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Post by katt on Feb 16, 2013 17:50:45 GMT -5
Oh good boy! Start hand feeding Steve chunks and let me know how he does. He needs to be encouraged to eat them or he will continue to just pick around them.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2013 20:03:55 GMT -5
100% shall do we have 100% veal and beef stew so we shall keep you updated. Thank you very much ~mom~
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Post by katt on Feb 16, 2013 20:30:41 GMT -5
Let me know how it goes. Good luck! I'm glad Meeko is starting to do a little better, hopefully the improvement accelerates.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2013 21:31:58 GMT -5
I really hope so as well, as long as the eating keeps up im hoping other things follow as well. Poops look good from today as well so that's good. Were keeping up the slippery elm every other day 1tsp. And he's getting pancreatin and pro bios mixed into his food as well.
Def. Keeping the protein as is, will be getting lamb soon as meeko is going on over 2 weeks of being on strictly rabbit.
And yes hopefully Steve will tale to the chunks, another thing I've notices is that they don't like the larger chunks of bone, were looking into getting a nice mallet / cleaver to help with that...they don't seem to have the biting and tearing action just yet. Hopefully it all comes in time..
Also quick question.. Were doing bone in meats and some non bone chunks as well, organs are roughly mixed into that once a week? Is that enough? And im only able to find liver tight now...do gizzards count? I've been nervous as i can't properly ID them all and well i generally don't like that.
Thank you again so much~ i hope all is well with you and your baby's, school going ok? I know the semester is just getting into its oh so fun swing for me....
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Post by katt on Feb 17, 2013 13:54:47 GMT -5
Oh good, lamb will be great - I hope he likes it! As for the Slippery Elm, keep in mind that it is a tummy-coater and can interfere with the absorption of nutrients so it is not something that you want to give long-term. Have you either found rabbit organs or tried incorporating beef liver/kidney yet? If not, I would try adding a little beef liver in and see how he does. Expect his poops to darken some, that is normal. It does take time to develop the jaw and neck muscles for eating chunks and large bones. they will get there. Have you tried hand feeding him chunks yet? We can't really move forward until he starts eating them. Hand feeding will probably be needed to get him to eat at least a few chunks a day until he recognizes the chunks as food and will willingly eat them. Gizzards are muscle, not organ. Organs should be 10% of the diet of which liver should be about half. (So 5% liver, 5% other organs). If you are feeding 14 meals a week, this amounts to 1.5 meals a week of organ (should also be about 1.5 meals a week of heart as well by the way). Since you are feeding soup and not up the the chunks level yet, try to make sure that the organs and heart are each about 10% of the total soup when you are making it. This is where the scale really comes in handy. Eventually they will be eating chunks and will eat the liver and heart separately as chunks rather than soup.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2013 20:55:05 GMT -5
He really wants nothing to do with the chunks, I made a bowl tonight of assorted chunks and slivers of meat and tried a scruff and stuff and well it didn't work out great. Sahara is doing fine with it if I leave a bowl of chunks in the cage chances are she'll eat it ( trying this tonight.. ) because she willingly ate some when I gave her the bow.. Steve as mentioned he wants nothing to do with the chunks at ALL... so I guess continue to try and hand feed him small pieces? I'll have to scruff and stuff because he really just could care less...
As for the organ then I really need to order some other types of organ meat then, my concern with this though is that I've read other articles on here and elsewhere about how freezing degrades the nutrient content... SO, if by ordering obviously pre-frozen organs and other meats aren't I running a risk of low quality stuff? Stuff that's quite expensive to order and ship to me lol... There's really only one other butcher around here that I haven't tried yet for some stuff, otherwise all I can get is Chicken liver / heart / gizzards. Beef tounge / liver / meat. and JUST the carcass of rabbit, Also goat chunks and pork products and small game birds...otherwise that's it, so I do believe online is my best source for organs...but as mentioned, need to be concerned with quality?
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Post by katt on Feb 18, 2013 14:19:59 GMT -5
Yes, continue scruff N stuffing. Will he eat them at all hand fed? What is his reaction? Can you describe the chunks? What meat, how big are they, etc... As for organs, frozen is fine. Most of us on the board buy in bulk, pre-prepare, and freeze. If you can get organs online but not locally I would recommend it. Brain is particularly nutritious but I find it makes for looser stools than most organs, kidney, pancreas, and spleen are great too. How did the Chunks go with Sahara last night?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2013 21:10:55 GMT -5
Chunks went GREAT with Sahara she ate them all over the course of ~ a day. It was a mix of slivered Chicken hearts, goat, venison, and steak. Steve barely touched it at all.
His reactions to the chunks is sniffing, then sniffs again, then looks...then walks away. When I scruff and stuff he freaks and refuses to open at all... If I don't scruff and just try to keep shoving the food in his mouth he also just tries to run.
Have lamb - so should I try to just blend it with meekos soup? He's still getting soup because well...we figure him eating ANYTHING is better than nothing so were sticking with that for now.. Or should I make a just lamb soup and force him to eat that?
And I'll be placing an order tonight for organs a whole slew of em~
Managed to get Reishi mushroom for Meeko too and have been mixing that into his food, so were hoping that helps with the itchies...we have him in a tube sock t-shirt for now since he was RAW again... since the mushroom I feel he's possibly more lethargic? Maybe just poop'd from being poop'd....
Thank you again~
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Post by katt on Feb 20, 2013 4:19:57 GMT -5
I would mix a little lamb into Meeko's soup and see how he handles it, if he does okay you can increase the amount. How much Reishi is he getting a day? As for Steve, how big are the chunks. I need a description of their size. For now what I would do is stick with the soup for him, and start to thicken it up a bit by adding less water. Each meal add a little bit less. If he becomes hesitant at a stage give him a few meals at that stage to get used to it and eat that thickness before proceeding again. Gradually it will become very thick, almost the texture of ground meat. Then you can start to mix in ground meat. Then when he will eat that, we can try slipping slivers in, then chunks, etc. (You can try offering him the ground meat on its own at any time and see how he likes it too, he may or may not take to it. Ground chicken or turkey would be best as beef is more strongly flavored and he might not take to it as well). As for Sahara....Yaaaaay! Good girl! Keep it up little fuzz! How is she handling the bone chunks? How big are they? Also out of curiosity, what kind of blender are you using? Or do you use a meat grinder?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2013 7:37:47 GMT -5
Well, for meeko yes I mixed in a chunk o lamb and he ate it fine, his itching...er...well intense licking us still going on...the vet returned our call but didn't know what to do about his licking so wants to see us again, problem being its a 3hr ride so were trying to get there asap.. Tough with work. But otherwise he's fine, poops are great and he's eating like a horse! I feel it's all pred. Related which has me kinda bumbed because i want HIM to feel better and not a chemical that helps him...but well see with that.
Steve , well i don't want to put my foot in mouth but I've been doing the hand feeding of chunks and he actually licked one and rab off with it the other day, issue being i feel they are to big, so I've made small tiny bites of meat, well see how this goes. As for his soup he's already taken to a soup consistency that is very chunky, he just eats everything hw can and leaves the chunks for Sahara..
As for the bone she handles it great, not Steve but shell take a whole deymbstick bone and make it hers for days..she loves it. I've also noticed by smashing them or cleaving them into smaller pieces it makes it easier on them.
For the blender, werew using a cheep-o brand 350v blender, it does the job all day and at 10$ if it breaks I'll go get 2 more.. It has pulse modes which is what I've done to get steves food chunky but not chunky, as I said were to the point bow where I. Putting small cut pieces in a bowl and that's it...he better eat! Kidding....
Thank you again~
P.s.! - for the reishi meekos getting roughly...250mg daily, we cut back in the slippery elm, and has just getting pancreatin, taurine, and pro bio along with the reishi
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Post by katt on Feb 22, 2013 4:28:26 GMT -5
I need to know how big the chunks are. I've asked a few times. Easy to miss in such long posts, but I need to know. As far as Steve goes, you should be chopping up tiny slivers of meat for him - think about the tip of your fingernail. Here is a guideline to some "standardized" sizes. www.holisticferret60.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=switch&action=display&thread=4341The idea is to go from soup texture to mince (ground meat) texture to slivers of meat mixed in, and then slowly increase the size of the slivers. Some skip the mince phase and go right to slivers which is fine. But most ferrets will not go from soup to chunks. Some will, but most will not. This is part of why knowing the size is helpful to me. If I know what size they are I can give you a better idea of what else to try. Use a good knife to cut slivers up out of some boneless chicken breast (usually the easiest to work with and find). See how he handles those. As for Meeko, if the meds are helping that is great. Sometimes you just can't get them to feel better without meds. It is unfortunate, but it's the way it is. And yes it is a chemical in his body, but it IS making HIM feel better. I am glad he is taking to the lamb. Try to gradually increase the amount of lamb and monitor how he does. Have you incorporated any organ and heart yet? If not I would try to add some beef liver back in sooner rather than later. An off-balance diet is okay for a little while, but over time will lead to serious nutritional deficiencies. The sooner he is back on a balanced diet the better.
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Post by katt on Feb 22, 2013 4:28:57 GMT -5
Remember to add any new ingredient in slowly though so you can watch how he does with it. No sudden switches with him.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2013 7:44:28 GMT -5
Steve's chunk sizes range from tiny tiny slivers, like proschutto thin and very tiny, to a little bigger, to actual chunks. Sahara gas eaten the small medium and large chunks.
The issue with Steve is he just won't eat the chunks period, if I present a bowl of food with just small small slivers...he won't eat it. So I present a bowl of food with some ground meat mixed into it and h*ll eat all the 'soupy' ground meat but won't touch the chunks, h*ll lirerally lick the chunks....well small slivers in this case clean and leave them in the bowl...
my fear is he's not eating enough, I want to just make him soup but I don't want to be counter productive...especially since Sahara is doing so good.....lol such a pain having them all at different stages.
And meeko, well yes obviously were doing slow and steady, I did a ~2oz piece of lamb into his whole dinner and hw seemed fine, will keep doing slow increments of it. So far he just keeps eating...literally approx. 4 rabbit legs/thighs and a riv cage a day is about what he's eating...just so much otherwise he's fine...atill VERY red around his legs as he keeps licking, the vwt had us do small dosage of baby Benadryl...so were monitoring that too...i think he just needs R & R...
Thank you again
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Post by katt on Feb 22, 2013 13:14:31 GMT -5
If he isn't eating enough then yes, give him soup. If he is eating ground meat though without any issue, then there is no reason he shoulnd't be getting ground meat... Have you been hand feeding him?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2013 21:13:21 GMT -5
Yeah, the hand feeding just isn't productive..im obviously keeping it up but he straight refuses the chunks / slivers of meat and when he finally does succumb hw just runs and drops it
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