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Post by Heather on Feb 22, 2016 21:28:22 GMT -5
Katie Rocque Funkelt 24 1. I did my research on ferrets when I decided to get them and my mad Google skills brought me to this website among others I read article after article about insulinoma and obligate carnivores so once I learned there was an alternative to kibble I never turned back. 2. I've been doing the soupies since December and gradually introduced slivers and chunks. I have a mother in law that raises fowl and bunnies so I'd like to get my ferrets to the point that we can use what she culls instead of throwing them out. Whole prey is my ideal feeding choice but these guys are being butts about eating their bones. I'd like to at least get to frankenprey. 3. The benefits of a raw diet speak for themselves and pays for itself (in avoidable vet bills). 4. I'm 2.5 months into this switch, there's no going back! My ferrets probably wouldn't remember what kibble is. I am a STAHM so I have the time for these spoiled brats. 5. Arya, F, is 5mo old. I got her at the same time/place I got Aris, M, 6mo old. Arya used to be the runt but you can't tell amymore! They have both grown quite a bit. Solid but not fat. Ive had them both since late November. No known health problems. 6. Soupies! Well, more like chunkies now. They occasionally have bone in such as cornish hen or turkey/chicken necks but will not eat the bone, even when crushed. 7. I successfully switched them to raw 8. Additional info- I am interested in the behavioral side of ferrets. I'd like to learn how to train them, if possible. I'm also a book/reading junkie so I'd love recommendations. 9. I have a smart phone and a desktop so I have complete access to the internet. 10. Aris Hi and welcome to the mentoring program . In a little while your mentor ( Poncesmom & Maja01 ), will introduce themselves and you can get started on a new adventure in natural ferret care and diets. Please remember to post regularly (daily or as per arranged with your mentors) so that your mentors can assist you move along safely in this adventure. If you experience computer difficulties or are going to be away, please notify your mentors and most of all relax and have fun (dance) . Your mentors are here to help you on this journey. ciao
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Post by maja01 on Feb 23, 2016 9:20:38 GMT -5
Hi, Funkelt! We have our official switching thread, yeay! I guess I am just as thrilled as you are, since this is my first switch as a mentor My name is Maja, and I am from Slovenia - a tiny country in Europe. Since english is not my first language, I might sometimes be clumsy in explaining things and sometimes I just make up some words If you will not understand something, please, feel free to ask. As I mentioned, this is my first time officially mentoring a switch, but I have switched quite some ferrets to raw. Atm, I have 5 ferrets - 4 youngsters and one oldie with IBD. You can read some more about me in Meet your mentor thread: holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/176/meet-mentor?page=2Poncesmom will be here around if we needed any support. So, ... During a switch I will ask you to fill up this "form" every Sunday/Monday so we will have track where we are. 1. Ferret's name: 2. Ferret's weight: 3. Ferret has eaten "X" amount on average per meal. 4. Stools on various proteins. 5. Activity levels: 6. Weekly menu:Example would be: Vincent, 3lbs 2oz(1417g), small chicken wing chopped into 2" pieces, bone and all. Stools good colour and consistency. Played as per normal. Vega, 3lbs 2oz(1417g), soup. Stools sligtly more runny. Played as per normal.
Weekly menue: write down what they eate every day - and every meal (f.i.: monday m.: chicken wings, monday e.: beef heart in chunks, ...)Also, to help us make sure your ferrets are doing well during his switch, a picture from above showing his body shape clearly would be appreciated bi-weekly, but is not essential.
You are required to post every second day during the "soup" stage of the transition. From the "sliver" stage, through to large chunks, you will be required to post a minimum of every 3 days. Once you hit the large chunks, once a week will be acceptable. If you wish to post into your thread more often, that will be MORE than welcome The above are simply the minimum requirements so we can help with sticky spots, and not have to "catch up" to where you are presently at. Failure to post as required will result in your switch coming to a standstill and will result in two warnings before being dropped from the mentoring program. If something comes up, and you need to be away, please contact your mentor letting her know how long you will be absent.I know you did some great job allready with Arya and Aris - please write down what are they eating at the moment - wich proteins (f.i.: chicken, beef, pork, ...), on what stage are you at the moment (f.i. they both eat chunks 0,5x0,5", Aris eats chicken wings tips, ...) and what kind of meat have you tried (f.i.: I have tried chicken and rabbit meat and bone in meat, beef hearts + they eat chicken liver, beef kiddneys, but they refuse beef liver, I have tried mouse pinkies, but they left it, ...). I would also like to know if are you having trouble with getting any kind of meat or organ. During the switch we will also cover some theory, so that you will know why are you feeding something and why the exact amount ... We will also do some nice little quizes every week Btw, since i am from European part of Earth there might be some delay in answering sometime. If you think it is urgent, you can either PM on Facebook or ask Poncesmom to jump in. This is it for now from my part. Have fun! (dance)
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2016 20:56:38 GMT -5
Okay, this was quite a lot to write so I hope I didn't forget anything or ramble on! Also, photobucket was acting stupid sending me to porn sites when I was trying to get the picture links O.O So I'll put the pictures in the next post. Aris, aprox 6mo. Marshals ferret. Admittedly I had a very hard time getting weights, even with treats so I can only give a rough estimate of 2lbs, 8oz. He is much larger and stouter than when I got him in November! And so fluffy with his darker winter coat! Arya, aprox 5mo. Marshals ferret. Again, won't sit still for weight no matter the bribe She is close to 2lbs, 2oz. She was the runt, much smaller than her litter mates but now she's almost caught up to her big brother! Both have been on raw since I got them in November, 2015. They took to it like champs. We went from chicken and turkey soupies to slivers and chunks. Chunks are now pinky and thumb tip sizes. They are active and curious. Aris loves to chase cat teaser toys, Arya likes to play more gently. Both went from tummies with teeth to only 4-6oz combined. They eat the same amount. I had been keeping their bowls full at all times but starting this month there was more and more going to waste so now I measure out 2oz in the morning, 2oz when that's gone, and 2oz before bed, though the last meal isn't always touched. Their stools have been a bit fatty and loose recently, foamy after I introduced steak this week. The fat is likely due to them having more turkey than usual (a lot of skin). To address the looser stools I increased bone meal from 3/4 tsp to 1 full tsp a batch so 1tsp bone meal, 8oz muscle, 1oz heart, 1oz liver. They have had chicken, turkey, beef, pork, and salmon muscle meat. Chicken, beef, and pork heart. Chicken and beef liver. Beef liver made the most hated list so I'm currently trying calf liver in the hopes that it's taste isn't as strong. Arya love love looooves chicken feet and other bones though she only crunches and gnaws, she hasn't really eaten a bone yet. Aris is strait offended by chicken feet and has minimal interest in a bone after its been skinned. They will both gnaw on necks and tail. They get farm fresh chicken or quail egg once a week. They snubbed whole mice, even when sliced open and dangling enticing from a string. Aris will catch it then walk away, Arya doesn't care. Ultimately, I would like to go strait frankenprey. I want to have days of heart and days of 1/2 liver, 1/2 other organ. I have been trying and trying to find a supplier of other organs. The hearts I found at halal and Indian shops but they don't carry other organs so I've been trying to contact local farms. I live in Virginia so there's a lot. I recon in spring when the farmers markets open back up I'll have much better luck. Also, my mother in law raises fowl and rabbits so I had her start saving all her culls which range from peanuts and chicks (i know theyre just snacks) to retired breeders. Another thing to note is that I'm at my sisters 1-7 days a week which means we essentially have one big business because the ferrets come with me. She has 3, one of which is Aris' actual litter mate. They all get along famously and eat the same things. Beyond just diet I'm very interested in ferret behaviors and training. Mine have come a long way and no longer nip toes, they know how hard is acceptable for play bites, and are paper trained (mostly lol). Because I'm a stay at home mom right now I usually have quite a lot of time to spend on the floor with them. My 2 yr old is also ferret trained lol I never leave any of them unsupervised. I'd like to work on leash training and tricks like standing up, paw/shake, and roll over. I've already trained them to come when I call (about 80% effective), to use the potty before they can come out of their cage, and to grab my hand a certain way when they want out to play.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2016 8:32:51 GMT -5
Good Morning Ladies. Well we are off and running. maja01 if I use English slang or idioms that you don't understand then please ask and I'll explain. Aris and Arya sound like they are sweet Ferrets. My Juliet who runs our business plays tough and Roamy who is our Warrior Ferret plays rough but only with Juliet. He's gentle and much more of a snuggler. Females usually rule a business and can be little Diva's. Another thing to note is that I'm at my sisters 1-7 days a week which means we essentially have one big business because the ferrets come with me. She has 3, one of which is Aris' actual litter mate. They all get along famously and eat the same things.
It sounds like one big happy business with all five and we'll be working with all of them since they eat the same things. That's great and don't hesitate to ask questions if you have questions about your sister's Ferrets also. Both went from tummies with teeth to only 4-6oz combined. They eat the same amount. I had been keeping their bowls full at all times but starting this month there was more and more going to waste so now I measure out 2oz in the morning, 2oz when that's gone, and 2oz before bed, though the last meal isn't always touched.
As you know Spring is coming and they will eat a little less now. You will also see their Winter coats disappear and they will loose some weight. Don't let this frighten you. It's normal for the Spring time. Since they are already eating raw, they won't be losing kibble fat just getting more muscular. They're both eating a nice normal amount now and all we have to do is get their menu balanced and introduce a few new proteins. You mentioned it's hard to get them to stay still on the scale. Have you tried putting a drop of oil on the scale? That usually holds them still long enough to get a good weight. Do you have some Salmon oil on hand? They already like Salmon so they should enjoy that. Grizzly Salmon oil is a good product and can be found on Amazon. I have been trying and trying to find a supplier of other organs. The hearts I found at halal and Indian shops but they don't carry other organs so I've been trying to contact local farms. I live in Virginia so there's a lot.
Google find Asian markets near your location and then check yelp for reviews to see if they have a nice meat market. A military base will always have Asian markets near them and depending on where you live in Virginia, you should easily find some Asian markets. I was stationed at Langley AFB for a few years. There is also a Navy base near Virginia Beach and an Army base up near Yorktown. If you need help finding some then you can pm me your general location and how far you are willing to drive and I'll search for you. We live in a tiny town with more cows than people so we drive monthly into Nashville for our hearts and organs. Then we stock up. You will need a full meal of Hearts on the Frankenprey diet. Heart is a Muscle Meat meal and not considered an Organ. *(possible test question). Taurine is found in Hearts and is essential for Ferrets. Tongue is a very good backup for a Taurine source. Then you will have two meals of Organs. One meal will be a half portion of Liver plus another Organ. One meal with be a quarter portion of Liver plus a quarter portion of another Organ plus a half meal of Hearts. This works out to their weekly menu being five percent Liver, five percent Other Organ and ten percent Heart which makes up their weekly menu. *(possible test question). We'll talk about Organs in a lesson over the next few days. I'd like to work on leash training and tricks like standing up, paw/shake, and roll over. I've already trained them to come when I call (about 80% effective), to use the potty before they can come out of their cage, and to grab my hand a certain way when they want out to play.
I'll link some training tip threads. There are some really cute ones which are fun to watch and will show you how to teach Aris and Arya some tricks. Salmon oil is a great reward for teaching tricks and clipping nails. holisticferret.proboards.com/thread/268/teaching-ferret-tricksTheir stools have been a bit fatty and loose recently, foamy after I introduced steak this week. The fat is likely due to them having more turkey than usual (a lot of skin). To address the looser stools I increased bone meal from 3/4 tsp to 1 full tsp a batch so 1tsp bone meal, 8oz muscle, 1oz heart, 1oz liver. They have had chicken, turkey, beef, pork, and salmon muscle meat. Chicken, beef, and pork heart. Chicken and beef liver. Beef liver made the most hated list so I'm currently trying calf liver in the hopes that it's taste isn't as strong.
Expect some funky poops while we introduce new proteins. Each Ferret has different bone needs to firm up their stools so let's see how they do on the increased bone meal powder. Beef is not a favorite in my house either. I usually mix up an egg and pour it over their beef meal. Once you find a good market then look for lamb and see if they prefer that over the beef or calf heart. Mine love pork organs though so I use those for organ meals and I buy duck hearts because they love those and they love duck gizzards. I get pricey duck for much less that way. Gizzards are wonderful for cleaning teeth and building jaw strength to help learn to eat those bones. mine are paper trained (mostly lol). Those accidents are also normal. They try hard but everyone is not always 100 percent on the mark. Ferrets also will let you know they are mad at you by missing the paper sometimes. We call that revenge poops. I'd like to give you an overview of the Frankenprey diet so you know what to expect and what to shop for. You've seen this before but it's good to review it. We will have some small tests along the way in order to make sure that you are comfortable with each stage. So here is your first lesson. holisticferretforum.com/natural-diet/raw-diet-the-meat-of-the-site/basic-frankenprey-menu/Take a look at that link and let us know if you have any questions or if anything seems confusing. Being a stay at home Mom is fun and you'll have plenty of time to work with them. I've been a stay at home Mom and loved it. I know how busy you must be since you have a two year old and five ferrets in the house. Life gets stressful but Ferrets are a terrific stress reliever. We're going to have so much fun and learn alot. Maja01 is very experienced with Ferrets and most likely knows much more than I do about them. She studies Veterinary medicine, runs a Ferret Association and has had Ferrets for a few more years than I have. We'll both be learning from her. :wave3:
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Post by maja01 on Feb 24, 2016 9:14:43 GMT -5
Hehe, yes it is a long write - there will be few more on the begining so that I get to know you and your fuzzies a bit better. It is not urgent with pics, just post them when you will have time. I will just put weigts in grams - since it is easier with me, I am really quite lost with converting "oz. thing" by heart But I just installed unit converter app on my phone so that it will be easier to track. Aris, aprox 6mo. 2lbs, 8oz (1190 g) Arya, aprox 5mo. 2lbs, 2oz (1077 g)Arya is quite big for a girl! Especialy for a girl of her age! (it is nothing wrong with that) Great! You did great job. It is much easier to start with youngsters, before they got imprinted on only kibble, but anyway, great job! This is normal, when they growth slows, they start to eat less. You will still see some changes - even tough thir growth (talking aboout lenght) is almost finished they will still continue to develop, change the way they look. Loose their baby fat, get some serious coat, not that fluffy kid coat. As you allready know it, it can happen when you are introducing a new protein or a new organ or meat part. It is totaly normal. You are probably giving them just right amounts - skin + muscle, but with really faty parts you have to be carefull not to give too much, as it can cause pancreatitis = inflamation of pancreas. But this would only happen if one would feed fatty parts in excess, like only turkey/duck skin ... This is in soup form with meat chunks in it? Or you give them mixed meals of meat & organs sprinkled with bone meal? I am asking since at the time of transitioning, especially with multiple ferrets when you are of from soupy stage it is better to stick to sepparated meals, not mixing meats and organs, ... Why? Since you can not tell who eats what (unles you feed them from hand) and one might end eating only muscle meat, the other only organs. That is ok, almost everyone's ferrets at the begining hate one type of organs - you can also say, they stay more fond on some than others even later on, when they are converted to frankenprey. Mine are not exactly fond on spleen ... And is super great that we allready have that kind of variety of proteins - 5 this is great. You have probbaly read it allready, but 3 different protein sources is somehow minimum to keep the diet balanced. It is also great that you have white and red meat and also fish. Now with fish ... you can give them salmon occasionaly (as long as it is wild cought), but is better to give them smaller fishes (same goes for us, humans), since they have much smaller load of heavy metals and other toxins then bigger fishes who are predators. They accumulate it from the water + from smaller fishes they eat. Sardines or picarels (?) the really small fishes wich you can eat whole are great. + they can only be wild cought. Farmed fish does not really have the benefits of fish (omega 3), since they don't eat alge, plancton, or shrimps, they are fed with comercial food, with is pretty much same as chicken comercial feed ... Great! We wil first try with slightly smaller and softer bones like chicken, quail or rabbit ribs and chicken and quail wings. Necks are great, but atm a bit to hard for them to handle. Chicken feet are great, especialy as a treat or to add to the diet when is a bit bone light. They are quite bone heavy to be used as a bone in meat. This is superb! Feeding them home raised food is the best. First you know that the meat os hormones and additives free, second you know that those animals were fed good food and third you know that they had lived a good life. It is great that you have option to get a variety in sizes/ages of those prey animals too! I'd like to work on leash training and tricks like standing up, paw/shake, and roll over. I've already trained them to come when I call (about 80% effective), to use the potty before they can come out of their cage, and to grab my hand a certain way when they want out to play. I am not really expert on teaching my ferrets tricks, but I learned them (well, not all of them) some basic tricks like standing up, roll over or to spin. Like with anything else you do with ferrets, the positive reinforcement is a key. I take a treat and show them with a hand gesture what I want. Standing up is the simplest - you just lift a trick in fromt of their nose and they will automaticly go on their hind feet. You than start using "the comand" and of course, always praise them and give them that treat when they do the trick. You can also use clicker method - it works great with ferrets also, but I am not exactly an expert. There are quite a lot of videos on youtube on that. ok ... there is one more thing I would like you to do - can you please write me how does your weekly menue looks now, so we can start going toward our goal and balancing it
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2016 21:44:52 GMT -5
I will get better pics soon Aris Aris & Arya (Aris' fur is wet here) Arya
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2016 22:11:12 GMT -5
Awws, I read your guys' profiles and about your ferrets. So cute <3 Our ferrets really are one big business so I was really excited to know that you wont mind questions about them. I have used extra virgin olive oil and egg to bribe. The problem is neither of the scales are big enough. Ill get a different type of scale when I can afford it (and salmon oil) and Ill measure in the other unit. What are average weights and eating amounts for spring ferrets? Despite the current wonky weather it would seem they are more reliable than the ol groundhog! I have been paying close attention to who is eating what, I sit next to them most of the time while they are eating but the in equal amounts concern is why I want to hurry and switch them to frankenprey; they seem done with the soupies stage. Maja, a weekly menu for my lil dudes is the basic soup recipe, just in slivers and chunks. 1tsp bone meal, 1oz heart, 1oz liver, 8oz muscle. They get an almost even rotation of chicken, beef, and pork heart; chicken, cow & calf liver; chicken, turkey, beef, pork muscle. Chicken or quail egg once a week. Occasionally salmon and now trout. They prefer to eat their liver as jerky and if the heart is blended in they wont touch it though they will eat heart by itself. These guys... Ponce, Im glad you mentioned about the nutritional differences of farm raised fish. I thought I did so god today catching that trout on sale hahaha I will look for little fish. I cut slivers of the scales as well and they both ate that so small, whole fish may be my ticket to getting them to eat bones. They can have fish bones, right? Asian markets are where Ive been finding the hearts I got so far. I am a Google pro Im hoping to score some goat meat and possibly heart soon. Ive made it a priority to order in some "other" organs from hare today to tide me over until I can find a local source of lung, spleen, kidney, etc. That said, how would the whole prey grinds fit into a frankenprey menu? I recall a frankenprey thread that has a substitution chart. Oh, random but these gizzards have yellow slime on them, is that normal?? I have given crushed quail wing whole and crushed quail wing cut up in small chunks and they snubbed their noses. Im thinking they will dig whole chicks though. Im used to feeding live prey to snakes, would it be wrong to feed live prey to the ferrets (only chicks and maybe small mice and insects)?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2016 9:51:35 GMT -5
Good Morning! Aris and Arya are just so beautiful. Aris is an unusual color and looks like a cinnamon in the picture. That's a bit of a rare color. Arya has a lovely sweet face and looks like a champagne with some other colors thrown in. My Wynstan and Mika look alot like Arya. What are average weights and eating amounts for spring ferrets? Despite the current wonky weather it would seem they are more reliable than the ol groundhog!
There really aren't average weights for Ferrets. It depends on their body types. Some are Whippet body types and long and lean. The Bulldog body type is stocky and more muscular. Neither of yours look like Whippets from the pictures. The Ferrets from other places than the States seem to weigh more and be bigger in alot of cases. Male Ferrets may lose alot of weight in the Springtime. I've read up to 30 percent of their body types. Mine lose somewhere around 6 -8 ounces. The girls lose less. They will eat alot less in the Spring but since you are in the middle of switching then it makes it harder to tell. Yours have been on raw for awhile now so you aren't going to see the kibble fat disappear but you will notice they may prefer to eat one large meal and sometimes not a second meal or sometimes a much smaller second meal. I leave food out at all times and I'm noticing that they are eating a big dinner and a very light breakfast. Maja, a weekly menu for my lil dudes is the basic soup recipe, just in slivers and chunks. 1tsp bone meal, 1oz heart, 1oz liver, 8oz muscle. They get an almost even rotation of chicken, beef, and pork heart; chicken, cow & calf liver; chicken, turkey, beef, pork muscle. Chicken or quail egg once a week. Occasionally salmon and now trout. They prefer to eat their liver as jerky and if the heart is blended in they wont touch it though they will eat heart by itself. These guys...
Funny little things. They all have their preferences in how they like to eat their meals which is just like us. Jerkified food is such a delicacy. Not so much for us when we find it in a pair of shoes or under a bed, lol. You are basically through the soupie stage but it's a good idea to offer soupie once or twice a month. That keeps them familiar with it and it's great nourishment if someone gets sick. Now we want to work on the sizes of chunks and slivers for them. What we want to do now is get your menu plan written out in the following format. Once your final menu is forwarded to Heather for approval then she will want to see it in this format: Just an example and you will decide what meal (muscle meat, bone in and organ meals). Monday am Bone In (what protein will go next to the category of meal for all of the below) pm Bone In Tuesday am Muscle meat pm Bone In Wednesday am Muscle meat pm Organ meal Thursday am Bone In pm Bone In Friday am Muscle meat pm Organ meal plus Heart Saturday am Muscle meat pm Bone In Sunday am Bone In pm Bone In or Muscle meat. This meal will depend on whether you would like them to have a muscle meat meal or a Bone In . 7-9 meals should be Bone In. Younger ones should go a bit heavier on Bone In since they are growing and need calcium. 3-4 meals including the Heart meal will also be your decision. Some Ferrets do better with more Bone In to keep their poops nice and firm while some are better off with less Bone and more muscle meats. We can talk about that as we go along. Maja offered the fish advice and she is correct. Wild fish is better than farm raised fish and they can eat bones. Mine love cod and Roamy adores shrimp but I pull off the shell for him. Ive made it a priority to order in some "other" organs from hare today to tide me over until I can find a local source of lung, spleen, kidney, etc. That said, how would the whole prey grinds fit into a frankenprey menu? I recall a frankenprey thread that has a substitution chart.
I'm glad you have a good source of Hearts. They're often hard to find. You can use Commercial grinds with Frankenprey meals. Here is a chart to help you with that and we'll answer questions once you find a good commercial grind: docs.google.com/document/d/1PE7zTHkmZGV9_T9ChjbsHVLgWd7U9Vip_zQN-qm85gs/editOh, random but these gizzards have yellow slime on them, is that normal??
The connective tissues sometimes have a yellowish or greenish cast to them and I've read that is from the grass they pick up while eating. I tend to cut it away since it looks yucky. Always trust your nose though and if they smell funny or off then toss them. The yellowish slime should not smell bad on a good gizzard. I have given crushed quail wing whole and crushed quail wing cut up in small chunks and they snubbed their noses. Im thinking they will dig whole chicks though. Im used to feeding live prey to snakes, would it be wrong to feed live prey to the ferrets (only chicks and maybe small mice and insects)?
It might take them awhile to get use to quail so keep trying. It's a good protein and a good Bone In meat so we want a variety of Bone In meats on their menu. They just need some time to get use to it like any new protein. One trick is to offer a new protein for two or three days in a row. Imbalances take months to occur so it doesn't hurt to let them have a new protein for a few days until they are comfortable with it. Any baby animal will be a treat so if you are feeding chicks or small baby mice then consider that a snack not a meal. You can feed live small prey but never ever a live rat to a Ferret. Watch carefully and make sure they dispatch it quickly and not play with it. We don't want any animal to endure suffering. Part of feeding live prey will be understanding that you might have to dispatch the animal if the Ferret is not able or taking too long because they are playing with it. I have not fed insects to mine on purpose but mine are lovely about catching crickets and when we lived in Florida then Ponce would catch a Palmetto bug and eat that. Then I'd pick him up and he would spit out those nasty legs. No kisses for him but alot of praise. Worms are an option but not those dangerous worms which bite. I need to look up the names of those for you. Mealworms can be a treat those and so can earthworms but let me look more into that or see if maja01 knows more. You're really doing fantastic and so are Aris and Arya. It's a pleasure working with someone who is so excited about learning. :wave3: Personally if I were to feed insects then I would want them to come from a petstore and not the outside since we don't know if the insects have gotten into any pest poison or acquired some nasty parasites. Maja will be going out of town this weekend but I'll be here. I checked on times so I'd know where we are all at and you are one hour later than I am and Maja is approximately seven hours later than me which makes her six hours later than you.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2016 13:21:21 GMT -5
It's funny you say that about Aris. When my sister and I got Aris & Chaos (litter mates) we had a hard time telling them apart. Chaos is pure white with red eyes, Aris had been white with dark eyes and a very small sandy patch on his back wainning him the nickname "sandy butt". Since winter he's gone all cinnamon. Arya darkened. I like the coat changes, I've seen a lot on the HF Facebook page.
I just made up 9 batches of chunkies. The bag I pulled out yesterday is beef heart, calf liver, and pork. Apparently they don't dig pork much; Arya has been eating more of it than Aris. Since I noticed Aris wasn't eating it yesterday I scooped out the heart n liver for their PM meal which they both ate and stashed. I'm hoping Aris changes his mind and eats more today but he's currently lazing about pouting.
The thing I need to work on now is getting them to start eating bones. I'll make the frankenprey menu when they will actually eat it. Like I said, I've tried crushed quail and chicken wings and will continue to....just as soon as I get more in lol And I will look for small fish. I wanted to get skinned rabbit heads from hare today too. I heard ferrets really like brain so I thought that may entice them to try the skulls. They recently had bone marrow and went crazy over it. Any idea which cuts/bones have the most marrow?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2016 14:11:04 GMT -5
The color changes fascinate me also. I haven't chosen any for colors but now I have two Champagnes, two whites with a touch of silver and then Roamy my sable. I need one more sable for a matched set but Paul says No More Ferrets and he's firm on that one. I want a blaze though and then I'd need another blaze so my husband being the smart man he is, is very firm on no more for now. (lol, that's my "now"). They don't like pork very much. That's unusual. It's a mild flavor and they usually like it. Mine really love brains so my two organ meals tend to be pork brains and pork liver. I buy pork brains in a tub and find them in the freezer section of my local market. Ask your butcher and then we'll see if they like them. Marrow is wonderful for them but the problem lies in the fact that beef has the most marrow available and they won't be able to eat beef bones. You can still give it as a snack though. Look for beef bones and dig the marrow out. If you buy some with meat on them then they can chew on that and work on getting the marrow out and you'll have a muscle meat meal. Lamb should be going on sale soon so look for some lamb bones also. Oxtail is really a cow's tail but has nice fatty marrow in it. I've found the cheapest way to buy marrow is at the Asian market and it's about two inch thick cuts with the marrow easily scooped out. It takes awhile for them to build up jaw strength and get use to the idea of eating bones. Try to work gizzards in as a muscle meat meal and as I mentioned before that will help them build up their jaw strength and clean their teeth also. I started out smashing mine up very fine and then moved up into smaller chunks of bone. Celene built a good thread on this: holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/18359/smashing-bone-beginner-ferretsWhat I would also suggest is to put some chicken wing tips in with them every night and let them get use to this. They'll get hungry and work on the wing tips. Smash the wingtip section once lengthwise and twice width wise without going all the way through. Some Ferrents like to quarter or half a quail or cornish game hen and using a round shower ring attach it to the cage. This will interest them and in trying to pull it off then they will gnaw on it and get the idea to chew on the bones. It will take a bit to get them eating bones comfortably and until then you can use bonemeal powder to supplement. Mix it in with the chunks and add a bit of soup for a light gravy. You might find they prefer duck wingtips or turkey wingtips and you could try those but they are tougher than quail, chicken or cornish game hen. We'll want them to eat those eventually for other proteins but we need to start out with smaller more fragile bones first. It's just a matter of continuing to try and continuing to offer bones until they get the hang of it. They will. :wave3:
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Post by maja01 on Feb 25, 2016 16:39:04 GMT -5
Hey guys, sorry for late replies! It is the time difference + I have been in a lab for half a day, we finally started to work on the lab part of my study research on canine distemper in ferrets. No live viruses of course, we are developing a testing method (ELISA) to detect antibodies after vaccination. So we can see what is really going on after vaccination (here in EU we mostly use puppy vaccines with anecdotal dose 1/2 vaccine/per ferret) and what happens if a ferret is on immunosupressive therapy like corticosteroids for insulinoma and so on ... I am really glad that we have finally started doing this part, since I have collected more than 100 blood samples until now Well let's go back to theme Nice little weasels you have there! Really interesting this part how Aris changed his colour! Darkening like Arya did is more usual, but from going almost white to such a nice reddish colour - I have never seen it, it is usually the way around. There is no one unike rule ... they really differ a lot in size and in structure. So it pretty much depends on every ferret - this is the reason we want to keep records on their weights and have a log of pics to compare them. I weight my ferrets at least once a month to keep track. And with pics ... they are really great for comparsion, since you can't notice much difference if you are looking at something (in this case someone every day Of my current crew I can't allready say how much their weight fluctuates, since Chili and Iorek pretty much keeps their weight the same (in older ferrets the weight fluctuations are not that apparent and Iorek ... well, he is just weird ), the other three are all new to me. For Guzstav and Drdra is their first spring (G has for now dropped from 2,1 kg=4,6 lb to 1,91kg=4,2lb, and Drdra from 860g=1,8 lb to 730g=1,6lb) and Vega is here only for three months and was not in his best shape when he came, so he acctually gained some weight. I had male ferrets whose weight fluctuated from cca 4,4 lb in winter to cca 2,8 in summer ... poncesmom has allready answerd most of those questions, I will just add there where I can add something Oh, random but these gizzards have yellow slime on them, is that normal?? Yes, it is normal. They (the butchers) don't really wash them and this are the remains of digesting juices ... sometimes you can also find some half digested parts of chicken food in it. I leave it there As poncesmom wrote allready - one method is to offer it few days in a row, so that they get used to a new smell and taste, or you can mix small amounts of chunks in chicken chunks so that it will imprint (? don't know if this would be the right word) of their smell and taste - the juices from both meats will mix. They still might need few offering of meal to acctually eat it (you can offer them same leftovers trough whole day) ... You can offer your ferrets live prey, just make sure, they will clean kill it ... Only do it when they will be fully accustomed to those animals allready dead, so there would be no prey torturing. Me personally I would not be able to do it ... But this are just my feelings. Insects can be a part of a diet - meal worms, those simillar but bigger ones (but both are more like treat or snack, since they are pretty fatty), grasshoppers, crickets, ... they are great for more variety. Mine occasionaly snack on moths (night butterflies) - especialy if cats cats catches them and they don't eat them by themselves. The bones, scarry bones (just kidding) - you can either smash them to really small pieces with cleaver (they will not eat all of those tiny peaces at once - so don't worry if you find leftovers) ot trey offering them smaller and softer bones like chicken/rabbit/quail ribbs or just the tip of the wing. Maybe staying with chicken with this would be the best for first few days, so that we will not mess them up with new protein + demand from them to gnaw on those bones. They are doing great for now and I think it is just a matter of few days to make them eat those smaller bones. Just make it bit easier for tha start with smashing them. I still have to do it for Chili here and there - he has days when he decides that he will just eat the meat off from them. Spoiled little beastiees they are ) Ok, I guess I cought up for now. Tomorrow I will still be online, during the weekend I'll be off, since we are going to a ferret show to Prague with Gusztav. It is quite a long ride - 700 km (430 miles) in one direction, so we will be going on friday night, spent the wole day there and oversleep thereat the site of the show and than return on sunday. It is the first show for both of us and I am a bit nervous. I am not really in this show thing, I am mostly going to get a description from judges, to show him to his breeder and to see possible parents of another ferret we might be getting this year ... I am establishing my breeding "flock" and if all goes according to plans, two dark sable jills and one dark sable boy (all from clean shorthaired, sable/polecats lines) will join us this year ... This are the plans, we will see how it will end.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2016 11:31:15 GMT -5
Thanks for the detailed responses. They had finished off the pork last night so they got turkey this morning and ate like they had been starved hahaha 5oz for breakfast!
Guzstav sounds like a big ferret! Have fun at your show, Maja. It's really cool hearing about your class and both of your businesses. Hahaha It still cracks me up that a group of ferrets is called a business. Mafia, more like!
I'm going to do another picture day soon and have my friend help me get proper weights.
Maja, it's so cool you have access to ferrets with actual lineage. The only breeder near me is Marshals. I don't know if you've heard of them but their ferrets are not very healthy. I'd like to get ferrets from the UK that are healthier and would live longer but its just not affordable.
My freezer is literally too full of ferret food. I have a small fridge in a smaller (haha) apartment. That said, I'm still going on a ferret store run today. I'm betting the Vietnamese store that had pig heart may have brains. Not many people raw feed their ferrets around here. You should have seen some of the reactions we got when my sister and I drove around town collecting hearts.;p
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Post by maja01 on Feb 26, 2016 14:40:58 GMT -5
Hehe, mine do the same with some food ) After organ meals they are usualy allready jumping in front of the doors/windows when I get up in the morning. Gusztav is not exactly small ) he is quite big, well still some of that kit fat hanging on him, but is getting more and more masculine look and feel. I agree, they should be called mafia I know Marshall's here in Europe we have them too ... They are not so commno here, but here and there some pet stores caries them. In my part of the Europe in Italy (which is bordering country to Slovenia) they are most common. Few years ago we rescued one nice little silver who was Marshall's, and colegues from Croatia had few of them as rescues too. It is not much better over here, tough ... We might not have a lot of Marshall's ferrets, but even our petstores ferrets have awfull genetics. They mostly come from farms in Slovakia or Checzs rep. Same problems as in marshalls - form herath problems, to lymphoma (and everything inbetween). There are also lots of bybs as all ferrets (except those few marshalls) come un-neutered. Which is ok for ferret's own health as they still get neutered older, but too much people use them for breeding. To get a ferret from known lineage you have to do some research and be willing to travel at least a bit ... There are some good breeders in USA as well, but have no idea how close too you. Most of them are listed on AFA's web site and also here in a breeders section there are some mentioned Oh, I know those reactions when you mention it is for the ferrets ... Here in our store they have one great butcher and they carry quite a lot of "unusual" organs and meats like pig's brain, bull's testicles, Pig's stomaches and so ... I, myself don't really eat meat and once I asked the guy what people use pig's stomaches for. It looks pretty grose to me And since then he kept giving me various recipes for those organs and meat parts, until I once told him it was for the animals Imagine guys look
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2016 22:06:11 GMT -5
Hahaha! Too funny
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2016 14:04:00 GMT -5
(giggle) I get alot of "what is that" and "come see what they have for pets" when people see my ferrets. They are not common in our tiny town. There are some good breeders around the States. Pam Van Overloop is on Facebook and she boards my ferrets when we go on vacation. We drive to Ohio just for her and last summer when we picked ours up she had just come from the Buckeye Bash and had a room full of Breeders who I was able to meet. Plus I got to see all the lovely new Ferrets and learn from them. Hers are lovely and she currently has two sets of brand new kits and has her Ferret Cam up and running. Pam is in Ohio and was featured in the PBS documentary:Ferrets, the pursuit of excellence. It's a fun watch. If at some point you decide you want a breeder ferret then you could contact her and she will help you find someone close to you. The Breeder community is tight knit and she would be happy to help you. www.pvoferrets.com/It's funny maja01 but mine have recently tried bull testicles and absolutely love them. Some people here call them Rocky Mountain Oysters and consider them a delicacy. I do not plan on trying them though. :wave3:
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