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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2016 23:34:35 GMT -5
It's fantastic to hear that you are very dedicated by starting the search for sources before even applying for a mentor. Sometimes we raw feeders just need to do with what we can (providing we meet the minimum of 3 proteins other than: chicken, rabbit, cornish game hen or fish.) I know all too well of the frustrations with sources. There may also be a time where a reliable source becomes an unreliable source, this makes finding multiple sources a very good idea. Don't stress too much if you cannot get certain proteins at this current stage. You have plenty of time to scope out sources throughout the transition. CGH is Cornish Game Hen- We have a few "shortened" words for various proteins. If we mention anything that you are unsure about or have never heard, just tell us so we can explain further. For now, You can do what Katt suggested by starting with simply the chicken raw soup mixed with the Carnivore Care. Further down in the switch you can start trying other proteins as you find the sources.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2016 8:26:48 GMT -5
Suga has not had any BG issues. I checked her a couple of times when she was doing high quality DFS, but she was fine. I have also not had any concerns for food allergies or IBD with her.
What is MCT?
In re reishi, how often did you give 1/4 capsule?
I have had chicken soupie made since April. I can start adding it to her CC.
What safe food handling basics do you adhere to? Do you do anything above and beyond washing dishes and utensils with detergent and water? Beyond wiping down counter tops with standard cleaner? Anything you consider essential for safety?
I have taurine powder on hand.
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Post by katt on Jul 27, 2016 20:15:27 GMT -5
Suga has not had any BG issues. I checked her a couple of times when she was doing high quality DFS, but she was fine. I have also not had any concerns for food allergies or IBD with her. What is MCT? In re reishi, how often did you give 1/4 capsule? I have had chicken soupie made since April. I can start adding it to her CC. What safe food handling basics do you adhere to? Do you do anything above and beyond washing dishes and utensils with detergent and water? Beyond wiping down counter tops with standard cleaner? Anything you consider essential for safety? I have taurine powder on hand. You won't need the taurine powder as long as your soup has heart meat in it. Prepping meat for ferrets is no different from prepping raw meat for human dinner. I just toss the stuff in the dishwasher or use run of the mill dish soap. Do whatever you would do after cooking a chicken dinner for yourself. MCT = Mast Cell Tumor. They are very common, small, benign growths on ferrets. However they itch a LOT, so they are typically noticed bc they have been scratched open during itching. Some people swear by Reishi for getting rid of MCTs but I've never had any luck with it for that. Hydrocortisone cream 1-2 times a day works wonders.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2016 9:43:02 GMT -5
Thank you.
I'm familiar with the mast cell tumors, just didn't know the abbreviation. What strength hydrocortisone cream?
How often did you give 1/4 Reishi capsule?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2016 19:37:01 GMT -5
Yep, clean as usual. Some of us prefer to have ferret specific utensils, knives or chopping boards etc, even tubs for storage in freezers to keep things simple but neat. If you're into reading, there is a really fantastic doc on Bacteria. It also lists the ways to keep things clean or to stop cross-contamination. docs.google.com/document/d/1ayLi5Gra3cCbDLkUWpZXP-yOQjqvcfGZ7rQKeJay1k0/edit
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2016 12:21:43 GMT -5
Awesome! I am an information junkie. And since I lost one of my fuzzies to a GI infection when she was not on a kibble diet, I am more than paranoid about anything I do on my own. To pour salt in the wound, the vet school I took her too really raked me over the coals for not having her on kibble.
1. Ferret's name: Suga 2. Ferret's weight: 2# 3.5oz. 3. Ferret has eaten "X" amount on average per meal. 1 tsp. soupie substituted for turkey baby food in Carnivore Care. Accepting ok so far as long as the consistency remains the same. 4. Stools on various proteins. Remain formed and two-toned. Some areas darker than others. Cannot tell if they are dark green or other color. Could possibly be strands of mucous. 5. Activity levels: Sleeps most of the time. Occasionally moves her tennis balls from place to place. Had been playing in tunnels but haven't seen that in past week. She did just lose her best friend so not sure how much that plays into activity or amount of encouragement required to eat. Also don't know how much her current health status factors in. 6. Weekly menu: Carnivore Care with chicken soupie every 4 hours at night, every 6 hours during day.
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Post by katt on Jul 29, 2016 16:06:33 GMT -5
Just standard 1% OTC hydrocortisone. I'm sorry you had that experience with the vets, stuff like that makes me so angry. It seems to be especially bad at vet schools - maybe bc they are in the business of saturating new vets' brains with how great kibble is - esp Hills/Science Diet. Ferrets are WELL equipped to handle the bacteria on meat. In the wild they hunt their prey, or find carrion (that has already been sitting out for various amounts of time, exposed to the elements). They take that meat and drag it through the wilderness - dirt, leaves, bushes,mud puddles, you name it - back to their dens. They drag it into their dens to stash whatever they don't eat right away, and then urinate/defecate on it to keep other animals from wanting to eat it. (Ever wonder why ferrets often stash meat in their litter box?). Then it sits there...hours, days...until they decide to eat it. Ferrets are uniquely designed to handle a heavy bacteria load. They have extremely acidic stomachs, the stomach acid kills off a lot of the bacteria. Then they have very fast transit time - it takes about 3 hours for food to pass from mouth to anus. This rapid transit means that bacteria doesn't have a chance to latch on and start growing. Then to boot ferrets, esp healthy raw fed ferrets, have really strong immune systems. Now of course they obviously CAN get sick and can get bacterial infections, just like any other species. But often it is an overgrowth of existing bacteria, part of their normal gut flora, that is the issue rather than something external (e.g. food). Stress, illness, antibiotics, certain medications. Stress (emotional or physical) slows gut motility, and impairs the immune system, allowing bugs that would not normally cause issues to take over. Antibiotics wipe out a lot of the normal gut flora, which can then allow one strain to grow more than it otherwise could, and it can grow to the point of becoming pathogenic (hence why they are opportunistic pathogens, they normally live happily in the gut without issues, but when given the opportunity they go wild and overgrow). Different medications can have different effects - they might alter the internal chemical balance of the gut, might alter gut motility, might affect the immune system, or they might do nothing - it all depends on the med. Anything that slows gut motility or gut transit time, and anything that impairs the immune system can make an animal more susceptible to infection. Often it is a normal gut flora that overgrows, sometimes it is from an external source. So let's examine the external sources. Sure, raw meat can (and does) have bacteria on it. Human grade meat is VERY regulated. How it is processed is carefully regulated, it is washed, it is tested. If there's too much bacteria or a bad strain, it gets recalled. Which happens with everything, I mean heck look at the massive recall of bean sprouts a few years back or spinach. But overall, human grade meat is very regulated and very safe. Meanwhile take a look at kibble. Ingredients completely aside, it is highly unregulated. The sources of meat are not well regulated, how those sources are processed is not well regulated, etc etc etc. We end up with a product that dehydrated protein and carbs, coated with a tasty layer of fat to make it palatable, and stored unrefridgerated in an air-permeable bag. Carbs, fat, warm temps, exposure....a perfect bacteria breeding ground. And let's not forget the unregulated process of making it to start - kibble contamination is very common. And because it is not as well regulated and inspected, a contaminated batch is much less likely to be caught and recalled. And yes, recalls happen of course with kibble too, just as with other foods - for bacteria, and even worse sometimes for horrible chemical contaminations. I am sure you know or have heard most of this already, I'm not trying to sound patronizing by any means, but it can be so hard to stand strong when the so-called experts are telling you you are wrong, so it's nice to be reminded of the facts every now and then. Reminded that you are doing the right thing. Ferrets are physiologically designed to handle raw meat - it's simple, basic biology. And if they weren't equipped to handle the bacteria that comes with raw meat, then there wouldn't be any carnivore species alive now because they all would have died off millennia ago. You can't argue with basic science and common sense....
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2016 11:53:56 GMT -5
Thank you.
How often did you give Reishi? W/food?
Are the capsules you used 1000 mg/2 capsules?
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Post by katt on Jul 30, 2016 15:25:26 GMT -5
I would have to look when I get back home, which will not be until mid-Aug. It was given daily. What are you wanting to use Reishi for though? I thought you said Suga has not had any IBD issues? Supplements are medications - they should only be used if absolutely needed.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2016 21:04:45 GMT -5
Sorry I didn't check in yesterday, I wasn't feeling too well. Hills funds my course (I'm studying to become a Vet Nurse).... I'm the only raw feeder... clearly... and I've been feeling like a sheep in a lions enclosure. The posters are like wallpapers, it's crazy.) On the meat side of things, I agree with Katt. I was reading up about the regulations and it is crazy tight. It doesn't look like they do much when we see them in stores, but alot goes on before the meat goes to supermarkets. It's totally different compared to the "Pet grade" meat that goes into pet food. (That is still closely regulated, but compared to human grade they are quite sloppy, hence the reason we see alot of recalls throughout the year.) As of this year I've seen... around 8 recalls relating to S or E.Coli, however they were all- believe it or not, human foods, salads (& nut mixes I think) to be exact. People don't really make a huge deal out of these, Unless a human gets sick, however people like to use the whole E.coli Salmonella idea to scare people out of raw feeding. Ferrets may not necessarily get ill from a contaminated food. Ferret stomach is a bacteria colonising deterrent and this basically means that the environment in the ferret stomach discourages any bacteria from taking over the host. A ferrets digestive system is very short (only 3-4 hours) so that leaves no time for the salmonella which needs 12-72 hours, or even e.coli, which needs 3-4 days to incubate. That makes it highly unlikely that these illnesses would affect the ferret. However, for humans, we can obviously get sick- this is the sole reason vets or other disapproving people like to make an argument out of. Sure, Humans could get sick (given any circustances, anyone could get sick), but it were as easy to get sick as so many seem to claim when making this crazy argument against a raw feeder, we probably would have by now and what about prior to feeding raw, if we ate or handle raw meat. Butchers handle meat on a regular basis and we never hear about them getting sick from E.Coli or Salmonella (at least where I am...). It's even rare to find people getting sick from human grade meat because they take extreme care and precautions to ensure nothing gets contaminated. Last time I heard something of humans getting sick from meat was when they ate at a resturant and usually resturants source their own meat themselves. But back to the point, precautions is a good idea. When possible, knowing sources of the meat- such as farms, or from hunters, may help to eliminate parasites among other things (when in doubt freeze, but keep in mind of freeze resistant problems like Trichinella etc. I tend to check eggs for cracks before I buy them. (Anything can contaminate a cracked egg, so It's a habit now since I only buy eggs for ferrets.) I personally would avoid self treating unless it's absolutely needed, like Katt said. It would also be a good idea to seek the opinion of a holistic vet or a vet who knows about these treatments prior to starting any treatments. Some things will interfere with medications, this is why it is a good idea to get an opinion from a vet beforehand.
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Post by katt on Jul 31, 2016 1:42:01 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2016 8:28:04 GMT -5
Thank you. Do you give once/day? With food?
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Post by katt on Jul 31, 2016 13:40:16 GMT -5
Thank you. Do you give once/day? With food? How it's given depends on what you are using it for. What are you using it for?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2016 19:02:18 GMT -5
Lynphoma.
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Post by katt on Aug 1, 2016 1:57:08 GMT -5
I'd ask Heather or Sherry. In IBD I always use it for flares, MCT people tend to do Pulse therapy. Lymphoma I'd assume your just continue to give it daily. I mix it into the food, but it does have a strong taste so start by adding it in gradually. Speaking of, how is adding the raw soup going? How much are you up to, and how is your girly taking it?
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