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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2016 0:58:40 GMT -5
Hi Kathryn! I'm so sorry for being randomly absent. I thought I bookmarked the thread but noticed I wasn't getting the notifications. I just read through the posts that I missed, sounds like it has been quite a stressful time for you. I'm sorry to hear about Suga and Honey Bun.
The best thing about feeding raw is that it can actually be done on a budget. You're able to get 6 protein types, thats actually really good. Is this for muscle, organs and bone in meats? Since its local, you may be able to ask down the price or get discounts if you become a frequent customer.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2016 13:06:40 GMT -5
Thank you.
I can get chicken hearts/livers, turkey livers. I was able to get goat, lamb, pork and beef organs locally but they have recently started putting most of their organs in their pet food. As a result, that source is unreliable. Any other organ meats I have to order 30# or 60# cases. I can get chicken, turkey, pork, beef, lamb and goat muscle proteins locally.
Vet rad said today that he thinks Honey Bun has a mass in her anterior chest.
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Post by katt on Jul 22, 2016 14:23:42 GMT -5
Oh no I am so sorry. Poor girlie. Did he say what the next steps are...?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2016 16:37:57 GMT -5
Thank you. Said we could tap but it's risky. Pred trial. Picked up pred from pharmacy. It's Orapred so very heavy syrupy cherry. Looking for another option.
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Post by katt on Jul 22, 2016 19:40:40 GMT -5
Prednisolone or Prednisone? Prednisone is better for ferrets - easier on their livers. Hopefully you can find a less sugary version. Plain would be fine mixed with a little oil or baby food. Honestly though, if it takes a little bit of sugar to make the medicine go down, it's not the end of the world just bc it is such a tiny amount, and sometimes you just have to do whatever it takes to get the meds in. That said, I really hope you can find a non-sugary option. I think most people just get plain, non-flavored pred...? If you have a compounding pharmacy in your area it costs more but they can usually compound stuff into different flavors, and often have chicken flavor as a choice.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2016 20:28:58 GMT -5
Oh geez. ;n; a mass doesn't sound nice at all. Orapred is most likely prednisolone.I wonder if it is listed in my course work (I currently do animal studies and Started last week and we're already head first in medications and drugs) Good luck finding a less sugary one. Syrupy flavours don't taste all that good either <u<
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Post by katt on Jul 23, 2016 1:11:57 GMT -5
What meats have you tried introducing to them before switching to Carnivore Care? You mentioned turkey livers - can you get any other source of heart besides chicken? (Turkey hearts?). I'm thinking turkey would be a good starting protein since they are already getting turkey baby food and doing okay on it. I'd like to have an idea of what proteins you already tried though, and see about getting some heart meat. Chicken should be okay, but turkey would be ideal. Then it's all one protein and if they DO react you aren't left questioning which protein they reacted to.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2016 3:36:18 GMT -5
Sorry, folks. I'm going to need a minute to regroup. I just helped make an angel. Honey Bun was as strong as she was sweet and lovable. She had the most precious spirit. She managed to survive several several misdiagnoses and my always well intentioned care. Tonight she decided she wanted to go run and play with Bubba, Leroy, Belle, Trixie and Bowden and to be able to see again. She deserved to be in a place with no more pain and no more owies and no more fear of either. With a shattered heart, I kissed her, thanked her for bringing so much joy into my life and let her go. D.I.P.
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Post by katt on Jul 23, 2016 5:06:05 GMT -5
Oh no. I am so sorry. She was so lucky to have such a devoted ferret mom fighting in her side and loving her so dearly. She earned her heart key. Ferrets are fragile little flames that burn so bright and so fleetingly. There was no way to see this coming, or to prevent it. Their bodies are just little cancer machines. You did everything in your power to help her and she KNOWS she was loved. She left this world knowing they her mommy loves her with all of her heart. <3 **hugs** She is happy and at peace, pain free and dancing wildly at the Bridge. If only it didn't hurt so much for those left behind. Sending healing thoughts your way.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2016 8:08:18 GMT -5
Its always hard having to let go of a beloved pet. It sounds like she had a fantastic ferrent and had a wonderful life while in your care. My thoughts are woth you and suga. *hugs*
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2016 8:03:09 GMT -5
Thank you both.
I have not checked out the cornish hen available locally to see whether it has any additives. There is a farm a couple of hours away that has rabbit, but only every other week and then only when they haven't decided to donate it. Not reliable. I tried for a few weeks to get some and gave up. Other than that, what I have listed is what is available to me.
Suga was on kibble [Marshall's, Natural Gold, Zero Carb] until May when she started refusing to eat and having constipated and otherwise strange stools. I put her on Carnivore Care with added turkey baby food. She has had a single taste of soupie. During the winter, we did try just turkey baby food once and Fancy Feast canned cat food once in an attempt to get them off kibble. Honey Bun's BGs dropped both times so they went back on kibble. Otherwise, no meats. If I had known how to put them on meats, I would have. I was doing constant research, calling vet schools and holistic vets, and got nowhere so they stayed on kibble.
Do either of you know anyone who has used essiac tea or Reishi mushroom that could answer some questions for me?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2016 1:22:50 GMT -5
It's great to hear that you've been hunting around for multiple sources. It can be quite difficult, especially when you live in a rural area. Knowing your options is probably the first most important part of starting out on a transition, in my opinion at least. I live in a ... semi-rural area I guess and tend to buy in bulk from interstate. Thought I have options available, they are so over priced for my budget, and not enough proteins for bone in meats. I found a fantastic source online called Instincto. They sell all these raw things such as organs, muscle and bones, very helpful since they have a ton available. Since instincto is australian, Similar places that could be of some use to you would be like Hair today, or, My pet carnivore. Online sources are very helpful, though some places would have a certain requirement such as orders over 5kg, or minimum $50 or so prices, some may be pricey for shipping, however some may even ship for free. It may be worth having a google around online to see if there are any online sources like this that may be helpful for you or if they would be a nice option. Either way, I think the proteins you have available are pretty good, especially for starting out. A majority of the weekly menu is bone in meat, so having at least 2 or more proteins for bone in meat would be a good idea. (I personally use Duck and Turkey, with chicken every now and then.) Things such as Chicken wings/necks/frames even, Turkey wings/necks (some necks may be thick and dense, so they require to be chopped up down to an acceptable size for our ferrets.), the CGH is also great if it is available to you, Duck makes another great protein for bone in meat. Keep an eye out and grab any when they go on sale. Have you considered in buying in bulk in the future? (Bulk doesn't necessarily have to be large amounts, especially if you have a small freezer space.) It probably isn't a good option at the moment, either money wise or even to start out with since you need to make sure the proteins are ok with Suga beforehand. We tend to tell people to do one protein type at a time, so this way we can see if a ferret has any reactions or intolerances before buying that specific protein in bulk and having to waste it if the protein turns out to be a bad choice. However once the protein has been "trialled" for a period of time, it is then it is a great idea having a stocked up freezer (even when you buy in bulk locally when there are specials) Buying directly from farms is also a fantastic option. Keep an eye out for any deals when it comes to farms, or even give them your details and let them know that you are willing if they have free or meat/whole animals for sale. If you know of any hunters, or know people who know hunters, then that is another option, but remember to always freeze for around 2 weeks minimum. I think a majority of people freeze for up to 5 weeks to make sure they eliminate parasites and such. Ah, interesting that you mention essiac tea and reishi. Someone brought up the essiac tea on the facebook group and I asked the other admins about it since it was something I've never heard about before. Heather mentioned "You have to balance the timing between meals, pred and the Essiac tea." & Sherry gave me a thread on Essiac Tea. holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/754/essiac-teaI've heard about the reishi on multiple occasions but have seemed to have misplaced the thread on it. I think it was this one. holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/2627/reishi-mushroomsI don't have any experience on either, however I think katt may have used the reishi before?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2016 9:52:44 GMT -5
Thank you for all the helpful information.
Am I just looking for organs to go with my muscle proteins? I do not have any way to grind bone.
I will try the new suggestions for online sources. For those I had already searched, shipping costs were prohibitive.
What is CGH? Commercial grind _? What specifics am I looking for as far as balance?
It is really frustrating trying to find the raw products. I spent almost 2 months sourcing and even buying a small amount of meats. I made sure I had everything in order before I submitted my mentor request. Then the sources started becoming unreliable. They're still there. They just don't make product available all the time or even on a predictable basis. Some I have to depend on to deliver to the organic co-op in the area because they are to far away to travel to/from. I can't afford to run out and them not have product available. Some sources I found available for ordering to be delivered through local butchers require 30# or 60# orders per meat.
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Post by Heather on Jul 26, 2016 13:56:40 GMT -5
CGH= Cornish Game Hen....it's just a chicken over here that's been killed off smaller. Bone in meats that can be suggested that are easily available....duck, pheasant, cornish game hen, turkey (bones are bit big depending on the bird) rabbit, these are rarely available fresh and you have to look for them in the frozen food section (at least here) Sourcing is one of the most difficult areas of raw feeding. Having multiple sources is often the best way to go, it's also another reason why feeding multiple proteins is so necessary I've not had the opportunity to use Essiac tea, I was going to but the ferret passed on before I was able to get all the information and the product (it was harder to get then). The other thing to note I'm talking the original tea, not the newer recipe. I've not researched it at all ciao
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Post by katt on Jul 26, 2016 16:03:33 GMT -5
Well since you haven't been able to try any meat yet, we can start with a standard chicken soup. I was just suggesting starting with turkey since she's been getting turkey baby food and thought she'd had allergy issues before. Carnivore care is chicken based, and you have access to all of the chicken parts you need. We can start with a smallish batch of soup and work it in gradually so there won't be much waste if she does react. Reishi is used for IBD, as an anti-inflammatory, some think it has anti-cancer properties but I suspect that's just the antioxidants, and supposedly it works for MCTs but I've never had any luck with it for that. I use it when Koda is having an IBD flare. It seems to help a little. I use about 1/4 capsule. Machan already covered Essiac tea - I am not familiar with it so I don't have anything to add. What BG readings are you getting right now on the Carnivore Care diet?
Go ahead and get the ingredients you need for the chicken soupies and let us know when you have it all and we can take the next step. In this case I would suggest gradually mixing the raw soupie into her current carnivore care soupie, and gradually increasing the raw while decreasing the CC. That should give us ample time to ease her into it and observe for any reaction.
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