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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2016 15:37:55 GMT -5
She seems to feel ok but still refuses to initiate feeding on her own. She does eat off my finger if I scruff her. Most of the time she will continue to eat for a short while if I transition her to just sitting and leaning forward onto my hand. When she starts to get restless, I scruff her again for a bite or two then back to sitting/leaning forward. I gradually lean her more forward toward all fours. She has actually eaten a couple of bites like that. But just when I think we're making progress, she decides that she doesn't want to play this game any more and we start over from scratch. I try to let her have as much control as I can and still get her fed.
I have not caged my fuzzies since the first night I had my first one in 2002. He rattled the cage the entire night. I put a baby gate on the door the next day and they have had their own room since. I eventually left the door open and let them have the run of the house. Last summer I bought an a/c for their room because Honey Bun was so sick. They could open the door and come out when they wanted to. They went back in ATC in May when it turned really hot again. I have been taking Suga out a couple of times a day to see if that would make a difference if she is mourning. We've been outside and just around in the house. She seems to want to go back into her room. She has moved her tennis balls around a little more but no change in interest in food.
I understand the concern about electrolyte imbalance. I had considered that as well. I also figured that to some degree it was balanced out by the fact that when she ate/drank the watery CC she didn't drink extra water like she would if she ate dry food. And, since I don't have the luxury of a feeding tube or hyperal, I didn't see that I had much choice short of syringe feeding her all the time.
I have no idea how long it will take her to decide that I'm not trying to poison her or to adjust to her new world. I don't want to hold anyone up from starting their transition so perhaps we should just step aside for now. I appreciate the help you have offered and the opportunity to give raw a chance. I just wish it had happened at an earlier time in their lives.
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Post by katt on Aug 10, 2016 22:32:21 GMT -5
She seems to feel ok but still refuses to initiate feeding on her own. She does eat off my finger if I scruff her. Most of the time she will continue to eat for a short while if I transition her to just sitting and leaning forward onto my hand. When she starts to get restless, I scruff her again for a bite or two then back to sitting/leaning forward. I gradually lean her more forward toward all fours. She has actually eaten a couple of bites like that. But just when I think we're making progress, she decides that she doesn't want to play this game any more and we start over from scratch. I try to let her have as much control as I can and still get her fed.
Does she ever grind her teeth that you have noticed? I wonder if it is an issue with the discomfort she has eating/swallowing, nausea and stomach pain, or simply a lack of appetite from being so sick... Is she on any kind of pain meds? It might be worth asking the vet what (s)he thinks. Ferrets are masters at hiding their pain, so I wonder if a low dose of pain meds might make her a little more comfortable, and whether or not that would help her feel more comfortable when eating... I have not caged my fuzzies since the first night I had my first one in 2002. He rattled the cage the entire night. I put a baby gate on the door the next day and they have had their own room since. I eventually left the door open and let them have the run of the house. Last summer I bought an a/c for their room because Honey Bun was so sick. They could open the door and come out when they wanted to. They went back in ATC in May when it turned really hot again. I have been taking Suga out a couple of times a day to see if that would make a difference if she is mourning. We've been outside and just around in the house. She seems to want to go back into her room. She has moved her tennis balls around a little more but no change in interest in food.
Poor baby, she really has been through the ringer - and you too. Just keep loving on her and giving her as much love and attention as you can, which I know you are doing. Hopefully she decides to keep fighting, but if not, she will tell you when she is done. I understand the concern about electrolyte imbalance. I had considered that as well. I also figured that to some degree it was balanced out by the fact that when she ate/drank the watery CC she didn't drink extra water like she would if she ate dry food. And, since I don't have the luxury of a feeding tube or hyperal, I didn't see that I had much choice short of syringe feeding her all the time.I would still ask the vet. Carnivore Care is made to be a highly digestible, critical care source of nutrition so I assume it can be fairly thin and still be fine - but I do not know HOW thin it can be. The vet may have suggestions, e.g. what if you used part water, and part chicken broth (no salt added) to water it down vs just plain water? That might add just enough extra protein and electrolytes to make up the difference. BUT it may be just fine at the consistency it is. I would just consider asking about it whenever the chance arises. I have no idea how long it will take her to decide that I'm not trying to poison her or to adjust to her new world. I don't want to hold anyone up from starting their transition so perhaps we should just step aside for now. I appreciate the help you have offered and the opportunity to give raw a chance. I just wish it had happened at an earlier time in their lives.This is entirely up to you. You are not keeping anyone else from getting a mentor right now - not only are we caught up on our waiting list right now, but I also can always take on more switches in addition to this one with my schedule lightening up this year. So don't let a concern about keeping other people back factor in - this is about you and Suga. I am more than happy to keep working with you and little Suga. Like I said, it is all about going at her pace, and if that means increasing her food by a 0.1cc drop a month then that's the pace we will go. If it means she doesn't get to raw soupies before her fragile days are out, then that's the pace we will go. Honestly, given her health status I would really consider keeping Carnivore Care in her diet in addition to whatever raw she will accept regardless as it is a highly digestible, nutrient dense food designed for critical care, which in her current condition she really probably needs right now. If you want to continue trying to sneak in some raw soupies though, I will more than happily continue to work with you. It is entirely up to you.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2016 10:25:55 GMT -5
I have not seen any grinding or any indication that she is in pain. Other than the feeding issue, I don't see anything out of the ordinary, activity-wise. She accepts some food off my finger then doesn't want any more. Each meal it's different. The other day she was curled up in the floor, flipped on her back, in her position of comfort when I went in to feed her. I put some CC on my finger and touched it to her mouth. She lay there and ate for a little while. When she got fidgety, I put her on my lap on her back and she ate more off my finger. One feed she ate probably 80% before she didn't want any more. Some feeds she doesn't want any from the start. When she does eat from the bowl or spoon, she keeps her mouth closed and just lets the tip of her tongue out and she eats around the edges as if she thinks it might be poison.
Every time I ask my vet about nutrition he says I'm talking over his head. Twice he's told me that I ask questions no one else does. A few months ago he brought me his reference book and told me that I could borrow it if I wanted to. He said he figured I would read it cover to cover then he could call me when he needed a consult. I had to take Honey Bun to a different vet in the spring when my vet was on vacation. I asked him about food. He said all of his ferrets were on Marshall's and he was fine with that. I have no confidence in the "holistic exotic vets" that I was using in another state after they messed Honey Bun up so badly. During the winter I called a vet school to try to get some resource information. They couldn't talk about anything but wanting me to fax over records. I just wanted general nutrition information. When they finally realized that I wasn't going to send the records, they told me to find a cat food that met my requirements. The vet school that I took Belle to when they couldn't do something so simple as draw blood to prove that she had the infection that I said she had but instead did all sorts of exotic tests and finally surgery before they found the infection chastised me for not having her on kibble. During the winter I made an appointment with an exotic vet who does phone consults. The appointment was confirmed but she never called and I could never get another response. I called holistic vet a couple of hours away but she only does large animals. I really don't feel that I have a good resource for asking some of my questions. I don't think she's getting more water than if the CC is thick and she drinks free water with and between her meals. Early this week I tried thicker CC so that I could scoop it with my finger. That works as long as I can get her to eat it off my finger.
I have been using the turkey baby food for that very reason. I started adding it to Honey Bun's CC back in the spring in an attempt to increase the protein content. With Suga, I also thought it might improve the flavor since she has never been a real fan of CC. Honey Bun acted like it was dessert. The thing with that is that it adds volume. I still have to add some water.
I have considered the eventuality that CC would be a permanent staple on some level. I felt that it would give me some confidence that she was getting what she needs.
Each meal is different. I just keep trying to figure out what works for her.
Thanks for your support.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2016 5:33:52 GMT -5
Suga was fiercely independent and strong willed. She was equally as loving, playful and mischievous - always on her terms. She, like Honey Bun, Bowden, Trixie, Belle, Leroy and Bubba, gave me so much joy. God smiled on me the day he brought each one of these precious creatures into my life and entrusted their care to me. Hopefully one day I can smile, knowing that they are all playing together. But at the moment my heart doesn't believe that's ever going to happen. D.I.P. angel.
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Post by katt on Aug 21, 2016 16:34:11 GMT -5
Oh no. I am so sorry. I've been traveling and was unexpectedly busy, I'm sorry for my unexpected absence. I wish I had been here to see this post sooner. I am so deeply sorry for your loss. Little Suga is dooking at the Rainbow Bridge now watching over you. Words always seem so frail and insufficient for moments like these. I hope that time may bring you healing, and that when you are ready you will welcome more furry little lives into your home. You are a wonderful ferrent and your girls were so, SO lucky to have you to watch out for them. I am sending love and healing thoughts your way. <3 <3 I am done with traveling and board exams now, so I will be much more available (finally) - if you need anything don't hesitate to PM me or tag me on the boards.
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