - 6 oz light weight bone-in meat On another note I called the butcher shop and they have to order in chicken hearts for me, they won't be here until next Thursday I have to call some other grocery stores to see who has some, it's been hard to find. Weird because I saw some in the grocery store a couple months ago.
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