Should I be concerned?

[GeckosNWoozels]

Hello everyone!
(Warning - this will likely be long winded)

My name is Heather and I'm from Calgary area, Alberta, Canada. I have been a lurker/creeper on this forum since February of last year.. (Terrible, I know I should just join!) and I just want to give a shout out to the admins for being awesome and so very well educated.

I am currently owned by 4 wee ones, all males. They are the loves of my life, and they all get along swimmingly. My sweet little man Ojo started it off for me in May of last year. And well..Ferret math kicked in I guess with the other three..

Ojo and Penwyn are 11 months old, Pickle is 9 months old, and my youngest boy, Mittens, is 5 months old. They are all neutered and descented.. and are all MF Ferts.

They are housed in a Ferret nation 142 (The big 4 level cage) while I am at work, and are out of the cage approximately 4-6 hours during the week, and longer on the weekends.

Here is my potential concern;
Pickle has been 'blowing his coat' and has lost some weight. Now I know I could probably just be freaking out, and this is likely seasonal change, but I am a bit worried.

All of the boys, except for Mittens (as is/was still steadily gaining weight) were gigantic chunkers over the winter. Ojo was the largest at 5 pounds, Penwyn at 4.4, and Pickle at 4.3. Pickle has now dropped to roughly 3 pounds - Weighing a wriggler is a challenge lol.

This has just begun, I would say over the past 5-7 days. He just looks so..thin now! With all the research i've done, I've summed it up to the routine seasonal change..but I would very much appreciate some reassurance from those of you who have had woozels for a long time.

** And yes, I do know that if I am REALLY worried, a vet trip is in order.

The facts;
- His appetite is still normal and he is eating great.

- He is as rambunctious as ever, and plays just as hard as Mittens, my 5 month old. He is in no way shape or form ever lethargic. He's either sleeping, or dancing and dooking and stealing everything and opening every drawer in the house.

- His poops are beautiful (as beautiful as poop can be) and I have followed him around waiting for him to poop to be 100% sure. (Yup..i'm a creep.)

- They are kibble fed.. I discussed raw with my vet, and she advised against it. We had a bit of a heated discussion in regards to it, but her main concern was bacteria issues. I went ahead and tried it anyways regardless of what she recommended. I tried chicken necks (to chew on mostly and to keep teeth healthy/clean), chicken hearts, F/T pinky mice, and a piece of raw chicken thigh. They decided it would be much better to hide all of the above instead. (Yes, I know that is natural behaviour for them as well.) And of course, as your typical 'kibble feeder' keeper, you are probably not shocked to hear that raw does intimidate me a bit.

- The kibble they are currently eating is a mix. Evo Ferret, GO! Cat Fit and Free (Chicken, Turkey, Duck - Grain Free) and Totally Ferret - Turkey, Venison, Lamb. (I know most people frown upon TF..) I have tried to get Epigen, but the one store I know of that carries is it always out of stock, or never gets it in. Ordering it online has been challenging as well. I DID have Wellness core in the mix but they absolutely hated it. I've been debating on adding Orijen cat into the mix as my dog is on Orijen and he has a fantastic soft and shiny coat. Despite people having difficult with Evo-Ferret, my guys do really well on it as a mix. I DO find if I mix TOO much in, that it does cause poop issues.

- There are no bald patches anywhere on him, he just looks exactly like the ferts in the one thread that's active with a few pictures of them with coat changes. (Sherry, I believe you posted in that one.)

- I give them vaseline once a week. Just the pure, regular, non-coloured petroleum jelly with absolutely nothing in it. I am wondering, should I increase the frequency while Pickle is shedding to ensure he doesn't get bunged up with grooming the excessive hair on him? Or should I increase it for all 4 since they are all housed together and groom eachother regularily?

- Other treats they are given is Ferretone or Vivify (once a week or/and when I cut their nails) and I usually mix some extra virgin olive oil in there because I do know that Ferretone is not the greatest for them..

- There have been no new additions to the home either.

- The house runs at room temperature. (average 70F-72F)

And..that's pretty much everything I can think of right now. I appreciate ANY help that is offered, and if you require more information please do not hesitate to ask! I will monitor this thread closely.

Thanks!
Heather

[GeckosNWoozels]

Sorry - One part is unclear. 4-6 hours EVERY DAY (monday to friday) and then out longer on the weekends.

[Heather]

Hi Heather
You really should let us transport your intro post to the welcome and join We don't bite....our ferrets might but we don't ;D
Ok, your little one....first, I cannot analyze your diet, totally honest don't really have much of a clue when it comes to kibbles. Haven't fed the stuff in over 20 yrs and really haven't kept on top of it, except to read the recalls . Someone else will pop in and advice you on that. If your little ones are thriving it might be the mix for them. If you really want to make a switch check out the mentoring program.
So, we will go to the weight loss. He's eating, pooping and active. He's not got super patchy shedding, hips, belly, paws? Sounds to me like seasonal weight loss. Most male ferrets (jibs) should weigh about 2.5 to 3 lbs, the larger ones up to 4 but most times that's winter weight. We do have a tendency to keep them a bit on the heavy side. Do you keep a weight log? Start one so next year they don't scare you again I would love to have a dollar for every spring when I put someone on the scale and go "oh sh*t" and then look at last years weight and go....right . Ferrets have very different body types from bulldogs (short stubby little brats) to the grey hounds (longer leaner) to the whippets (slim almost skinny racers). These last ones give everyone heart attacks. They're usually active little brains who spend their whole lives doing something. They're into everything....hence the lack of ability to put on weight.
Your vaseline regime....stop it...now. Use pumpkin instead. Vaseline prevents the bowels from absorbing nutrients (coats them, which is why we use it to move blockages). Pumpkin just helps wrap up the shed hairs and moves them along. Much better. This will also allow your more active ferret to absorb more nutrients and keep his weight more stable.
Hope that helps a little. You could post pics and we can better judge if your guy appears overly skinny. Yes, they do a huge weight loss in the spring and some of us have started to note changes.
ciao

[Sherry]

I've been scared by spring weight loss more times than I care to remember! The first year is frequently the worst on top of it all. As for bacteria- every so often I'll see one running by with a piece if SOMETHING in their mouth, track them down to see what it is, and realize that yes, I DID miss finding a bit if meat a week or two ago I just let them have it now. If the bacterial count is too high they won't touch it anyway!

[GeckosNWoozels]

Hey Heather.

Thanks for the response! I will definitely cut the vaseline out and switch to pumpkin asap.

As for a weight log, I have been keeping one ever since I got them, however when I got the kids last year they were all only kits.. Ojo was only 8 weeks when I got him, along with the rest of the them being between 7-10 weeks. Unfortunately I have nothing to compare to at this point, and I think that is why I am a bit afraid. I am keeping the logs though, so hopefully this time next year I wont be losing my freaking mind.

He is completely covered in fur still..just losing quite a bit. He looks pretty much exactly like the 2 pictured in this thread in regards to hair loss; holisticferret60.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=vetting&action=display&thread=1684

Ojo and Mittens are quite 'broad' built, whereas Pickle is a bit more on the dainty side.

[Heather]

Hmmm....ok...the first kit winter weight to real weight is scary. Chances are even next winter your guys won't weigh as much as they did this year. Kits for whatever reason put on huge amounts of winter weight. I think it may be because they're eating because they're growing kits and they then eat for winter weight. Whatever the reason, the loss in the spring is scarey and it's normal. Just keep an eye on your little one, if he doesn't appear to be sick and the weight loss stabalizes then put it down to their first spring weight loss

ciao

[GeckosNWoozels]

Thank god. That just made me take a breather lol!

I have Heinz Baby Food - The chicken and broth. Literally the ingredients are Chicken and Chicken Broth. I was looking for the Gerber brand, but they didn't have just the stand alone chicken. I was going to grab the beef and broth, but it had lemon juice in it..The organic baby food only had fruits apparently -.-' Should I make him a 'soup' daily or something? I usually do a soup once a month for them with kibble that i've moistened and mashed up mixed with a bit of baby food, extra virgin olive oil and a bit of ferretone.

The ONLY reason why I do this is because it was recommended to me to make sure that they would be willing to eat some form of slurry/soup in the event that they do potentially get sick and require it in the future. I usually give it to them via syringe so they are also used to the syringe and associate it with good things if I do have to give them medication.

I also do not make up a very large portion either, just enough for a couple licks and so they know what it is. Sometimes I will give them some ferretone or vivify or extra virgin olive oil in the syringe as well. I can show them the syringe and they get pretty excited over it. I dread the day their hearts are broken if they get some disgusting pred or something lol.

If you think it's over kill, I'll just leave him as is and continue to monitor his weight and weigh him regularily.

[Deleted]

I've been feeding raw for over 3 years and have never had any sort of bacteria illness from it. I've found petrified meat that had been chewed on and the ferrets were also fine. You shouldn't be worried about bacteria as long as you use common sense and wash up. After all we humans also prepare raw meat for ourselves and no one dies

It seems like I hear about more salmonella issues from vegetables in the market place rather than meat.

Also if working with raw meat is so dangerous why are butchers walking around perfectly fine.. some vets need to get their heads outta their butt and do some research.

Welcome to the fourm! Hopefully you will post some pictures soon?

[GeckosNWoozels]

My thoughts are all along the same as yours, candykitten. When I brought up raw to my vet, she wasn't pleased at all.

I keep reptiles, mainly geckos, and I breed them as well and have for the past 5 years now. I do a lot of the educational shows that go on here and it is a CONSTANT battle against the salmonella issue, and the fear mongers.

I'm not opposed to raw at all, I'm just intimidated by it. I think my biggest 'issue' is with myself honestly, and the fear that I would screw something up.

[Heather]

It is intimidating....I understand your fears and concerns. I can remember when I first did the leap of faith. Twenty years ago, most raw feeders were rather hmmm...secretive They had a right to be...you got bashed by your vet, your friends, relatives. Everyone was against it. You had to be absolutely crazy....but I had a cat who was dying from renal failure and a puppy who was starving to death....I needed to find something that worked for them and fast. I was terrified...scared of doing something wrong, scared of killing my cat and dog. A lady on a breed specific list helped me with my dog, she lived in Australia if I remember correctly. She was the one who finally said...look your dog is dying anyway how can you possibly make it worse. Made sense, I jumped and made that leap of fait. A raw cat list helped me with the kitty. I'm eternally grateful to them. I've never looked back. It's one of the reasons why I started helping when the first Holistic Ferret Forum was created....call it paying back. It's also one of the reasons why the mentoring program was created. To assist people to learn how to balance their little ones diets and to help the work through the "brats" notorious habit of fixating on a particular food type. Check out the mentoring program, read some of the threads...you can't post to them but it will give you some ideas
ciao

[Deleted]

While raw is always preferred, those are all better brands of kibbles sans the TF as you know. If you can get the Orijen, I highly recommend it, it's one of the best brands out there. Mine did excellent on it before going raw. I'd also caution you against the Evo, since P&G bought it the quality has been going down and it does cause a lot of runny poo as you've noticed.

If you can, I'd take a look at the moredooks food chart if you haven't before to help you pick out kibbles if you chose not to go raw. We'd love to help you switch if you do decide to do it though.

moredooks.herobo.com/search.php?chart=ferret

[Deleted]

I always get sad when the winter chubbas is lost :C All my guys are MF, and I have noticed with them as kits (especially boys) - their first year they can balloon up. My Yogi's first year (during winter) he got up to a bit over 5 lbs, but he never reached that weight again (he stays 4-4.5lbs in winter and 3.5 lbs in the summer.).