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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2013 12:25:16 GMT -5
I have almost no selection of organs here, only liver, tripe, rarely heart or kidney. Tripe they will likely not eat, and if it's the white kind (bleached) you shouldn't bother feeding it anyway, only the green tripe. My problem is I have a boy who seems intolerant to beef, starts projectile vomiting minutes after eating it. All the organs available here are beef, so we have to feed commercial barf to ensure a balanced diet. Not fun. Heart is also considered a muscle meat, in case you did not know that and should not be considered an organ meal, but it is a vital thing for them to have regardless. Gizzards are also considered muscle meats even though they a re technically an organ. If you have access to lung, thymus, brain, kidney, spleen you can use any of these. Also the reproductive organs like uterus (blech!). Regular fat or fatty meat is indeed important as you know, it can be beef fat (suet or sometimes called tallow), fatty cuts of pork (unprocessed pork belly is great), chicken skin, duck is a great fatty meat as well. Fatty acids like those found in salmon or krill are also great for them, if you can supply safe fish and get them eating it it'll only benefit them. I spoke to some of the other mentors and they agree that Mr. Von doom may just be a little shell shocked right now from everything that has happened and to give him time, he will probably pick up on his appetite. They also said hand feeding as you've been doing for him would be beneficial. No one wants him eating doom nuggets, if you can avoid it at all do so but don't starve him if that's all he wants.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2013 22:26:01 GMT -5
Ooh repro organs are a hit with the dog... Think raw bully stick lol We have access to lung spleen, thymus, soon rabbit/chicken brain, so they will get a decent selection. We get mackerel for the dog when he'll actually eat it, so I'll likely try that with them as well. It has organs and all. Today Loki had venison chunks, pork chunks, and some Cornish game hen parts along with a chicken gizzard half. About 6-7 oz total. He's also coming down with a cough, i expeted as much since he has been in close proximity since ay one. Doomie is getting over it and hasn't coughed in 24 hours or more now. I'd imagine his appetite will suffer. A little bit, he's also been sleeping more, I'm sure that is because he's a wee sickly right now though. Doom ate soup again, about 5 oz total for today, not very willingly I might add lol. Still hand feeding, and fought her pretty much every feed time today lol... He also grabbed a few pieces of kibble on his own while we were out for a few hours, however he didn't mess with his soup.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2013 22:48:49 GMT -5
The other mentors are suggesting a vet trip for mr doomy if he hasn't improved soon, lack of energy and appetite in a kit especially are generally not too good. I hope he just has a flu or something simple like that, though they can take weeks to get rid of. Is the soup always a thick paste like I saw in the video? Might be worth it to try thinning it down with a little extra water, see if he'll lap it up?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2013 23:12:01 GMT -5
Yeah the soup is thicker i thinned it down and he's refusing to eat still, it's just harder to hand feed a liquid soup... His coughing is gone, energy is good, he sleeps just a little longer than Loki normally does, it's just that he won't eat on his own we are checking into a new vet, we haven't been at all happy with our old one, at the first of this week we are going to take him. I just can't fathom how he has made it this far if he can't feed himself... It's not like, they were hand feeding at the store or farm... Ugh. I am going to crunch up some kibble and mix with water as well and see If he touches any of it. ETA: He won't touch any of what I've done, I put a piece of kibble In his mouth he ran to his litter box and dropped it in then started sliding his face on the bedding... I don't know what to do about his feeding, as it stands I stay up till about 2-3 to make sure he is fed and get up at 5-6 feed again, feed at 11-12... It can't keep up doe much longer that way for me at least, i can't imagine why he doesn't know what food is or how to eat on his own...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2013 7:15:48 GMT -5
I'm sure he does, but it's likely he's sick and maybe his tummy isn't feeling good so he's refusing. Syringe feed him soup or baby food even if you have to and of course you're getting him into the vet from the sounds of it ASAP. You may need to syringe feed him water too if he's not eating, he's probably not drinking either.
In the interim you can try something to soothe his stomach and see if that peaks his appetite at all. The best thing to use is carafate/sulfacate, however if you don't happen to have any (prescription only) you could use some pepto in a pinch. They changed the formula and it has something in it, I forget what that is not great for ferrets, but for a short term use it would be ok. I wouldn't use it long term to treat an ulcer say, I'd use carafate.
For dosing, my vet had me use .3 ml of carafate on a 2lb ferret, so for a baby I'd use a lot less, maybe a half to a third of that. You could try calling the vet if they're open and asking for a more precise dose based on his weight.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2013 12:02:37 GMT -5
I can try a few drops of peptones, and see if that will help. My wife fed him this morning and she said he was drinking some of the soup thinned out on a little lid, were using those since they are more open and he doesn't seem to like putting his head into bowls... He ate on his own, I wouldn't have believed it if I wouldn't have seen it with my own eyes. He was eating the thinned soup mixed with ground kibble, but was mostly going for the soup. I'll keep giving him a selection till our appointment comes up. What is the minimum they need to eat, so at least we know how much he needs to eat and drink to stay healthy? He drinks...a lot. He plays in it, and then he drinks, and visa versa. I see him drinking way more frequently than even Loki. Old it be that we were just keeping him too full so he wasn't eating between feelings? Either way h*ll see the vet to rule out anything major, hopefully he's just a little sickly from the cold he probably spread through the house lol! Me, my wife, and Loki.... All sick from him lol Doom has eaten 3-4 oz today so far, soup, and kibble soup. Loki has eaten a chicken gizzard (whole) and a cgh thigh, he'll have some venison heart today, along with the cgh drummie ETA; we weigh reps them today again, I keep forgetting we've only had doomie for 5 days, but he's up to 1lb 8 3/4 oz so he's gaining weight. Loki.... Is up to 2lbs 1oz... Fat little thing.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2013 13:33:32 GMT -5
Gaining weight is good! If you have a saucer or plate with a bit of a lip, try thinner soup served on that. Some ferrets indeed hate bowls. Kits should still be hungry within a few hours, even after a large feeding. I cannot stress how ravenous a baby ferret normally is, it's astonishing. Like where is he putting all that food astonishing. Playing in water is pretty normal, they usually grow out of it. See the stores and farms give them those shitty water bottles, so when they encounter an actual water dish or bowl... it's a novelty. One they must splash, paw at, dig in and bob toys in. Eventually they'll get bored with it. Then you have ferrets that will regularly bathe using the water. I have one boy who regularly dunks his head in the dish to wash his face, another that likes to dunk his head in the bowl and blow bubbles out of his nose. (Cuteness overload!) They'll also dunk food in the water bowl or leave it in there to soften up. Ew. Kibble fed ferrets usually drink a lot more than raw fed ferrets obviously since their food is so dry. He's not really used to raw yet so he will probably be thirsty for a while yet. It's hard to say what the minimum is for them to stay healthy. Some adult ferrets will only eat an ounce or two a day in the warmer months, adult males in winter have been known to down 4-6 ounces, occasionally more in a day. My crew seems to eat no more than 2-3 ounces per ferret a day usually. A baby should probably be eating 2-3 times what an adult will be, so 4-6 ounces a day is a reasonable amount I figure. More won't hurt if they'll eat it.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2013 14:16:08 GMT -5
Lol I love watching them play in the water, it just makes a bit of a mess so it's no biggie! Loki frequently drops food in it, it's so nasty lol. We're putting at least five ounces into doomie a day, so were not letting him waste away! Loki...he likes beef heart... He almost ate 2 ounce within just 5-10 minutes... I'm still putting a little bit of the soup on it just to make it familiar, however, the gizzard didn't have anything on it and he scarfed none the less, should I keep doing it, or is it just going to turn into a crutch? Just so I have a little idea of how a fuzzy vet trip will go, how do they normally diagnose colds, etc? He doesn't have any discharge from his nose, he's lively, he ran around like a maniac for over two hours straight today ate some then crashed under the couch with Loki.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2013 17:28:54 GMT -5
If he's willing to take stuff without the soup I'd wean him off of him, though it's good to feed him some every once in a while to make sure he still recognizes and likes it in case he ever gets sick and needs a more liquid diet.
Technically ferrets supposedly don't get "colds", they get flus. When mine had some sort of flu like bug they were all very lethargic, their noses were hot and dry, they barely ate and their noses were very runny. They also sounded very stuffed up. Typically a ferret with a bug will be lethargic, lack of appetite, possible fever and have some sort of discharge, though not always. There's very little you can do for them, same as a human. It's not "curable", you have to let it run its course and offer plenty of food, liquids and rest. I gave mine warmed up water and put them in a steamy bathroom to unstuff them- what a difference it makes! Instant dooking about.
If the vet is worried about it being something else he could ask to do a fecal or blood test, maybe prescribe some antibiotics if he thinks it's an infection rather than a flu.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2013 17:47:07 GMT -5
I was thinking a fecal would be good, I'm not a fan of antibiotics without cause, but if it will make him feel better, then all the better.
Loki ate a full heart meal, 2oz, and I gave him a cgh neck, with a ton of skin and fat on it, it looked tasy, the cgh heart, if he wants more later ill give him some venison and pork fat.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2013 19:07:50 GMT -5
Doom ate a little on his own. Is there a reason he vibrates when he eats? One more question. I saw people talking about how ferrets appetites decrease certain times of the year. Would baby doomie have this issue, or this does not pertain to babies?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2013 11:06:59 GMT -5
People are saying ferrets vibrate while eating because they are excited, it tastes good.
The seasonal appetite changes are tied into shedding for the seasons, since they are babies and will not have a proper shed until the late fall, the spring weather/shedding should not affect them. Normally in nature ferrets would breed in the spring and their offspring would be born sometime in late spring to mid summer, so maybe May-Julyish in this hemisphere. So baby ferrets technically shouldn't even be around for the spring shed, it's just that the farms manipulate their breeders artificially so they can have kits all year round.
I'm not a fan of antibiotics either, but a lot of vets seem to be really med happy. /sigh
Have you tried introducing either of the boys to something tasty they can think of as a treat to help bribe them? Oil, raw egg etc?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2013 11:43:00 GMT -5
We have t been able to really get them to try much from our hands, doomie would probably be more open to it, I've scuffed Loki with olive oil, but he acted like I'd poisoned him lol!
We have coconut oil as well, we give it to our dog and stuff, I k omits not an animal fat, but neither is olive oil so would that be good Too? We have salmon oil and I'll try an egg with them, do you scramble it?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2013 14:59:39 GMT -5
Coconut oil is fine as an occasional treat like olive oil, I might not give it all the time since it's plant based, but it does offer good benefits. I'll usually scruff and dab some on a nose or tongue to get them to taste if they don't trust my hands enough to lick it off of me. (Though they should.)
I would just try raw egg- crack it, dump it into a dish or bowl and leave it with them. Possibly scruff and rub some onto his nose or tongue to encourage him. I've tried cooked and it never went over at all with them.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2013 15:35:39 GMT -5
We got some feretone lol it's a hit with Loki... Shocker huh? Von doom is indifferent with it, he was so high energy today lol while Loki was busy getting a dab off of his belly he doomie was betting some ear bites in. Loki will follow the bottle around now... I'll see if they will eat something like coconut oil, or olive oil, I'll do an egg for Loki tonight, I'll split it between them, my wife shot some video of doomie eating on his own, she had three different kinds of food in there and he kinda bounced from one to the other lol! But she did just let him eat instead of feeding every couple of hours, maybe he was just kept too full by us lol...
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