Ferrets with stones - input

[Deleted]

Hello everyone,

So Heather mentioned the growing trend of stones in ferrets. We are a small list, and we have seen a definitely increase in the number of ferrets with this issue. So to get a better idea of why this is happening, filling out this form can help all of us see if there is a trend/connection between these cases. Just post the answers in this thread


Ferrets Name:
Age:
Breeder: (insert farm name, such as Marshalls, RC, PV, or private breeder name)
Stone type: (if identified)
Symptoms ferret exhibited:
Food ferret was on: (if they were on multiple foods, please list them, and indicate how long they were on each)
Solution: (if any)


Hopefully, we can collect some info and see if there are any similarities between the cases.

[Heather]

Great idea Jackie
ciao

[Deleted]

What a great idea!

[Heather]

I will lead but unfortunately, it's not going to provide much in the way of solution or correlations.

Ferrets Name: Azrael
Age: Approximately 2 - 3 yrs
Breeder: RC farm
Stone type: Struvite possible cause bladder infection, possible adrenal.
Symptoms ferret exhibited: Total blockage
Food ferret was on: Unknown kibble.
Solution: Clavamox BID x28 days.
Raw diet as per prescribed by vet
ciao

[Deleted]

just a side note. paris, my toy poodle who we got at 5 1/2 months, had struvite crystals nonstop until she was 1 yr. as soon as we switched her to raw, she no longer had problems crystals. my biggest question/wounder would be if all this is due to grains! at least when they are struvite crystals.

[Sherry]

If you want to bring in others, our cat had both struvite and stones. He ate a variet if prescription diets by Hills

[Deleted]

This is interesting! My first ferret, Scout, passed of stones only two months after I rescued him. I assume they were cystine because of circumstance - he had been fed Ol' Roy dog food and I switched him to Evo. But I agree, there seems to be a rise of cases, whether adrenal-related or diet-related, it would be interesting to know.

The American Ferret Association is conducting a ferret census and we're hoping to get plenty of in-depth data on these issues and other health topics, so it will be interesting to compare the results with your project.

[Deleted]

I think this is a great idea, and I so hope we can figure this out for all future fuzzies!

FERRETS NAME: Emmett
AGE: 3.5yo
BREEDER: Marshalls
STONE TYPE: unknown (no surgery so no stones to test - but the doc thought cystine for some reason)
SYMPTOMS FERRET EXHIBITED: Before his fateful day, for about a month or so, when he would urinate it would be an excessive amount (compared to the normal small puddle). On his fateful day - in the morning he seemed fine, then later that night he walked with a strange gait, seemed 'off', and would strain to to potty and nothing would come out. He would continue to strain over and over (at the ER) until his bladder was expectorated with a needle (sorry but forgot the clinical term for this) and you could tell he was very uncomfortable and in lots of pain. He would make strange noises, open his mouth in an odd way, hiss, moan, and slump to the floor after straining for a while. Lethargic and wouldn't eat or drink.
FOOD FERRET WAS ON: In order from 'birth' to death: Marshalls Premium - um, I think a month or two when he first came home; Zupreem - solely for 1 year, then mixed with Evo for 1 year; Evo Ferret - 1 year; Hills Prescription Science Diet d/d Venison - 2ish months; Hills Prescription Science Diet z/d - 1ish month; Royal Canin Hypoallergenic Rabbit - 5ish months.
SOLUTION: Euthanasia was recommended. The only way he could survive the mass amounts of kidney, bladder, and urethra stones he had would have been to perform a PT (to create a new urethra), open the bladder and remove those stones, and remove the kidney that was enlarged and the ureter blocked by a huge stone. Then hope that the remaining kidney would not pass the stones inside it and would function well enough to allow him to live. To help with the stone issue he would have then been put on a special diet and medication, but what type of diet and medications are unknown to me as we did not opt for surgery. DIP Emmett!

FERRETS NAME: Gir
AGE: 2.5yo
BREEDER: Marshalls
STONE TYPE: unknown. Though I was told they were going to send the stones out for testing, but in my grief forgot all about this and I don't think they actually did it
SYMPTOMS FERRET EXHIBITED: Just like Emmett. Up until his fateful day for an unknown amount of time he would drink lots of water and pee a lot. Fine up until his urethra became fully blocked. Then, straining to potty, making unusual noises, in obvious pain, lethargic, wouldn't eat, kept attempting to potty.
FOOD FERRET WAS ON: In order from 'birth' to death: Marshalls Premium - 1ish month; Zupreem and Evo Ferret mix - 1year; Hills Prescription Science Diet d/d Venison - 2ish months; Hills Prescription Science Diet z/d - 1ish month; Royal Canin Hypoallergenic Rabbit - 3ish months.
SOLUTION: Euthanasia. When Gir became sick we did not know what we knew with Emmett. So, we quickly scooted him into surgery for a PT to address his immediate issues of blocked urethra and mass amounts of bladder stones. They attempted to first flush the urethra stones back up into his bladder, but this was unsuccessful due to too many stones. After the PT was performed and xrays rechecked, they found that both of his ureters were blocked by stones, his kidneys were rapidly failing, and he was leaking urine into his body from multiple lacerations to his ureters and urethra from the stones. DIP Gir!

I would like to add 2 things to this thread:

First - There was an unusual 'symptom' that Gir presented that I wanted to bring to lite here just in case this is a sign of something - The intial day Gir was taken to the ER I noticed a strange rash-like mark under his nose, like a dark line going from his nostrils to and under his upper lip. Over his last 2 days this 'rash' became larger and darker. The vet had no idea what it was, but I am thinking it was an indicator of renal failure. Not sure if this might help some with identifying renal failure in their ferrets (if indeed this 'rash' is what this was). However, I will mention that I think that if I am right about this 'rash' that when it shows up there is no hope to save the kidneys as Gir's renal failure was advanced by this stage.

Second - We should also add to the lists any treats/vitamins the ferret receives as well. That being said, for both Gir and Emmett:

Ferretone - 1-3 drops for weekly nail trimmings; 1-2 drops once every week or two for treat purposes
Olive Oil - 1 tsp daily
Random store bought treats and vitamins - these were occassionaly given when they were all in their first year with us, but haven't given them any in almost 2 years. Just thought I should mention it.

[Deleted]

ferreholic: I am kind of surprised they didn't test the urine for what TYPE you were dealing with. it would most likely shown the crystals which are much smaller than stones. each type of problem has a different treatment.

just noticed this was on another thread but put it here also.
EVERYONE: this is what I found:

All About Bladder Stones In Ferrets
An inappropriate diet is one factor that causes bladder stones in ferrets.
By Jerry Murray, DVM
Posted: October 27, 2008, 5 a.m. EDT

Can ferrets get bladder stones? Yes, they can — just like cats, dogs and people do. Ferrets are actually at risk for three different types of bladder stones, so let’s go over what bladder stones are, what causes them, how to recognize them, how to treat them and how to prevent them.

What Are Bladder Stones?
Bladder stones form in the urinary bladder when minerals such as magnesium, ammonium, phosphorus and calcium precipitate out of the urine. These minerals form crystals. The crystals then join together and form stones. The stones can be very small like tiny pebbles or quite large like a golf ball. In some cases only one stone forms, but in others numerous small stones develop. One unusual type of bladder stone develops from cystine, an amino acid.

What Causes Bladder Stones?
Three different types of bladder stones are known to occur in ferrets, and each has a different cause. The most common type by far is the struvite stone; the second most common type is the calcium oxalate stone; the uncommon type is the cystine stone.

Struvite Stones
Three main factors cause struvite stones: diet, urinary pH and bacterial infections of the bladder.

The two main components of the diet involved in struvite stone occurrence are the source of the protein and the level of magnesium. The source of the protein is important because this affects the pH of the urine. Animal-based protein such as chicken, turkey, pork, egg and fish have the amino acids methionine and cystine in them. These two amino acids contain sulfur. When these two sulfur-containing amino acids are metabolized, they produce sulfuric acid. When sulfuric acid is excreted into the urine, it lowers the pH of the urine. On the other hand plant-based protein like corn gluten, wheat gluten, soy protein isolates and soybean meal do not have those two sulfur-containing amino acids. Thus plant-based protein does not acidify the urine, and the pH of the urine raises higher than normal (above 6.4). Struvites are unlikely to form when the pH of the urine is acidic (below 6.4).

Struvites are composed of three things: magnesium, ammonium and phosphate; therefore, avoid excessive amounts of these three things in the ferret’s diet. Magnesium is the most important one to limit.

As previously mentioned, urinary pH is an important factor in struvite formation. When a ferret eats a diet with mainly plant-based protein, the pH of the urine rises above the normal range. A pH above 6.4 can cause struvite crystals and stones to form. This is why it is so important to feed a high-quality, meat-based ferret food or kitten food instead of a low-quality, plant-based non-ferret food.

Bacterial bladder infections from Staphylococcus or Proteus species can raise the urine pH to 8 or above. Struvite stones can form in less than one day when the pH is that high. Bladder infections are most common in unneutered jills during the breeding season and during pregnancy, and in ferrets with adrenal gland disease. Thus, it is important to use an appropriate antibiotic as soon as possible if a ferret has a bladder

Calcium Oxalate Stones
Calcium oxalate stones are very different than struvite stones. The two main factors that lead to oxalate stones are diet and pH of the urine. These stones are formed from calcium and oxalate, so a ferret should avoid a diet with excessive calcium and oxalate. Other items to avoid include treats like milk, cheese and dairy products. Also, avoid supplements that contain excess calcium.

Oxalate is formed from the metabolism of plant-based protein, which contains the amino acids glycine and serine. It can also be formed from the metabolism of vitamin C. Increases in urine oxalate levels promote calcium oxalate stones more so than increases in calcium. This is another great reason to avoid plant-based protein! Calcium oxalate stones are more likely to develop in acidic urine, but they can form in alkaline urine too. [Although meat-based protein makes the urine acidic, it doesn’t cause oxalate to form, so calcium oxalate stones shouldn’t form when a ferret is fed a meat-based diet. – Eds.]

Cystine Stones
Cystine stones are uncommon and uniquely different. These stones are a result of a genetic defect in the kidneys. The kidneys do not reabsorb the amino acid cystine. The kidneys may also have a problem reabsorbing three other amino acids: ornithine, lysine and arginine. Because cystine is the least soluble amino acid, the stone is composed almost entirely of cystine. Cystine solubility depends on urine pH, and cystine stones are more likely to form in acidic urine.

Recognizing A Bladder Stone
The signs of a bladder stone in ferrets can include straining to urinate, vocalizing in pain when urinating, urinating small amounts frequently, dribbling urine, wet fur around the prepuce or vulva, and discoloration of the urine. Occasionally the ferret will be totally unable to urinate and rapidly becomes lethargic and depressed.

Most of the time the bladder stone can be palpated by a veterinarian, but a radiograph (X-ray) should be done to confirm the presence of a stone or stones, to visualize the location of the stone or stones, and to look for other urinary problems such as a prostate problem in males.

Different Than Dogs & Cats
Although ferrets are similar to dogs and cats when it comes to bladder stones, they are more sensitive to plant-based protein and elevated urinary pH.

When it comes to treating bladder stones, it is a little bit harder in ferrets. Specialized diets for the various types of bladder stones are available for dogs and cats, but there are no diets specifically made for ferrets with bladder stones.

Cystine stones are tricky because ferrets require a high protein diet for maintenance, but need a low protein diet to avoid forming more cystine stones.

Treatment For Bladder Stones
Once a bladder stone has been found, surgery is recommended to remove it. The surgery is usually a relatively simple procedure in ferrets unless the stone is located in the urethra. Intravenous or subcutaneous fluids should be used to produce and dilute the urine. This helps to flush out the bladder. An antibiotic is also used to clear up any bladder infection.

After surgery, the bladder stone should be analyzed to determine exactly what type of stone it is. The Minnesota Urolith Center through the College of Veterinary Medicine at the University of Minnesota provides stone analysis at no cost. Once the stone has been analyzed, an appropriate diet change can be made to prevent future stone formation.

If the stone is a struvite stone, then two things need to be adjusted. The protein source of the diet needs to be changed to a high-quality meat-based protein, and the pH of the urine needs to be lowered. If the diet change does not lower the urinary pH, then a urinary acidifier like dl-methionine can be added to the diet.

An antibiotic such as amoxicillin (Amoxi-drops or Clavamox drops), cefadroxil (Cefa drops), cefovecin (Convenia), trimethoprim-sulfa (Tribrissen), enrofloxacin (Baytril), or marbofloxacin (Zeniquin) can be used to eliminate a bacterial infection in the bladder.

If the stone is a calcium oxalate stone, then the protein in the diet needs to be changed to a high-quality meat-based protein. Plant-based protein must be eliminated to prevent oxalate from being excreted into the urine. In some cases, potassium citrate may be needed to raise the pH of the urine.

If the stone is a cystine stone, then a reduction in protein is needed to reduce the amount of cystine in the diet and in the urine.

After proper treatment, a ferret with a bladder stone will soon be back to its usual Jumping-Jack-Flash self and should enjoy a normal life span.

Dr. Jerry Murray practices at the Animal Clinic of Farmers Branch in Dallas, Texas. He currently has two senior ferrets, Bam-Bam and Mr. Slate, and one hyperactive Rottie puppy, Katarina.

[Deleted]

Ferrets Name: Jack
Age: Actual age unknown, guess was 1 - 2 years at age of stones
Breeder: Marshalls
Stone type: cysteine
Symptoms ferret exhibited: Unable to urinate
Food ferret was on: Halo cat food - kibble
Solution: Emergency surgery to remove stones followed by a switch to a raw diet

[Deleted]

Noah is 2-3 years old, a rescue on which I have no prior history. He was abandoned in February with as all amount of Marshall's food, so that's the best guess I can give to his previous diet. He now eats a mix of ferret Epigen 90 and ferret evo. A few months ago he started urinating in small little amounts and running from box to box. I am a vet tech and Noah comes to work with me so there was no hesitation of treatment. We did X-rays to find no stones, did an in house urine test, and spun down the urine and read the sediment in the slide. What we found were Struvite crystals in the urine and a uti. He was treated with Baytril for the infection and it has not occurred since. I have no doubt in my mind however, that had i not noticed it that morning and brought him in that day we would have had a more serious problem. Not the same as stones-but I hope it helps!

[Heather]

Every little bit helps....this would have correlated with a bladder infection causing crystal which though not thought to be common in ferrets is a common cause of crystals in both cats and dogs
ciao

[miamiferret2]

Sept 2, 2012 22:18:22 GMT -5 @sheilaamistone1974 said:

just a side note. paris, my toy poodle who we got at 5 1/2 months, had struvite crystals nonstop until she was 1 yr. as soon as we switched her to raw, she no longer had problems crystals. my biggest question/wounder would be if all this is due to grains! at least when they are struvite crystals.

Raw diet seems to be the solution in many cases.

[Sherry]

Raw diet- or at least in the case of my cat, a wet diet!

[Heather]

So far (fingers crossed) Azrael is doing well since being switched to raw. He also was given a DES implant.
ciao