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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2015 9:22:01 GMT -5
Looking through my switching thread to make sure...... I found that she only needs one other organ with her liver. On a organ day she will need 50% liver 50%kidney or whatever organ she can find. That's right. If you follow a Frankenprey menu, then you have: One meal of Liver plus another Organ One meal of Liver (1/4) plus another Organ (1/4) plus a half meal (1/2) of heart (a muscle meat) Liver should make up five percent of their weekly intake. Other organ makes up five percent of their weekly intake Heart is ten percent. I don't feed whole prey or grinds. I posted to the Mentors boards, to get some other inputs to help balance this combination of Whole prey and Grinds.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2015 9:26:32 GMT -5
I definitely wish I'd kept things more basic. Getting my four to eat just raw chicken will be tricky enough. I'm working on transitioning them to freeze dried raw at the moment - I think they're eating it when I sprinkle it as a powder on top of their regular kibble, but I put some whole pieces in their playpen food dish and I caught Penny taking them out of the bowl and putting them aside. Should I try to transition them to FDR first, or should I jump straight to feeding them fresh raw? I would like them to accept FDR (although fresh raw will be the main part of their diet.) Either way that you choose to do it, you will still have introductions to make for each new food. FDR is a great emergency food. If you are boarding them or someone is babysitting them, or even if you all are traveling, FDR can be great. Since you have a kit coming, I would work on going full raw first. Once they get use to eating new foods, it gets easier to add new items, like FDR. Do what works best for your schedule. Your kit will eat whatever you give him, so it would be nice if they all ate the same meals and much easier for you.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2015 9:28:38 GMT -5
With her 8 prey meals, I saw she needed a combo meal of 50% heart and 50% organ. So she would need 50% heart mixed with 25% liver and 25% kidney. (according to chart) I am breaking this down very detailed because this use to drive me crazy. I made correction here from other post because she is following a whole prey diet
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Post by brightstar on Jun 30, 2015 14:32:32 GMT -5
I prefer Hare Today. Animals look healthier and cleaner---as i thought i saw fleas on guinea pig from rodent pro . Although it could have been something else. some people mentioned tumors in mice from rodent pro. I would want my ferrets eating a healthy animal.I guess I am a little picky I'd rather pay extra and know the prey was healthy. If they are in poor condition, I would worry that they had been kept in poor conditions prior to being killed. I want the animals I feed my ferrets to be kept in healthy environments -for their own welfare, and my ferrets'. I've started with FDR, but so far my four are all being really difficult about making the transition. I've got them eating powdered FDR, but that's as far as I can get! Is there likely to be a difference for how long it takes to transition to FDR vs how long it takes to transition to raw?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2015 14:59:34 GMT -5
What I noticed with going from FDR to Raw, was it depended on the ferret.
Mine easily went to soup, pretty much the first try. They loved the muscle meats. I quickly learned that Wynstan liked his wet. Roamy would just sit at the plate and eat. Mika was fine and so was Juliet.
Everyone was fine with organs and organ pieces, as long as the organ is not a beef organ.
Then came Bone In meals. Mika is a lazy bone eater. The others were not. Last but by no means least, came Keller. She was a year old and kibble fed. She simply ate everything I gave her, from FDR to Muscle meats to Bone In.
Wynstan doesn't really like organ soup, but with coaxing will eat it. Mika is still a lazy bone eater.
If you are working with FDR, try making it a foraging game. Set up some boxes or plastic bins, put out a paper bag, (create an obstacle course). Then wet some nuggets of FDR and place them in the boxes and bins and bags. Let them go foraging, and I think you will find they will eat them. It's rather like an Easter Egg hunt for children.
You can also put out a large shallow bin that is filled with a few inches of water. Drop the nuggets in and let them go fishing. Sit with them and if someone is having trouble grabbing a piece, hand it to them. Have a towel next to it, they like to wipe their face. You can't let those nuggets sit in the water too long, they get soft and drop to the bottom.
That worked quite well for me and is alot of fun.
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Post by brightstar on Jun 30, 2015 15:45:49 GMT -5
@poncesmom : Thanks for the great idea about the foraging game! I've tried filling a dig box with other treats, and all but Bianca (she's lazy) do like to dig them out. I'll definitely try that with the FDR. I think I'll make up a soupie recipe this weekend and see what they think to it.
Do ferrets learn from each other? If I get one eating FDR or raw, will the others follow by example?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2015 16:08:23 GMT -5
Poncesmom, glad u did that because i assumed that if the whole animal---- fur, organs, and bones ground together would be considered whole prey------ I may need to back up there-----do let us know if you hear something.
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Post by FireAngel on Jul 1, 2015 20:41:12 GMT -5
Sorry I have been busy with work and my mom and didn't have the time to check in here yesterday. Grinds that contain bones and organs are considered equal to whole prey, at least that is what the chart says, so the last menu was a good one. Yes you only need one other organ besides liver, but I like 2 others, it's the variety thing and the fact that each organ will provide a different nutrient and benefit, that's where I got the 2 from and I believe in my switch that is what was recommended to me for those reasons, but yes only one other is required. Have you tried to make a soup out of the FDR?
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Post by brightstar on Jul 2, 2015 4:09:01 GMT -5
I hadn't thought of doing that, but it's a good idea.
I haven't had much luck mixing new FDR with old kibble. They keep picking out the pieces once they get bigger than crumb sized. I'm trying a new approach now - thought I'd try mixing the old kibble with water. Today, I fed them just the kibble(but wet) - if they eat that, I'll start by adding a small amount of wet FDR so I can get them really well mixed together, then I'll just increase the FDR and decrease the old kibble, until they're eating 100% FDR.
I got an update from the breeder of my ferret baby - he will be coming to his new home on July 18th! That doesn't give me long to get my four onto a new diet.
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Post by FireAngel on Jul 2, 2015 22:33:48 GMT -5
You could also try to make a gravy out of the FDR and top the kibble with that. If they are eating it that way then you can slowly decrease the kibble and increase the FDR and then slowly add less and less water to it or then slowly sneak in the soup recipe to the FDR soup and transition that way. 16 days so exciting! Nope that is not long to switch the other four and I would not stress too much about making it happen in that amount of time either.
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Post by brightstar on Jul 3, 2015 13:34:13 GMT -5
I am on day 3 of changing from kibble to FDR.
Day 1: 100% kibble, with water to get them used to the new consistency. Day 2: 40g kibble, 10g FDR. 1/8 cup warm water. They ate it all! Day 3: 30g kibble, 20g FDR. 1/8 cup warm water. I just fed them, so we'll see how it goes.
If this works as well as it seems to be so far, I was thinking of doing it with the soupie recipe like FireAngel suggested. Less than 2 weeks isn't long to get them onto raw, but I'm hoping to at least get them on to FDR by then.
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Post by Desiree on Jul 3, 2015 14:03:33 GMT -5
Wouldn't her 8 meals of totally ground up animals be considered perfect, a whole prey instead of organ heavy? Not saying a grind is best way to feed always because of teeth, but a good way to introduce raw. It's because she has 1.5 meals of heart and 1.5 meals of organs that is added to her whole prey meals that makes it heavy on organs. The whole prey is not calculated into the rest of the frankenprey diet when calculating how much organs is needed. Monday am: Ground Goat/Bones/Tripe/Organs Monday pm: Ground Pheasant/Bone/Organs Tuesday am: Skinned-gutted rabbit Tuesday pm: Chicken HeartWednesday am: whole quail Wednesday pm: Chicken Breast Cubes Thursday am: Ground Pheasant/Bone/Organs Thursday pm: Whole Carcass Ground Cavies Friday am: Ground Chicken/Bones/Organs Friday pm: Rabbit Organs (website says it consists of 50% liver, 25% heart and 25% kidney may also contain some lung.)
Saturday am: Goose pieces Saturday pm: Boneless Chicken Thigh Cubes Sunday am: mouse Sunday pm chicken liver, chicken heart
She only needs one meal that is 1/2 heart, 1/2 organs of which half should be liver. I hope that makes sense. ETA -Gah! Some how missed the post where you clarified that. Sorry, yes, only one meal needs to be organs and heart with 8 whole prey meals.
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Post by FireAngel on Jul 3, 2015 14:56:31 GMT -5
I am on day 3 of changing from kibble to FDR. Day 1: 100% kibble, with water to get them used to the new consistency. Day 2: 40g kibble, 10g FDR. 1/8 cup warm water. They ate it all! Day 3: 30g kibble, 20g FDR. 1/8 cup warm water. I just fed them, so we'll see how it goes. If this works as well as it seems to be so far, I was thinking of doing it with the soupie recipe like FireAngel suggested. Less than 2 weeks isn't long to get them onto raw, but I'm hoping to at least get them on to FDR by then. Crossing my fingers for you!
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Post by brightstar on Jul 3, 2015 18:04:59 GMT -5
I did update my menu from my original one:
Monday am: Ground Goat/Bones/Tripe/Organs(WP) Monday pm: Ground Goat/Bones/Tripe/Organs(WP)
Tuesday am: quail(WP) Tuesday pm: quail(WP)
Wednesday am: Skinned gutted rabbit (WP) Wednesday pm: Skinned/gutted rabbit (WP) (Once rabbit is used): Wednesday am: Whole Carcass Ground Cavies (WP) Wednesday pm: Whole Carcass Ground Cavies (WP)
Thursday am: mouse(WP) Thursday pm: mouse(WP)
Friday am: Ground Pheasant/Bone/Organs(WP) Friday pm: Ground Pheasant/Bone/Organs(WP)
Saturday am: Goose pieces(B) Saturday pm: chicken necks(B)
Sunday am: Goose pieces(B) Sunday pm: rabbit organs(O) 1/2 chicken heart(H)
Next time I order from hare-today, I'm going to buy organs separately (rather than them being combined into a single meal), then I can better control what organs they are eating and how much.
Thank you. I found Mel today hiding out behind her bed, chewing something. She never usually does this. I pulled her out, worried she'd gotten something she shouldn't. Turns out it was just a piece of FDR, but I hope her taking it from her bowl and all the way up to the next level of her cage and hiding behind her bed to eat it was a good sign - means she really liked it and didn't want to share? I hope.
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Post by FireAngel on Jul 3, 2015 19:15:52 GMT -5
Hiding when eating is a natural thing. The fact she had a whole pice means she stashed it before to safe for later so yes, I think she likes it! (dance)
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