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Post by Heather on May 16, 2016 14:49:31 GMT -5
Name: Amanda HF Forum Username: fatesarrival87 Please confirm that you are 18 years of age or older: 5/5/87 1. Where did you first learn about natural diets for ferrets? From members in three of the FB ferret groups I'm apart of (including Holistic Ferret) 2. Please describe the type of diet you would like assistance in switching your ferret(s) to. Be sure to include if you are interested in feeding whole prey (live or frozen-thawed) and if you are wanting to FULLY switch to a natural diet or PARTIALLY. If you are unsure what kind of diet you want to put your ferrets on, please express that and we can help you find the best type of natural diet for your ferret. I would like both of my ferrets to be completely transitioned to eating only a raw natural diet. 3. Why are you interested in switching your ferrets to a natural diet? The overall health benefits and longevity of your ferrets greatly increase when feeding a natural diet. I want both of my girls to live long and healthy lives minimizing the risks of certain diseases/disorders they could acquire. 4. Do you understand that switching your ferret to a natural diet can be a lengthy, arduous process? Its not an overnight switch. It requires a commitment of several months at minimum. Your HF Mentor will be more then happy to assist you in switching your ferret(s) to a natural diet, but you need to be equally as committed. The switch takes time and effort every single day. It can also be extremely frustrating at times. If you aren't willing to tough out a potentially lengthy switching process, you have major life changes approaching (baby on the way, moving, starting school, getting married/divorced, etc), or limited time due to work, then it might be a better idea to wait on switching your ferret's diet until you have more time. Are you willing and realistically able to make the neccessary time commitment? I am a stay at home mom and will be with the girls almost 24/7 and will also have the assistance from my fiancé in assuring we stay fully committed to our girls' transition to their natural diet. 5. How many ferrets do you currently have? What are their names? Ages? Genders? Do they have any health problems? Are they overweight? Underweight? How long have you had each ferret for? Rosita - 3 months on 5/7 - Female - No health problems - Average weight - Had first wellness visit with vet on 4/23 - Owned for 2 weeks Charlotte - 3 months on 5/7 - Female - Waardy (is deaf) - Average weight - Had first wellness visit with vet on 4/23 - Owned for 2 weeks 6. What diet do you currently feed your ferrets? (Please include all treats, supplements, etc) Do they already eat some form of soup? Both girls eat Orijen Cat and Kibble Introduced egg yolk and coconut oil to both, Rosita was the only one to take to both, Charlotte had no interest Charlotte found a live junebug today while playing and ate the entire thing (it was alive) 7. Have you ever tried to switch your ferrets to a natural diet in the past? If yes, what happened? We tried introducing a chicken heart to the girls over this past weekend (4/23 and 4/24) and on all 4 separate occasions neither of them showed interest (we even placed them in our laps and rubbed a little against their nose on one occasion) 8. What additional information about yourself or your ferrets would you like to share? Rosita is doing very well with litter box training, Charlotte is showing to be very difficult and refusing to use either of the three different types of boxes we have (we have a 4th type that was recommended on the way). 9. How often during the week do you have access to a computer? Daily 10. Please post a picture of each of your ferrets (if possible). 11. Have you met the requirements for this program? Are you at least 18 years of age? Do you have your scale, a place to access meats, hearts, livers, etc? I believe I have met the requirements. I am 28 years old. Both food and weight scales have been purchased. We have a main butcher (Herrell's Market) and secondary (Oakville Butcher Block). Hi and welcome to the mentoring program . In a little while your mentor (FireAngel ), will introduce herself and you can get started on a new adventure in natural ferret care and diets. Please remember to post regularly (daily or as per arranged with your mentor) so that your mentor can assist you move along safely in this adventure. If you experience computer difficulties or are going to be away, please notify your mentor and most of all relax and have fun . Your mentor is here to help you on this journey. ciao
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Post by FireAngel on May 16, 2016 19:29:59 GMT -5
Hi @fatesarrival87 and welcome to your official switching thread! You can read my full mentor profile here if you haven't already, HEREI'd like you to fill in the following information below for each of your little ones just we can can have full record here:Ferret Name Gender: Age: Weight: Health Issues: Current Diet: Biggest transitioning challenges so far: Photo! Ferret Name Gender: Age: Weight: Health Issues: Current Diet: Biggest transitioning challenges so far: Photo! Ferret Name Gender: Age: Weight: Health Issues: Current Diet: Biggest transitioning challenges so far: Photo! I know you have been doing great on your own with the help of Celene but here's my spiel anyway (giggle) Here is an example menu for a week of a full frankenprey diet. Monday am: edible bone in meat Monday pm: edible bone in meat (or muscle)*
Tuesday am: edible bone in meat Tuesday pm: muscle meat
Wednesday am: edible bone in meat Wednesday pm: heart
Thursday am: edible bone in meat Thursday pm: edible bone in meat (or muscle)*
Friday am: edible bone in meat Friday pm: ½ heart + ¼ liver + ¼ other organ
Saturday am: edible bone in meat Saturday pm: muscle meat
Sunday am: edible bone in meat Sunday pm: ½ liver + ½ other organBasically, per week this works out to: 9 meals bone-in meat 2 meals muscle meat 1.5 meals of heart 1.5 meals of liver and another organ Proportionally, their diet should be a minimum of 10% heart, 5% liver and 5% another organ like kidney, brain or pancreas, about 10%-15% bone (requirements can vary based on the individual ferret), with the remaining 60%-70% being muscle meat. One last thing I'd like to cover is what I need from you and what you can expect from me. I prefer you post a detailed update at least every other day (daily is best but we all have things come up including me!). The details I need are what and how much was given vs. how much was eaten, how receptive was your ferret/s, what you did to encourage them to eat. I also hope that you will feel comfortable enough with me to ask anything you are wondering about including health issues. I promise I will always do my best to answer them and if I do not know the answer I will ask more experienced mentors. There will be short quizzes to help me know that you know what you need to. Once your ferrets are fully transitioned to their new diet, there will be a final test and menu review in order for you to graduate. Can't wait to get started!
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2016 9:22:34 GMT -5
Hi @fatesarrival87 and welcome to your official switching thread! You can read my full mentor profile here if you haven't already, HEREI'd like you to fill in the following information below for each of your little ones just we can can have full record here:Ferret Name Gender: Age: Weight: Health Issues: Current Diet: Biggest transitioning challenges so far: Photo! Ferret Name Gender: Age: Weight: Health Issues: Current Diet: Biggest transitioning challenges so far: Photo! Ferret Name Gender: Age: Weight: Health Issues: Current Diet: Biggest transitioning challenges so far: Photo! I know you have been doing great on your own with the help of Celene but here's my spiel anyway (giggle) Here is an example menu for a week of a full frankenprey diet. Monday am: edible bone in meat Monday pm: edible bone in meat (or muscle)*
Tuesday am: edible bone in meat Tuesday pm: muscle meat
Wednesday am: edible bone in meat Wednesday pm: heart
Thursday am: edible bone in meat Thursday pm: edible bone in meat (or muscle)*
Friday am: edible bone in meat Friday pm: ½ heart + ¼ liver + ¼ other organ
Saturday am: edible bone in meat Saturday pm: muscle meat
Sunday am: edible bone in meat Sunday pm: ½ liver + ½ other organBasically, per week this works out to: 9 meals bone-in meat 2 meals muscle meat 1.5 meals of heart 1.5 meals of liver and another organ Proportionally, their diet should be a minimum of 10% heart, 5% liver and 5% another organ like kidney, brain or pancreas, about 10%-15% bone (requirements can vary based on the individual ferret), with the remaining 60%-70% being muscle meat. One last thing I'd like to cover is what I need from you and what you can expect from me. I prefer you post a detailed update at least every other day (daily is best but we all have things come up including me!). The details I need are what and how much was given vs. how much was eaten, how receptive was your ferret/s, what you did to encourage them to eat. I also hope that you will feel comfortable enough with me to ask anything you are wondering about including health issues. I promise I will always do my best to answer them and if I do not know the answer I will ask more experienced mentors. There will be short quizzes to help me know that you know what you need to. Once your ferrets are fully transitioned to their new diet, there will be a final test and menu review in order for you to graduate. Can't wait to get started! So very nice to meet you Heather! A little about myself: I'm a stay at home mom. I turned 29 May 5th. My son, Caleb is 8, and in 2nd grade. I had to leave my job due to a chronic pain disorder, but things have been better these past 4 months. I'm allergic to pretty much everything with fur or feathers, so my fiancé (Todd; we will be together 10 years this July) and I began researching possibilities of animals we could have once Caleb was older. Our three fuzz butts have brought so much joy back into the house and they are such a blessing to have, especially since I'm home pretty much all the time. Both Todd and myself are apart of 3 other groups and are open to learning as much as we possibly can to take the best care of our babies. I definitely will be asking tons of questions as we go through this process and I am so very excited and honored to work with you. Ferret Name: Rosita (AKA Rose, Rosie, Rosita Bonita) - Marshall's - Dominant female - Momma's girl - Loves her snowman towel and stealing from her sister's stash Gender: Female Age: 3 months (2/7/16) Weight: 1.51 lbs Health Issues: Waardy (partially deaf) Current Diet: Chicken and pork based soupies w/ diced chunks, chicken wing Biggest transitioning challenges so far: She took an extra 5 days of coaxing to take to the raw (we had to place crushed kibble in the raw and gradually decrease the amount over those days); she recently (the past two days) has not been eating as much as she was after finally getting her to eat raw only (I have tried egg yolk, spoon feeding, finger feeding, and yesterday had to hold the chicken wing while she ate the wing tip - she has been grabbing and stashing her food and it's been very difficult ensuring she's eating enough) Photo! Ferret Name: Charlotte - Marshall's - Dr Jekyl and Mr Hyde (sweet and innocent until amped up during play; she plays very rough and loves to pounce you) Gender: Female Age: 3 months (2/7/16) Weight: 1.55 lbs Health Issues: Waardy (completely deaf) Current Diet: Chicken and pork based soupies w/ larger chunks, chicken wing, has eaten chunks of pork only Biggest transitioning challenges so far: Adjusting the bone meal in her soup (we've had a lot of soft stools, diarrhea the very first few days of eating only raw); other than that, she went straight off the kibble to eating raw and was the first to eat a chicken wing Photo! Ferret Name: Heisenberg (AKA Walter White) - Marshall's - Such a gentleman with the girls, very down to earth, loves to give licks and doesn't bite unless you get in his rice box ;-P ) Gender: Male Age: 3 months (2/7/16 - 2/13/16) Weight: 2.04 lbs Health Issues: None Current Diet: Chicken and pork based soupies w/ large chunks, has eaten both pork and chicken chunks only, chicken wing Biggest transitioning challenges so far: He was pretty much as easy going as Charlotte and took to the wing second. He's our chunk butt. <3 Photo! HERE IS A PHOTO OF ALL THREE SLEEPING LAST NIGHT (it's so hard to get photos of them while they are awake, LOL) - Charlotte on the far left, Heisenberg in the middle, and Rosita on the right
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2016 17:22:16 GMT -5
5/17
8:30AM Woke up a little later than planned, so only had 6 TBS of pre-made chicken based soupie (with chunks) to give to the fuzz butts to start out with. Had to put son on the bus before making second batch.
All were served from a bowl and given 2 TBS of soup/chunk mixture (both C and R were coaxed into eating their soupie)
R - 1 TBS C - 1 TBS H - 2 TBS
Rosita has started a new habit of dining and dashing (she'll take a mouthful of food and run behind the couch), Charlotte will do this as well. I try my best to feed them all separately (especially the girls) but they all are usually always up together in the morning.
When I came back in after dropping Caleb off on the bus, Rosita acted like she was still hungry. So before I made the second batch of soup/chunk mix I prepped a chicken wing I had thawed out and gave to her in a secluded spot. She chewed on it for at least 5 minutes but then lost interest. Charlotte had fallen asleep under the couch by this point so I tried to see if H would like the wing his sister barely touched. He gnawed on it for a few minutes as well then lost interest.
11:00 AM (Chicken based soup/chunk mix that I made after the earlier morning feeding) - Served in bowl
H - 4 TBS of soup/chunk mix C - Had no interest (sat in room with her for 15 min off and on and tried coaxing her to eat) R - Was still sleeping
11:30 (left food sitting out in feeding room) C - She snuck in and ate about 1 TBS (she stopped when I went in to check on her; tried my best to be quiet and not disturb her); H came back in behind her and ate the rest of C's food, which was around 3 TBS)
12:00PM
R - 1 TBS @ a time of soup/chunk mix - Eating 2 TBS altogether (allowed her to dine and dash behind couch, tried sitting in room with her to coax her into eating from bowl and staying put for 10 min before letting her dine and dash)
3:00PM - Fed from bowl
R - 1 TBS (dine and dash behind couch; this is the only way she will eat the past couple days, not certain on why) C - 4.5 TBS (she ate 2TBS via dine and dash until I had to get Caleb off bus; left her in feeding room with door closed off and came back in 10 minutes later to find she had eaten another 2.5TBS) H - Sleeping
5:00 - Fed from bowl (made pork based batch of soup/chunk mix and took 1/2 of the liver, 1/2 of the heart, and 6 OZ of meat from the soup mix, cutting the liver and heart in diced chunks and 6OZ of meat in large chunks
H - Gave 1 OZ of meat chunks and small portion of liver/heart diced mixture to try and he ate all of it no problem; he was still hungry so gave him 1 TBS of soup/chunk mix at a time and ate 2 TBS total
5:30 - Fed from bowl
R - 1 TBS out of the 2 given. Coaxed her off and on for 15 minutes before letting her go. Left TBS out for her to come back to later. She ran off and began playing with H.
We will be going to the butcher tomorrow to purchase more chicken wings, pork chops, and beef; will also have to go to other butcher to purchase chicken necks soon; will be until next week before we get our lamb, bone in veal, and whole rabbit
QUESTIONS 1.) Should I be worried about the decrease in amount of food C and R are eating. Both are using the restroom. R's poos have been looking great and less smelly while C's are back and forth (loose, good, smelly). I know they are getting used to eating the raw now and won't eat as often, but was just curious if this is something to worry about or normal? Could it be because they aren't being able to dine and dash that they are refusing to eat as much? I am keeping in mind that males eat more usually than females and their appetite can increase/decrease depending upon season (is this correct).
2.) Any pointers on how I can stop this dine and dash? It only started 2 days ago really and can't run the risk of having them leave meat/food inside our couch. We'd have to tear it apart and destroy the couch to get inside it.
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Post by FireAngel on May 17, 2016 21:17:57 GMT -5
QUESTIONS 1.) Should I be worried about the decrease in amount of food C and R are eating. Both are using the restroom. R's poos have been looking great and less smelly while C's are back and forth (loose, good, smelly). I know they are getting used to eating the raw now and won't eat as often, but was just curious if this is something to worry about or normal? Could it be because they aren't being able to dine and dash that they are refusing to eat as much? I am keeping in mind that males eat more usually than females and their appetite can increase/decrease depending upon season (is this correct). Yes males do tend to eat more then females as a general rule of thumb. Yes they may not be eating as much because they are not being allowed to eat in private and graze all day as is their natural tendencies. Yes their appetites do tend to change seasonally (although I have not witnessed this in my crew so far. They are eating just as much now as they did in the winter.)2.) Any pointers on how I can stop this dine and dash? It only started 2 days ago really and can't run the risk of having them leave meat/food inside our couch. We'd have to tear it apart and destroy the couch to get inside it. The best way to prevent the eating a bit and stashing the rest is to give them a private area such as a feeding den to eat in. There is another option that I use, which is to feed them in a cage. I/we are not home all day to allow complete free roam all the time so, when i let them out of the cage for the 3-6 hours a day they get out to roam and play I take their food up.If I notice they are going to the cage often I will put the food and them in there for a bit and then let them back out when they have gotten their snack. Their is a 3rd option also that works for some and that is to use shower hooks to hook the food to the side of their feeding den or cage to prevent them from taking it out. This did not work for me as Missy just pulled at the meat or whole prey until it came off the hook! (headwall) It may work for you though!I love the detailed reports! :thankyou: Are you looking to follow a frankenprey only menu or are you hoping to add in some whole prey also?
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Post by FireAngel on May 17, 2016 22:32:48 GMT -5
Also what makes you say the girls are waardys?
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2016 7:54:59 GMT -5
Also what makes you say the girls are waardys? In our butcher order we do have 3lbs of whole rabbit (skinned) coming in next week and we also are planning to incorporate feeder mice and possibly other whole prey as well. The reason why we believe the girls are both Waardy's are due to certain features, Charlotte being deaf, and Rosita being very hard of hearing (we sometimes believe she is fully deaf). Both girls have smaller heads, narrow eyes, Charlotte has the blaze markings (which unfortunately most of the blaze do have the genetic defect). The admin also pointed it out when I first posted pictures of the girls. We didn't know enough about it then, so she made it clear that Rosita looked the part as well (at that point we only knew Charlotte had it).
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Post by FireAngel on May 18, 2016 9:05:12 GMT -5
Being deaf is a genetic defect on it's own and often accompanies waardenburgs but is not necessarily an indicator of it. The physical attributes are an indicator but as they are still growing, they may actually grow out of them. How do they act? Are they sure on their feet? Do they run and play well? How is their jumping and climbing skills?
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2016 9:58:02 GMT -5
Being deaf is a genetic defect on it's own and often accompanies waardenburgs but is not necessarily an indicator of it. The physical attributes are an indicator but as they are still growing, they may actually grow out of them. How do they act? Are they sure on their feet? Do they run and play well? How is their jumping and climbing skills? This is definitely new to me, I just assumed. I'm glad you are bringing this up. Both Rosita and Charlotte are very feisty and aggressive players (Charlotte gets too rough most times with us as well when we play, no bite filter, but we are working on that. She was the worst the first week we had her, but only bites hard during play). They have great balance, are excellent climbers/jumpers, go up and down stairs like pros, and have no issues with gate or motor skills. Charlotte is a heavy sleeper (I assume because she is deaf) and since we've gotten Heisenberg, he will actually help get her up.
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Post by FireAngel on May 18, 2016 12:11:45 GMT -5
This is a great thread with a ton of information about Waardenburg. Waardy? Keep in mid that the actual disorder and the signs and symptoms that are mentioned are for humans but many if not all can be related to ferrets in some way. They can have the physical defects and nothing else or they can have the behavior/gate issues and not the physical ones.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2016 17:34:02 GMT -5
This is a great thread with a ton of information about Waardenburg. Waardy? Keep in mid that the actual disorder and the signs and symptoms that are mentioned are for humans but many if not all can be related to ferrets in some way. They can have the physical defects and nothing else or they can have the behavior/gate issues and not the physical ones. I have read over this thread and will share with my fiancé tomorrow (he is working late tonight). I was almost 100% sure that both were Waardy's, but now I'm not so much anymore. Is there any way we can diagnose them for sure? Does the vet do this? Is it a tiered decision (so many genetic markers equals the syndrome)?
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Post by FireAngel on May 18, 2016 18:51:35 GMT -5
It is a genetic test and I am not sure many vets do it or the cost for it. I would imagine though as with humans any genetic testing is pretty expensive. I believe my Belle is a Waardy, she has a funny gait and is very clumsy, does not jump well and just acts, well derpy for lack of a better term! For me though it does not really matter if she is or isn't. I am going to love her and do what I need to for her anyway. Belle is my marked white, she had a grey stripe down her back also and the tip of her tail is grey. She lost the stripe with her first real shed though.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2016 22:36:49 GMT -5
5/18
8:00AM All three were up and had no interest in food, they wanted to play
8:30AM - Fed from bowl R - Had 3 TBS left out in feeding room and she ate 1.5 TBS of pork based soup/chunk mix H - Ate 1 TBS from his 3 TBS left out then came to where R's food was and ate 1 TBS from her bowl C - No interest still, fell asleep inside couch (placed H and R in cage since they had both eaten after they played for a little while longer)
9:25AM - Fed from bowl C - Snuck from couch and noticed her going in and out from feeding room. Gave 3 TBS from earlier feeding time I had put in the fridge and she ate almost all of it (dined and dashed behind couch)
10:10AM - Fed from bowl H - Ate remaining 2 TBS from earlier feeding I had placed in fridge, gave 1 more TBS and ate that too
10:20 - From bowl R - Gave 3 TBS of pork base soup/chunk mix and ate 1 TBS then lost interest
10:55AM - Fed from bowl H - Found R's food left from 10:20 feeding and ate 2 TBS of what was left
2:00PM - Fed from bowl C - Gave 2 TBS chicken based soup/half chunks and ate 1 TBS (left rest out to sit just in case)
2:30PM - Fed from bowl C - Ate remaining 1 TBS from 2:00 feeding, gave 1 TBS more and ate 1/2 (found 4 chunks of chicken under couch)
3:10PM - Fed from bowl H - Gave 3 TBS chicken/chunk mix and ate back and forth within 45 min
7:05PM - Fed from bowl R - Woke up from very long nap, Gave 3 TBS chicken based soup/less chunks mix (kept light off in feeding room to try different setting) and she ate 2.5 TBS (dine and dash)
7:45PM - Fed from bowl
C - Ate .5 TBS left from R's bowl, then gave another 2 TBS (lost interest and H came up behind and ate those) 8:30PM - Fed from bowl
R - Gave 2 TBS (ate 1/2 then H ate the rest once she was done)
9:40 - Fed from bowl
C - Gave 3 TBS (gobbled it all up, no dine and dash)
10:05 - Fed from bowl
R - Gave 2 TBS (gobbled up in feeding room), gave another TBS (dine and dashed but ate that too)
My fiancé had to go into work early today (I don't drive), so we couldn't get the chicken wings we wanted to give the fuzz butts today. He is off tomorrow and will be buying bulk in chicken wings, buying more pork, buying another protein (beef) to try, and checking to see if they carry chicken necks. Still waiting on our call in order of bone in veal, lamb, and whole rabbit.
Todd will also be cleaning out our older cage (couldn't today again because of having to go into work early) to be used as a feeding cage to help with the dine and dash situation and to keep Heisenberg from stealing his sisters food.
NOT SURE IF I SHOULD SHARE, BUT WANTED YOU TO KNOW I AM DOCUMENTING THEIR POO'S TOO Charlotte's poo's started out a little green in tint and grainy early this morning when Todd got home (1:00AM) but became much better over the day, Heisenberg's poo's are on point, and Rosita's started out a little loose but became more solid as the day progressed and she ate more
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Post by FireAngel on May 19, 2016 20:23:29 GMT -5
Sounds like they are doing great. :goodjob: It is great that you are documenting the poop's and if you want to share them daily you can, otherwise you only need to if you have a concern about them and then I would like pictures please. I'm glad you'll be getting some beef soon and more wings!
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2016 22:05:18 GMT -5
5/19
8:00AM - Fed from bowl (chicken based soup/chunk mix)
H - Gave 2 TBS (ate 1 TBS), was more interested in the chunks R - Gave 2 TBS (ate all), gave another 2 TBS (ate all) C - Gave 1 TBS (ate all) then went to H's bowl and ate remaining soupie he had left (1 TBS)
8:30AM - New batch of chicken base soup/chunk mix; fed from bowl
H - Gave 3 TBS (ate all) R - Gave 2 TBS (dine and dashed; ate 1.5 TBS) C - Gave 2 TBS (dine and dashed)
11:00AM - Fed from bowl
R & C - Gave 2 TBS each (both ate 1 TBS a piece; found a few chunks stashed behind couch)
12:15PM - Fed from bowl
H - Gave 4 TBS
3:30PM - Fed from plate
C & H - Gave wing (C ate wing tip and H ate wing tip/meat/marrow); C tried stashing wing after eating wing tip then lost interest
7:30PM - Fed from bowl/plate
H - Gave 3 TBS (ate all; still acted hungry afterwards so tried giving wing from earlier but only wanted to stash it so took it away)
R - Gave wing (ate little of bone and some marrow; coaxed her for an hour and a half off and on to eat the wing); gave 3 TBS of chicken based soup/chunk mix after she lost interest in wing but didn't touch it (H came in at 9:00PM and ate those 3 TBS)
11:00PM - Fed from bowl
H - Gave 6 TBS altogether of chicken base soup/chunk mix (2 TBS at a time; ate it all)
2:00AM - Ate from bowl in cage
R - Woke me up (heard cage rattling); gave 3 TBS pork/chunk mix (ate all of it)
COMMENTS
I'm wondering if Heisenberg is going on a growing spurt or if he is a grazer (has no will power to stop eating once he's full)...What are your thoughts?
Any tips on how we can help Rosita eat more without any issues? She was fed first all day, secluded, and in three different locations (regular feeding room, cage, and kitchen)
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