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Post by Heather on Oct 10, 2015 19:39:32 GMT -5
Name: Brandy Ciudad HF Forum Username: Onyxrose Please confirm that you are 18 years of age or older: Born in 1984 (makes me 30) 1. Where did you first learn about natural diets for ferrets? Through the FB group 2. Please describe the type of diet you would like assistance in switching your ferret(s) to. Be sure to include if you are interested in feeding whole prey (live or frozen-thawed) and if you are wanting to FULLY switch to a natural diet or PARTIALLY. If you are unsure what kind of diet you want to put your ferrets on, please express that and we can help you find the best type of natural diet for your ferret. Full Raw-with the occasional pinkie for a treat. 3. Why are you interested in switching your ferrets to a natural diet? I’ve always wanted to give my pets the best of the best and until recently I thought I had been. Now that I know there is a better option for them, this is the option that they deserve. I’ve seen the before and after pictures of teeth, coats and overall health, I know this is the best choice for my boys. 4. Do you understand that switching your ferret to a natural diet can be a lengthy, arduous process? Its not an overnight switch. It requires a commitment of several months at minimum. Your HF Mentor will be more than happy to assist you in switching your ferret(s) to a natural diet, but you need to be equally as committed. The switch takes time and effort every single day. It can also be extremely frustrating at times. If you aren't willing to tough out a potentially lengthy switching process, you have major life changes approaching (baby on the way, moving, starting school, getting married/divorced, etc), or limited time due to work, then it might be a better idea to wait on switching your ferret's diet until you have more time. Are you willing and realistically able to make the necessary time commitment? Most definitely. I may not be home for the better part of the day, but that is usually only three days a week. But I get up early and I go to bed late, so feeding the boys twice a day won't be a problem. The only issue that I am facing at this moment is when to remove their kibble and how long they can realistically go without kibble before I feed them their soupie. 5. How many ferrets do you currently have? What are their names? Ages? Genders? Do they have any health problems? Are they overweight? Underweight? How long have you had each ferret for? I currently have two boys. Shinchi and Poco both about 2 years old. I don’t have exact dates but Poco is approximately two months older than Shinchi. Shinchi didn’t come with Marshall papers when I got him from the pet store but he was guessed to be at about 5 months old. They don’t have any health problems that are known to date except for a cough every now and again that can bring chills to anyone that hears it but it only lasts for around 15 seconds. They are pretty good weight, though Poco is smaller (thinner) than Shinchi but I think it’s just genetic differences. I’ve had each ferret for about 1.5 year. 6. What diet do you currently feed your ferrets? (Please include all treats, supplements, etc) Do they already eat some form of soup? My boys are currently eating Epigen90 Digestive support from Wysong. Ferretvite and ferretone for treatise because they literally won’t take anything else. The only kind of soup that they eat is when I take freeze dried foods and add water. They will drink all the flavored juice but usually leave the wet mush behind. 7. Have you ever tried to switch your ferrets to a natural diet in the past? If yes, what happened? I have not. 8. What additional information about yourself or your ferrets would you like to share? They are typically very picky, but usually when they turn their noses up at something I would just give up. It wasn’t until I found your site that I was shown how to properly do what needs to be done to get them to like things that would be good for them. 9. How often during the week do you have access to a computer? I have access to a computer most days and if not my direct laptop, I have a tablet and a smartphone so the internet is available to me 95% of the day. 10. Please post a picture of each of your ferrets (if possible). ShinchiPoco Hi and welcome to the mentoring program . In a little while your mentors ( Poncesmom ), will introduce themselves and you can get started on a new adventure in natural ferret care and diets. Please remember to post regularly (daily or as per arranged with your mentors) so that your mentors can assist you move along safely in this adventure. If you experience computer difficulties or are going to be away, please notify your mentors and most of all relax and have fun . Your mentors are here to help you on this journey. ciao
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2015 22:42:59 GMT -5
Hello and thank you!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2015 9:31:54 GMT -5
Good Morning! (dance) I'm so pleased to be working with you and Shinchi and Poco. You've done great on your unofficial thread and the boys are off kibble, so we are off to a very good start. Here is the thread for Meet you Mentor and you can check out my Bio: holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/176/meet-mentorI also will move your unofficial thread over here. It will make it easier to refer back to it and keep all our information in one place. I'm doing that now and then will come back on in the next post
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2015 9:34:45 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2015 10:05:24 GMT -5
First let's go through some of your application questions and concerns: What diet are you interested in? Full Raw-with the occasional pinkie for a treat.
Pinkies are great treats. Are you planning on including any whole prey or simply Frankenprey? Are you willing to commit to the process and how often can you post? Most definitely. I may not be home for the better part of the day, but that is usually only three days a week. But I get up early and I go to bed late
That will work out just fine. In the beginning, I would like you to post every two days but you are welcome to post as much as you like and with any concerns. I'm home more often than not and you should get quick responses from me. Your Ferrets: I currently have two boys. Shinchi and Poco both about 2 years old. I don’t have exact dates but Poco is approximately two months older than Shinchi. Shinchi didn’t come with Marshall papers when I got him from the pet store but he was guessed to be at about 5 months old. They don’t have any health problems that are known to date except for a cough every now and again that can bring chills to anyone that hears it but it only lasts for around 15 seconds. They are pretty good weight, though Poco is smaller (thinner) than Shinchi but I think it’s just genetic differences. I’ve had each ferret for about 1.5 year.
Both boys are nice and healthy and young. The cough is most likely from just a little fur caught in someone's throat. It happens when they groom themselves. You can offer an egg once a week to help and in my house if someone is coughing, I offer them some water with a little oil in it. 6. What diet do you currently feed your ferrets? (Please include all treats, supplements, etc) Do they already eat some form of soup? My boys are currently eating Epigen90 Digestive support from Wysong. Ferretvite and ferretone for treatise because they literally won’t take anything else. The only kind of soup that they eat is when I take freeze dried foods and add water. They will drink all the flavored juice but usually leave the wet mush behind.
The Wysong Epigen 90 was the only approved kibble when I joined. It's a good quality kibble but it's still kibble. They had a formula change a year or so ago and ferrents began reporting diarrhea. I don't know if that is still happening but I haven't seen any reports lately. I also fed FDR for awhile while I learned about feeding raw. You've done well and chosen good products but we can do better now with a Natural Diet. One small note; let's get rid of the Ferretone and replace it with a good fish oil. Grizzly salmon oil is wild salmon, human grade and much better for them. I buy mine off of Amazon. If you find another product, make sure it is human grade with nothing added. When you get a chance please post pictures of Shinchi and Poco dangling, and one picture of each from above them. This allows me to see their size and make sure they are not too thin or too heavy. What we look for is to be able to feel their ribs but not see them. They should not be so thin that they have a waistline. Here are the rules for the program and I ask that you please follow this: Please copy/paste this very short questionnaire into your switching thread every Sunday/Monday if you have a more convenient day, just let me know. I understand busy schedules. 1. Ferret's name: 2. Ferret's weight: 3. Ferret has eaten "X" amount on average per meal. 4. Stools on various proteins. 5. Activity levels: 6. Weekly menu: Example would be:
Vincent, 3lbs 2oz(1417g), small chicken wing chopped into 2" pieces, bone and all. Stools good colour and consistency. Played as per normal.
Willow, 1lb 4oz(567g), 2 tbsp commercial raw turkey, hand fed. Stools good colour and consistency. Very hyper when up, playing for 2-3 hours at a time.
Mr. Frodo, 4lb 4oz(1928g), 1/4c pork slivers mixed with soup. Stools slightly loose, somewhat seedy, and pale in colour. Somewhat more tired, plays for 30 minutes, then finds somewhere to sleep. Flat ferreting more often.
Weekly menu was:
Monday: chicken legs Tuesday: Commercial raw Wednesday: Soup with pork slivers
Etc. Just write what you actually fed them.
Also, to help us make sure your ferret is doing well during his switch, a picture from above showing his body shape clearly would be appreciated bi-weekly, but is not essential.
And direct from the application thread are these requirements:
You are required to post every second day during the "soup" stage of the transition.
From the "sliver" stage, through to large chunks, you will be required to post a minimum of every 3 days. Once you hit the large chunks, once a week will be acceptable.
If you wish to post into your thread more often, that will be MORE than welcome The above are simply the minimum requirements so we can help with sticky spots, and not have to "catch up" to where you are presently at.
Failure to post as required will result in your switch coming to a standstill and will result in two warnings before being dropped from the mentoring program. If something comes up, and you need to be away, please contact your mentor letting her know how long you will be absent.
If you should stop posting, you will receive two warnings and I will PM you. If we don't hear back, then your thread will be moved to the vault. You may reapply later but will move back onto the waiting list.
As far as your concerns about hand feeding, don't overworry about that. We do find that hand feeding helps and makes a big difference. We also don't want them to only depend on you for their meals. If you should have an emergency and someone is babysitting them or if they are at the vet's overnight, we want them to eat and eat on their own. Consider it a compromise. Hand feed them during the day and leave them to learn to eat on their own at night. They're healthy and will eat. If they hold out for Mommy, well they will be just a little hungrier for breakfast. Get into the habit of starting them off by holding them on your lap and then once they begin eating, lower the spoon onto the plate and let them eat off of that. Then leave the spoon on the plate and continue sitting there with them. In a few days, do this and then try standing up and staying close by and watching but not sitting with them. When we move into new proteins, they will need your reassurance and may want a little coaxing and hand feeding for a new meat/protein. I'm posting this and then I'm going back to reread your unofficial thread. I'll be back in a few minutes with our first lesson and answers to any questions. (dance)
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2015 10:48:12 GMT -5
So from your unofficial thread, here is what I learned:
On september 8th, the boys weighed:
2-Poco weighs 2 pounds and 3.2 ounces (0.998kg) 3-Shinchi weighs 2 pounds and 0.9 ounces (0.934 kg)
Those are nice healthy weights and normal for summertime. You are on my side of the world, correct? Winter is coming and they will begin to put on their winter coats. You may see color and pattern changes as their undercoat gets fuller and their guard hairs are less visible because of the extra undercoat. Undercoats are primarily white or cream. My Roamy for example has a mask and it drops to a V shape in the winte
4- I have everything I need to get started: Scale/bowl set just for the bubbies; food processor
Very good. A scale is important. Consider keeping a journal and weighing them regularly. Sudden weight changes can alert you to possible health problems. You'll also get use to their weights in the winter and then the change in weight that comes in the summer. A male ferret can drop up to 30% of their body weight in the summer.
DAY One: It took all of 20 minutes to start from finger to gum to plate! I love these boys. Even took out all kibble for the night and left them with nothing but the soupie. It's about 1/3 of the way down. Will check on it in the morning and update with where it is.
Excellent start. They obviously love and trust you and you all did great on your first day.
DAY TWO and DAY THREE I do not think I will be putting any food, soup or kibble, in the cage again tonight. I feel that sufficiently they both ate enough to carry them on until morning. I mean, they both literally ate about 1/4 of a cup each. I'm hoping that by doing this, they will be hungry enough in the morning to not have to struggle with feeding them as thursday's are my very early mornings and I have to get up and out the door with very little time to stop and feed.
You're a natural at this! The boys are both ready to eat healthy and give them a hug for being such good boys. Both days went so well.
Day4 AM they didn't do very well Their poops are uniform. Small, watery and the same color. Like a greenish brown. I've learned my lesson though-no free roam during transition.. they don't want to use any of the litter boxes we have around and waiting for the runny poops to dry seem to be a dream not coming true..I have little black soft spots along my walls.
Just like us they have days where they just aren't that hungry.
Poop patrol will be important. That will be our first lesson for today and I'll end this post with it. Have you ever tried any puppy pads. You could place one under the litter box and tape the edges up to the wall. I don't use litter in my free roam house. I tried it and it just became a dig box and they pooped next to it.
As I was saying, you will see some funky poops during the switch. If you get concerned, up the eggshell powder to either 1/2 tsp or 3/4 of a teaspoon. Each ferret has different needs and some need more calcium for firmer poops and some need less.
Greenish poops can have several different causes. In this case, it was most likely simply their bodies processing a new food and it may have passed too quickly through their system. Organs will always make for blackish loose poops and soupie has organs in it
DAY FIVE
PM feeding didn't go as well as I expected. I took their regular soupies and added the deer meat to it. Poco (my DEW) practically devoured as much as he could. When I put him back in his cage, I did so to where he was sitting up hooman style and he did not move. His belly was so full he licked his lips and fell asleep just like that.
However, poor Shinchi didn't want any at all. Just absolutely hated it! For the first time since starting the transition I had to scruff him to make him eat. I only brought a little bit of foods with me, everything else was frozen and I had already mixed the deer meat in with the chicken soupies so he had to eat his dinner the little fuzz butt!
Poco is a little eating machine. Deer is a strong flavor and he did so well. Shinchi did eat some and he gets kudos for that. If you can avoid scruffing during the meal, please do so. Meals should be pleasant experiences and I prefer to save the scruffing for vet visits or for giving meds should they need it. One thing that works for me is to make some slivers and stand at the sink and then run them under hot water. Then offer it to Poco. The Warm water makes the meat smell enticing and you can usually convince them to at least try a piece.
One thing I am noticing is that in most cases, they finish their plate. If that is the normal, then add some more to their plate. It's better to waste a little bit until you are use to how much they eat.
Farther down, I see where you made gizzard mash. That Ninja is amazing. I love to sing the praises of gizzards. They build jaw strength and help clean teeth. I buy duck gizzards and hearts so that I can get pricey duck for less money and have another protein. Duck is nice and fatty and mine like it. Your boys should be ready for slivers of gizzards now A fun game is to put a large shallow container on the ground and add an inch of water. Drop some gizzards into it and let them go fishing.
You write very well. It's fun to read your comments and you are clear and easy to understand.
I also see that you are a Nanny. How old are the children you sit for?
What kind of litter do you use? I use pine pellet litter. For us it's the best kind, because it's cheap and fits in the budget. They've never consumed it before and I think it may have been Shinchi because I don't see Poco trying to stash in the litter pan. He tries to take it up stairs to the box.
I need to look into pine litter. Pine can be a common allergy to ferrets. It should be untreated to avoid irritating sensitive noses. I know that there are litter threads, so let me ask on the Admin boards and see what they say about pine litter.
It drives my husband insane that I spend more time worrying about them then I do about him.
Our poor husbands. I get pouts and grumpy comments when we have pizza and they are getting a nice beef dinner. Mine loves ours though and while he complains a bit, he is good with them. Of course, they are mine and all poop/feeding responsibility is all mine.
Farther on down the posts, all is going normally. Aside from the rubber band incident, everyone is doing so well. You haven't seen any signs of trouble with that, have you?
I'm going to post this and then post one small less on poops. I'm very impressed so far. You're doing remarkable well and the boys are just wonderful. :wave3:
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2015 11:13:12 GMT -5
Let's talk about the all important Poop which is going to play such a big part of your life as a ferrent: Here is our poop chart. It helps to know what different poops look like: holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/2469/poop-chartYou will see a variety of poops and colors during the transition. Do not be concerned they are eating, drinking, playing & acting normal. Poops can be whitish or look seedy if they have too much fat. Fat equals energy so you want fattier cuts for them. Poops are darker when after eating hearts or livers. There may be small pieces of undigested bones in poop. Sometimes they are green or muscousy. Mucous is the body's natural defense and a new protein can produce mucous as their body produces mucous in response to this new food. Eggs produce eggy yellow poops. Loose poops will need a little more calcium or further down the road an extra meal of bone will help. Poops that are white and chalky and very very firm mean too much bone. In that case, we will substitute a Bone In meal for a muscle meat meal. As I mentioned, each ferret has different needs to get proper poops. Poops to be concerned about are red "frank" blood in the poop; hearing whimpering while a ferret is pooping, seeing very runny or watery diarrhea for more than 3 consecutive bowel movements; Chicken can be a common allergy/intolerance. That is one reason we don't want a chicken heavy menu. An intolerance can lead to IBD and that's not fun for the ferret or you. If you see more than 3 bright green poops in a row; or if you see consistent black globs, strings or "coffee grounds" in the poop + teeth grinding & lethargy or decreased appetite. If you ever have any concerns, simply post a picture of the poop and we will discuss it. Poop pictures are common here so don't feel funny about showing poop pictures. So, any questions about Poops? I swear, I didn't know this much about my own skin children's poops. :wave3:
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2015 13:58:11 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2015 14:34:57 GMT -5
Thank you so much for all of the wonderful information. I've read everything and will be responding to it later. I will get you the updated pictures today. They boys ate pretty late last night, got their bellies really full and then I made sure to put extra in their cage just in case and they ate almost all of it. Last night's dinner was approximately 6 oz's of food total with about 1 oz left. I don't know exactly what the weight was because until last night I didn't have an official way to store their food in the freezer in more than some plastic wrap. Now I do. 8oz containers. 2oz per ferret per meal so I only have to bring one out for the next day. Starting today I am going to measure how much they eat. Give me a few minutes to get them weighed out and pictures taken that you are requesting.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2015 14:48:32 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2015 16:00:38 GMT -5
I'll ask about that one specifically. They ate well last night. Hooray! If you need any help loading pictures, just ask. I use photobucket (it's free) and easy to use. If you're using something else, I can find someone to help but most of us use a photo sharing site like photobucket.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2015 16:29:04 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2015 16:31:46 GMT -5
In the last picture you can tell that there are 2 fresh poops. One in the very corner that is a lightish color and one that is in the bottom left. Their poops are getting more solid as Poco last night had a really good poop in the bathroom. It wasn't firm or anything but it was soft and coiled like soft served ice cream.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2015 9:21:37 GMT -5
Shinchi and Poco are both lovely and healthy looking. Shinchi is a handsome sable and has the bulldog body type. Poco is beautiful and looks more like a whippet body type. The poops look good and normal for a switch. If you get a chance, change out all the litter and that will help us with observing new poops. Let's talk about the Frankenprey diet. I'd like you to become familiar with what we are working towards. Basic Frankenprey Menu
This is what a weekly menu will look like. Try to get use to referring to meals as either Bone In, Muscle Meat or Organ meals. This confused me early on, so I built a chart and referred to it. I'm a visual learner and it's easier for me to see what I'm doing. This was my first Chart and I've since tweaked the protein sources but it gives you an idea of what a weekly menu looks like:
Monday am: edible bone in meat Monday pm: edible bone in meat (or muscle)* Tuesday am: edible bone in meat Tuesday pm: muscle meat Wednesday am: edible bone in meat Wednesday pm: heart Thursday am: edible bone in meat Thursday pm: edible bone in meat (or muscle)* Friday am: edible bone in meat Friday pm: ½ heart + ¼ liver + ¼ other organ Saturday am: edible bone in meat Saturday pm: muscle meat Sunday am: edible bone in meat Sunday pm: ½ liver + ½ other organ Edible bone in meat: is just that, meat with bone included. It is NOT bones with just a bit of meat on them (ie: most of the meat removed). If you fed bones like this you will throw the balance of the menu off. See below for acceptable bone in meats
Bone In meats will come from smaller animals. We don't expect a small ferret to eat a cow's leg for example. Some good bone in sources are: chicken: any / all, quail: any / all, rabbit: any / all, turkey: necks, ribs, and wing tips, duck: neck, ribs, and wing tips. pork: button bones, rib ends, cornish game hen: any / all.
7-9 meals a week will be Bone In meals. We say 7-9 meals because each ferret has different bone needs. For example, a baby will need 9 Bone in meals. He's growing and needs the calcium.
*These two meals can be either bone-in or muscle meat depending on the consistency of your ferret’s poop. Dry, chalky and firm you should reduce the bone-in meals and feed muscle meat instead. Loose, unformed and overly liquid, increase the bone-in meals. Do not change the menu beyond these two optional meals or you could affect the nutritional balance of the diet. Muscle meat: any heart meat. Chicken (including gizzard), turkey, duck, lamb, goat, beef, Cornish Game Hen (counts as chicken), venison, elk, basically any meat (unaltered such as smoked, pickled or injected with salt) without bone.
*heart is considered a muscle meat but is ABSOLUTELY necessary as it is their primary source of taurine. Lack of taurine in their diet can lead to eyesight problems and other issues. Tongue has large amounts of Taurine in it. A ruminant or cow tongue will actually have more Taurine. Taurine is found in the tissues of muscles. The more a muscle is worked then the more Taurine is found in it. That is why we use hearts or tongues as a primary source. Taurine is Water Soluable and must be replenished. If you supplement, 500 mg per day per ferret would be the recommended amount.
Good muscle meats choices will be gizzards, pork, turkey, and any red meat like beef. Beef is high in Vitamin B and Iron and it should be one meal a week in their menu. Gizzards will make a second good muscle meat meal. They build jaw strength and help clean teeth. Heart is a muscle meat and must be one meal and then a half meal a week. Heart makes up ten percent of what they will eat in one week.
3-4 meals a week will be muscle meats.
Organ meat: Liver, kidney, thymus, pancreas, reproductive organs, lung, brain, basically any part of the body that secretes hormones.
Organ meals are important. I prefer to do one organ meal a week as a soup. This keeps them use to soup and is a great way to nourish a sick ferret.
They will get two Organ meals in one week. Liver plus another Organ 1/4 portion of Liver and 1/4 portion of the other organ plus a half meal of Heart. This day usually finds them wanting a snack.
I may be repeating information but I want to keep reinforcing some info for awhile. Liver is five percent of what each one eats in one week. The Other Organ is five percent of what each one eats in one week.
In the wild a ferret would be eating an animal and would not suddenly stop and say "hey wait, I've already had my five percent of liver". We're not in the wild though and to make sure that the ferrent understands how important it is to keep liver levels down, it's important to stress this. The Frankenprey diet is based to mimic eating Whole Prey. The numbers have been crunched and everything is carefully balanced. Fat is an important part of a carnivore's diet as this is where they get their energy. It works for them in the same way carbs do for humans. Make sure to pick fattier cuts over leaner cuts when buying your meat (thigh vs. breast, shoulder vs. tenderloin, etc) Happily fattier cuts are less expensive. Too much fat will make for seedy looking poops.
Variety For optimal health a minimum (more is preferable) of 3 different proteins need to be in the diet. At least one of the minimum 3 proteins needs to be something other than: chicken, rabbit, cornish game hen or fish. This is to ensure enough Vitamin B, iron and a good base of Taurine in the diet (most taurine comes from the heart in the diet however). Different animals provide different nutrients, so work towards variety. I like to stick to a basic menu that provides familiarity and then add in something new or exotic when I find it or it goes on sale. Turkey for example will go on sale during the holidays. Time to stock up.
Any questions so far? How did the boys do last night?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2015 22:12:25 GMT -5
No questions so far. The boys didn't do very well last night at all. Shinchi barely ate any of this beef, but he at least was able to keep it up. We had an incident with Poco as he ate a lot of the beef. It was like he couldn't get enough of it.. well, let me copy and paste from the facebook post so that you are up to date here..
HELP! Poop pics and vomiting after feeding.. frown emoticon Fed beef for the first time tonight. While Poco really enjoyed it and ate everything I gave him, almost immediately he started vomiting and everything came up. Not easily either. Then almost immediately after he stopped vomiting, this happened. Now, I know the two could be related but may not be related. However, it does alarm me. Last night he was acting pretty weird in the bathtub as well. I just put some hot water and some toys and normally he is trying to jump and attack me to get out. He did not. He just laid there with his eyes half closed and his head down. Tonight, he has decided to hide every chance he's gotten. I'm so worried. **Insert poop pic**
It was light pink. same color as it went in but smooth, not chunky.
I don't think it's a blockage because he has been having decent poops lately. We did have a blockage scare about a week ago but he's been fine lately. He even had a really nice poop the other night after he got out of the bathtub. It was like soft served and curled up and not stiff or anything, it was obviously still soft, but was definitely not what you see in the picture. This happened so suddenly and he even pooped before I started feeding him because I was trying to get him to eat it in his cage instead of in my lap.
And it smelled so horrible!
It looks like I'm not taking him to the vet tonight. I called them and they were saying it was going to be $94 just to see him. Not including anything else and they don't even specialize in ferrets so they should only stabilize him. My vet opens at 7:30 tomorrow morning. I'm going to be waiting at their door.
He keeps refusing to eat. His stools looked fine previous to this though. I'm about to go and see if I can get him to eat some chicken again. I'm hoping it was just the beef.
And It needs to be said that he didn't really eat much for breakfast either, so I don't know how he even had that much poop in side of him.
I don't have any baby food on hand but I can make the soupie extra soupie if I have to. Will that do? If I feed him won't it just keep building up?
I don't have any pumpkin puree on hand right now, the pumpkin I had to make the stuff went bad prematurely. I've been giving him vaseline (yes, pure) but just letting him lick small amounts.
I took his soupie and added a lot of water to it and he is drinking/eating it right now. I started with a syringe just incase, but he seems ravenous, so I just left the bowl in there. I'm not going to let him eat too much of it as I dont want him to get sick again but he seems really really hungry.
I just gave him some more vaseline. He seems to be keeping the chicken down just fine. Yes, it's the first time he's ever had beef, however he has had Deer meat before and he's done just fine with that. Poor boy, if he is allergic to it, it will be a shame. He really did enjoy eating it.
Yeah, this is only the second bit I've given him and only about 30 or so minutes since giving him the chicken so that he could absorb at least a bit of that before sending something else down his belly. The vomiting, I'm believe he may have over eaten. What worries me is the poops in the picture above. I looked on the poop-chart on the site and there wasn't really a picture that looks like it, except the ECE and that really scares me.
**sherry mentions it might be an allergy here**
I hand fed him. He devoured it Projectile vomiting and then the green poops directly after.
All of this happened within a 10 minute window of him eating the beef.
**next morning**
We are at the vet now. I was waiting at the door. They had to unlock it for me. Poco still doesn't feel good, he is all cuddled up in my sweater. There are other dogs here and he is only slightly curious. frown emoticon we will be the first to be seen. The vet doesn't get here until 8.
We are in the room now. Vet will be here soon.
She is going to give him an antibiotic that soothes the gi tract. Suggests not feeding either boys the beef because it sounds like an allergic reaction. After his exam he is Interested and moving around and trying to steal my phone. Now I need to ask her what the chances he is allergic to anything else will be
The verdict is in. He's most likely very allergic to beef. She doesn't see signs of adrenal and isn't worried about insulinoma. Says his teeth and gums are good too. Gave me antibiotic called: metronidazole. Said if he experiences vomiting like that again to bring him back for the Ferret version of whatever it is that stops you from being sick. He is active and alert now. Ready for his chicken breakfast. Will be feeding him and giving him needs as soon as I get home. She herself does holistic Chinese remedies for pets and says if I ever decide to feed whole prey nice to cook then first due to coccihena (the parasite that attacks the brain). Good thing I decided the only whole prey I can stand to give them is pinkies and only as treats. She also said she is happy that I've been given such good advice about the soup on the switch. Because he is not even a little dehydrated after not eating moat of the day and then vomiting like that. So yey!!
So now you are up to date with that. As for today-I gave Poco his medicine at 10am and again at 10pm. He does NOT like it, at all. It even foams up in his mouth because he is trying to spit it out, poor guy.
Shortly after giving him his medication, I put 4-6oz of chicken soupie in the cage and set both of the boys at the plate. After arriving home from work tonight the plate is almost completely empty. I added extra water to it this time just in case Poco was being a little turd and didn't want to eat if it was too thick. I think I made the right call.
I am about to weigh the boys before I feed them so that you can have the information that you are looking for. I even have a little journal. Going to add the previous weights here.
9-08-15 Shinchi: 2lbs 0.9 oz Poco: 2lbs 3.2oz
9-12-15 Shinchi: 2lbs 1.9oz Poco: 2lbs 6.7oz
9-20-15 Shinchi: 2lbs 2.5oz Poco: 2lbs 6.1oz
9-28-15 Shinchi: 2lbs 1.3oz Poco: 2lbs 4.9oz
10-06-15 Shinchi: 2lbs 2.8oz Poco: 2lbs 6.1oz
10-12-15 Shinchi: 2lbs 1.5oz Poco: 2lbs 4.3oz
Tonights Dinner is 4.1 oznChicken Soupie Shinchi ate 1.2oz being held Poco ate 1.6oz being held
Put soupie in the cage for them to share, Shinchi went to bed and Poco is still eating.
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