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Post by darlene on Jan 4, 2013 18:21:11 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2013 18:53:39 GMT -5
omg what is going on with them? Science doesn' t seem to matter any more.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2013 19:16:26 GMT -5
Wut.
I'm not really into homeopathic therapies myself but if someone wants to try it - why not? Especially if they've tried other "conventional" methods and haven't seen any results.
I still can't believe they're so anti-raw. Hopefully that will change as "natural" pet foods and pre-packaged raw are becoming a "thing" in specialty pet stores.
My vet would slyly work in how "great" their kibble was or to "check their site" about getting the ferrets, my dog, and cat on an better diet.
The cat and ferrets were on Wellness Core at the time, the dog on Regional Red. Sorry - your science diet does NOT cut it with me. He will probably flip if he ever finds out the ferrets are on raw. ;D
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Post by Sherry on Jan 4, 2013 20:11:54 GMT -5
I still can't believe they're so anti-raw. Hopefully that will change as "natural" pet foods and pre-packaged raw are becoming a "thing" in specialty pet stores. Big pet food company pushing the issue is why they've come down so firmly anti raw. I guess they figured if they've already lined the pockets of big pet food, they may as well get a bit of it for themselves  |
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Post by blacktiefarms on Jan 4, 2013 20:12:44 GMT -5
What do people think we did with our animals before western medicine???
its so sad that we have to lie to our vet now a days, but I do! my vet would freak out if she new I fed raw to my animals. She also recommends that science diet crap! and only because some science diet rep. came into her college class and went on and on about animal health, as if they know anything about it! JMO lol she already has a fit because after the initial 3 sets of "baby" shots I stop vaccinating. I have done a lot of research and read a lot of books and had to many bad experiences with multiple vaccinations to keep doing that to my animals. as humans we only get 3 (sometimes 4) sets of shots, we don't go in for our yearly vaccinations, and we are vaccinated for life, why would our pets be any different!
okay, I'm done ranting : )........for now!
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Post by Sherry on Jan 4, 2013 20:20:50 GMT -5
Our vet has learned that I will not be budged on diet or vacc's. So she works with it. And is constantly amazed at the condition of them whenever she sees them  |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2013 20:23:34 GMT -5
Personally this bothers me less than the anti-raw resolution, because I am not convinced homeopathy is effective for humans or pets.
However, it does bother me because I think it is motivated primarily by money. Just like the anti-raw resolution.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2013 20:46:01 GMT -5
I've never understood fully what falls under the branches of homeopathic. If they mean using herbs instead of commercial pills and treatments like acupuncture and massage therapy then yes, I fully support it. Those things are all scientifically backed as to why they're effective- after all, modern pills evolved from the early cultures understanding of herb lore. We just make most things synthetically now rather than getting rare plants from a rainforest etc.
If homeopathic means those people that tell you to use this crystal to drain your negative energy into it and thus cure that cancerous mass from your body.... uhh, not so much. At least not until we can prove it with science. While I may believe in positive/negative energies, I don't necessarily feel that some of the "out there" stuff will really do anything.
Regardless it is people's right to spend their money on whatever kind of vet they want and the agency should not be pushing their views on the rest of us.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2013 21:08:03 GMT -5
So I went and read this. My take on it is that here is more evidence of some people who want to control you. They want you to do and believe as they do.
If someone wants to practice homeopathic, why does it bother them so much? If someone wants to feed raw, why shouldn't they?
Like the article stated, if he was really convinced, and not motivated by money or personal agenda, why isn't he comfortable putting his name to it? Because he knows he's being ridiculous. He knows he's wrong.
I thank the good Lord that I have a very open-minded vet.
While I firmly believe that everyone is entitled to their opinion, if you're going to voice it in a publicly-read forum, at least have the common sense God gave you to do your research FIRST.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2013 22:31:39 GMT -5
I reviewed the issue at hand, and the issue transcends homeopathy, which is only one branch of alternative medicine. Essentially, the AVMA is turning against every modality (and there are MANY) other than traditional western medicine as taught in the veterinary schools in the US. I honestly beleive I understand the motivation  behind this. I live near CSU, which is one of the top medical schools in the country. I also live near Boulder, which has quite a few fairly well-off residents (NOT I, said the wolf!!!  ) ANyway, what is happening around here is that vet care is becoming unaffordable for normal people like me. Gentle medicine is no longer practiced - vets don't even palpate your animal - they barley even look at you animal any more. All they do is run EXPENSIVE tests with the machines they have paid through the nose for. So, all they know how to do is run expensive tests. Is this better? yes and no.....on one hand, you have more data. One the other hand, we can diagnose, but we cannot necessarily treat the disease any better than before. Example: you can biopsy the colon to diagnose IBD. But whether or not the ferret technically has IBD does not matter - the treatment will be the same. A good ferret vet can hear differences in the heart associated with cardiomyopathy. An x-ray can verify this....and ultrasound MAY (or may NOT) reveal more. In my case with Shaman - they made a BOGUS diagnosis of heart worm - and they ran ultrasounds on all 4 ferrets. My retired traditional and homeopathic vets said the blood work coupled with risk factor negated this diagnosis - Shaman's necropsy proved that the old school vets were correct--> NO heart worm........so, that stinking episode scared the crap out of me and cost me 4,000 dollars. SO, I honestly believe that the new-school vets are pushing all this new, expensive medicine. What is happening in boulder is that they are killing off their clients with ridiculous bills and their lack of the ability to diagnose without expensive tests renders them ineffective for those who lack the money. ANd some of us have had bad results with these test and/or have found that the end treatment is no different that with the old school vets who do not rely on fancy tests. Alternative medicine for pets is beginning to spring up in this area, and the "new school" traditional vets hate this. So the war has begun....so to speak. Gaaahhhh!!!!!  By the way, Dr. Hofve (in the video) has seen my kkids - she volunteers to give consultations at Only Natural Pet Store in Boulder. The place is a zoo when she's there....you wait in line for an exam, there are people with pets everywhere - but I'm the only one who brings ferrets. The brats are a HUGE hit.....and it's really funny because Tomichi would bite EVERYONE on her own property. She NEVER bit anyone outside of our yard....I could pass her around to small children at the pet store without ANY WORRY. but on our property, she would challenge everyone except my husband and me - territorial little BRAT, she was.....God how I miss her  and Shaman -->  anyway. this really honks me off - I swear I know what's behind all this. After all that bogus heart worm crap with Shaman, I dumped my new traditional vet. I now have only my part-time integrative vet who does not have a full practice these days....he does better for my kids than the traditional vet. He works with traditional vets, but I find that, with Tonto and Kachina being almost 8, the alternative vet is BETTER...Every time I saw the new traditional vet, all he wanted to do was sedate them to take blood, run ultrasounds, clean teeth, do surgery....I swear he was going to kill my old guys with all his tests! OK, I'm done ranting  I'm disgusted   I will be responding to all this. -jennifer |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2013 22:54:14 GMT -5
Yurei, homeopathy is the field of medicine where they take some compound (often something poisonous) and dilute it down a bazillion times until it's to the point where there aren't even any molecules of the original substance left in the dilution ;D (see here: www.ukskeptics.com/homeopathic-dilutions.php) Then they say that it retains the "vibration" that the original substance imparted to the dilution. There may be other forms too, I don't know. I don't buy it, but I respect the right to choose to practice this if it's what you believe works. I'm willing to accept that it's possible there may be something to it, even if I personally am not a proponent. However, I don't think whether or not homeopathic medicine is legit is the real issue here. I agree with Jennifer, the real issue is that the AVMA wants to discredit any alternative form of pet health care! Including herbal, holistic, naturopathic, etc. I wouldn't be surprised to see them release more resolutions condemning other fields of alternative medicine! |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2013 23:03:44 GMT -5
What do people think we did with our animals before western medicine??? its so sad that we have to lie to our vet now a days, but I do! my vet would freak out if she new I fed raw to my animals. She also recommends that science diet crap! and only because some science diet rep. came into her college class and went on and on about animal health, as if they know anything about it! JMO lol she already has a fit because after the initial 3 sets of "baby" shots I stop vaccinating. I have done a lot of research and read a lot of books and had to many bad experiences with multiple vaccinations to keep doing that to my animals. as humans we only get 3 (sometimes 4) sets of shots, we don't go in for our yearly vaccinations, and we are vaccinated for life, why would our pets be any different! okay, I'm done ranting : )........for now! I guess thats why many vets have "loyalty" to one food (lots of times in my experience it's Science Diet - they must have good representatives visiting schools). My vet isn't terrible - he is really affordable is more likely to palpitate/physically exam or take blood than try an expensive and stupid test. I think its because his clientele isn't that "well off" (what I'v seen of them anyway - lots of college kids and people who aren't all fancy smancy) and his office isn't in a great neighborhood. Of course I did have that issue with boarding my dog there...I won't be doing *that* again but it wasn't HIS fault. But heaven forbid if he found out about the raw. He hasn't seen my boys since the switch (they're due in the Fall) but he did comment on Loki when he was on Wellness Core (the best ferret he had ever seen). So I can imagine what he'll say when he sees them again. Loki is a muscle ferret to be reckoned with now. My mom's yorkie is on Science Diet (because her vet told her to) and she won't change over to Regional Red. He is so obese it's really sad. Of course that also has to do with portioning, exercise and treats but, still, a grain free food wouldn't hurt the animal. ;D |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2013 23:08:52 GMT -5
Yurei, homeopathy is the field of medicine where they take some compound (often something poisonous) and dilute it down a bazillion times until it's to the point where there aren't even any molecules of the original substance left in the dilution ;D (see here: www.ukskeptics.com/homeopathic-dilutions.php) Then they say that it retains the "vibration" that the original substance imparted to the dilution. There may be other forms too, I don't know. I don't buy it, but I respect the right to choose to practice this if it's what you believe works. I'm willing to accept that it's possible there may be something to it, even if I personally am not a proponent. However, I don't think whether or not homeopathic medicine is legit is the real issue here. I agree with Jennifer, the real issue is that the AVMA wants to discredit any alternative form of pet health care! Including herbal, holistic, naturopathic, etc. I wouldn't be surprised to see them release more resolutions condemning other fields of alternative medicine! This is my problem too - like I said I'm not into homeopathy. I sure wouldn't use it on myself or my animals as I find the dilution thing a little reaching (no offense! If it works for you - it works for you! I ain't gonna judge) but: It's paving the way for them to make more negative press about holistic/herbal medicine in general, which includes practices that overall have great potential to help our animals. Some of it might be a little reaching, sure, but we know the effects a good diet has and what natural supplements can positively impact our fert's health (oils, pumpkin, etc). We should be able to talk about that with our vets without getting the "Thou shalt not do anything but give this synthesized medicine/diet or thou will kill your pet" speech. |
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Post by Sherry on Jan 4, 2013 23:39:11 GMT -5
Mike- have you ever used Bach's rescue remedy for your ferrets? That's also homeopathic, and many of us KNOW it works So it's not all hocus pocus. Colloidal silver works. Probiotics and digestive enzymes all work. And they are all homeopathic. Chiropractic and massage therapies all work. Both homeopathic. What they(AVMA) are pushing for is to prevent anyone but them treating our ferrets(and other pets), and only having them poked, prodded, etc for the vet's own pocket books, and nothing else. |
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Post by darlene on Jan 4, 2013 23:41:38 GMT -5
Very interesting Jennifer.
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) ANyway, what is happening around here is that vet care is becoming unaffordable for normal people like me. Gentle medicine is no longer practiced - vets don't even palpate your animal - they barley even look at you animal any more. All they do is run EXPENSIVE tests with the machines they have paid through the nose for. So, all they know how to do is run expensive tests.