Creating raw diet menu for ferret kit

[brightstar]

I'm going to be getting a new addition to my ferret family sometime in July(the breeder says she will know whether he is ready to go to his new home around 18th July).  He was born May 7th.

Here are some pictures of him (I haven't decided on a name yet):




Most recent picture taken.



I've been told that he eats pray and kibble, so I shouldn't have to worry about transitioning him.  I, however, am new to raw feeding.  I just brought a selection of raw and prey, but I'd like some advise about devising a good menu for him.

Here's what I have on order from hare-today:

1lb Ground Goat/Bones/Tripe/Organs
2lb Whole Chicken Feet
2lb Rabbit Organs
3lb Goose Pieces
3lb Ground Pheasant/Bone/Organs
25 of Day old Chicks
1lb Whole Carcass Ground Cavies
1lb Ground Chicken/Bones/Organs
2lb Chicken Necks
2lb Chicken Livers
2lb Boneless Chicken Breast Cubes
2lb Chicken Hearts
Skinned-gutted rabbit [cut in 1/2]
2lb Goat Bones
10 of Small Quail
25 of Pinkie Mice
100 of Adult Mice
2lb Boneless Chicken Thigh Cubes

I'm also hoping to transition my current four furkids from their kibble diet, to raw/prey/kibble.  I plan to get them started with the soupie recipe and go from there.  I'm hoping that whatever recipe I use for my new baby, I can also feed to my current four.

[Deleted]

Oh My, he is absolutely Darling. You will have so much fun with him.

We have a Mentoring program that you can sign up for. Your Mentor will walk you thru switching the older ones and your little Tummy with Teeth will be easy and eat you out of house and home. (giggle)

holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/61/sign-mentoring-program

Until you are assigned a Mentor, you can begin your own switching thread and the Mentors will pop in and guide you along.

Start off with some basic reading:
holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/17480/intro-raw-newbies-read

You have a nice variety of proteins already.
One small note about the goat bones. Bones In meals are the Non Weight bearing bones of an animal the size of a chicken or smaller.
Unless your goat bones are ground, they will be too big for an average ferret to handle.
Another Ferrent may offer those and have advice for how to handle them.

It takes some time to build up jaw strength, gizzards can help with that.

The key to success in switching the older ones will be working with them. Patience and coaxing will make all the difference. Ferrents who are unable to switch the ferrets fail because they simply put out a plate and expect ferrets to recognize new foods as food.
It's fun though, working with them and you build a lovely bond.

[Heather]

What an adorable wee mite
My guys were not able to make much of a dent on the goat bones but they can and do work at getting the meat off them. They do get some bone (tips and such). Unlike a dog they're not willing to worry a bone very often. Now the kit (little furry tummy with teeth) will be more inclined as he will be teething and boned meats are good for getting rid of those loose achy teeth. The baby will probably not use the soupy much especially if the breeder already has him on raw. They like ripping and tearing at their food.
Good luck, that's a good variety of foods to get them started on. Soupy will probably be needed to start the older ones but you'd be surprised what that kit might be able to teach them about eating whole meats
ciao

[brightstar]

Thank you for the responses, poncesmom and Heather. 

I will definitely consider a Mentor to help with the transition of my four adult furkids.

With regards to the goat bones, the website said they were small (cut into 3-4 inch pieces).  Is that still too big for my ferrets to handle?  Is it safe to give it to them (and the little one) anyways, or will too large pieces cause a possible health/blockage problem?

I've made a few experimental attempts to try my four on different foods(baby food, raw chicken breast, ground turkey.)  They wouldn't touch any of it.  Last night I tried them with an egg.  I really don't want to use the "scruff and stuff" technique, because mine all get distressed.  I've had Mel, Bear and Bianca for 3 weeks, Penny for almost 5.  I don't want to break the bond I'm forming with them.  I tried dabbing a bit of egg on their noses, and rubbing it on their lips.  Penny acted like a tried to poison her.  Bear, Mel and Bianca seemed bored with the whole thing. 

Next I tried dipping a favorite treat into the egg, but they wouldn't touch it.  Then I tried only half dipping it into the egg, and feeding them by showing them the "non eggy" side.  Penny took it, but wouldn't eat it once she realized what I was up to.  When I tried again with another treat, she refused to even come check out the treat bag - and normally she comes running!

I even tried dabbing a bit of egg on my nose.  All the furkids seem to love kissing my nose, so I thought maybe I could get them to try it that way.  But, nope.  Didn't fool a single one of them!

I assume this is a fairly normal reaction to an attempt to introduce any sort of new food? 

I'm not too worried about getting my baby to eat raw/prey.  I just want to make sure the menu I choose for him is properly balanced, so anyone that can advise how I should offer the selections of food I have will be much appreciated.

[Deleted]

Ferrets imprint on their food by about the age of six months or more. They simply don't recognize a new food as food. The fun part is that with each new protein, you start over.

The whole key is patience and persistence mixed with coaxing. I'm not a fan of scruffing, I never feel like I'm doing it right.
What works for me is to sit on the floor with them.
Put someone on your lap and have a towel and a spoon ready.
Dab some soupie on their nose, they kind of have to lick it off.
Place a hand gently under them, just to let them know you are there.
Offer some from the spoon and lightly hold them there until they lick it off the spoon.
If they get down and run away, pick them up and try again.
Once they begin eating it off of the spoon, then lower the spoon to the plate and remain with them.
Praise them and let them know that they are doing well.

Stick with the soupie at first. If you keep offering new things, each new food is not familiar and you will get frustrated. You may need to offer the soupie a few times before they accept it.
Soupie is fine left out for 6-8 hours depending on the heat.

Once you move past soupie, prepare to begin introductions of new foods again. However, they will get better as time goes on and it will get easier.
You're spending time with them, building a lovely bond and you will find they get more snuggley and give more kisses.
Plus, you will see such a change in their coats. The fur is the first to change and become silky and soft.
Once your baby arrives, smell his tail. A raw fed ferret often smells like grape koolaid and your little guy most probably will arrive with Grapetail.
I can't wait to learn his name. He is just so beautiful and there is nothing like a baby meeper.

[Deleted]

Such a pretty baby

[FireAngel]

How old are your other ferrets? The baby is adorable. Just like poncesmom and Heather said Soupie is a great starter and you have a great variety of proteins coming. Baby prey is considered a snack and not a meal but can be a good way to transition them to eating that particular thing in adult form. It takes some patience and work for older ferrets but it is worth it!

[brightstar]

How old are your other ferrets?

We were told Mel is about nine months.  She doesn't freak out as much when I introduce her to a new taste, but she doesn't seem to understand that she's supposed to eat it.  She just gives me a "Why did you do that, mom??" look, and runs off to play.

We were told that Bear, Bianca and Penny are a little over two years old.  Bianca and Bear are very friendly, but they also seem to be rather uncertain around people.  I don't know much about their history except that they were surrendered to the animal shelter because their owner had to move and the landlord didn't allow ferrets, but  I suspect that they may have been owned by a child that handled them too roughly.  I'm very cautious of doing anything that might strain their trust of me - Bianca has only just started accepting treats from my fingers.

Is it better that the food be warm rather than straight from the refrigerator? 

[raynebc]

Some ferrets prefer food to be warm or cold, but I get the impression from what I've read that cold food could upset a ferret's tummy. If the ferret has any tooth problems, cold or hot foods might be painful.  I tend to add a little warm tap water to my ferrets' meals and mix it around.  They like the meaty broth and it's extra hydration, so it's win-win for me.

[FireAngel]

The temp preference is really an individual thing, there are many that will eat it straight from the fridge and just as many that will not touch it if there is a slight chill to it at all. You will have to experiment with that one. Bear, Bianca and Penny will be a harder switch but it will provide a bonding time to have you hand feed them the soup at first.
It is possible also that they were rarely handled plus they are still getting to know you and that is why they are uncertain.

[brightstar]

 I've been working on my menu for my baby ferret. Here's what I have come up with:

Monday am: Ground Goat/Bones/Tripe/Organs
(Website says it contains 83% meat, 10% bone, 7% organ [liver,spleen, kidney] - is that okay?)
Monday pm: Chicken feet.

Tuesday am: Skinned-gutted rabbit
Tuesday pm: Chicken Heart

Wednesday am: whole quail
Wednesday pm: Day-old-chick

Thursday am: Ground Pheasant/Bone/Organs
Thursday pm: Whole Carcass Ground Cavies

Friday am: Ground Chicken/Bones/Organs
Friday pm: Rabbit Organs (website says it consists of 50% liver, 25% heart and 25% kidney may also contain some lung.)

Saturday am: Goose pieces
Saturday pm: Boneless Chicken Thigh Cubes

Sunday am: mouse
Sunday pm chicken liver, chicken heart

This is my first attempt at coming up with a menu. Is it okay? Should I make any changes?

It is possible also that they were rarely handled plus they are still getting to know you and that is why they are uncertain.

I was thinking that, but wouldn't they be biters if that was the case?  Neither of them have tried to bite aggressively. 

Bear came out of his shell a lot more during today's evening playtime. He's very cuddly and seems to spend a lot of time rolling on his back. When it comes to playtime, he usually won't play with me unless he's gotten himself really excited by playing with the others first. Today he actually initiated a game of "Catch mommy's feet!", which felt like a real breakthrough.

Bianca continues to worry me. She seems a bit of a loner. I've not managed to get her to play with me yet. She does occasionally come see what I'm doing, but she's so much more tentative than the others. If Penny or Mel wanted to see what I was up to, they'd be clambering up onto my knee and sticking their noses right into the action. Bianca prefers to stay on the floor and lean forwards for a careful sniff. Sometimes, when I pet her, she flinches(and not because I startled her - I'm careful to let her sniff and see my hand before I touch her.) She seems more nervous of my husband than she is of me.

[FireAngel]

For learning purpose sim going to count the chick as a whole prey meal but remember when all is said and done it is really just a snack for them, they need the nutrients of adult animals. So I count 7 whole meals that means you need 4 bone in meals 1 just muscle meat 1 just hearts and 1 just organs. Currently I think you are a little organ heavy. Does the skinned gutted rabbit include bones? Here is a chart to help you balance whole meals with frankenprey, Combination meals cheat chart. Also if you can get gizzards they make a great muscle meal to help build jaw strength for chewing bones. After you have time to look that over I can't wait to see an updated menu.
I think you are right they were probably handled and nip trained if they are good about that. I'm sure they are just still getting used to you land building trust. Hand feeding is a great trust builder and bonding experiance.

[brightstar]

FireAngel - thanks for taking the time to look over my menu. The link was very helpful, thank you.

I'd like to make sure I'm understanding what is classified as what.

Is this correct?

Whole prey meals:
Skinned-gutted rabbit
whole quail
mouse

Bone-in meals
Ground Goat/Bones/Tripe/Organs
Ground Pheasant/Bone/Organs
Whole Carcass Ground Cavies
Ground Chicken/Bones/Organs
chicken feet

Muscle meals
Chicken feet.
Boneless Chicken Thigh Cubes

Heart meals
Chicken Heart
(Can I count whole prey as heart meal - or should it just be entirely heart?)

Organ meals
Rabbit organs
Goose pieces
chicken liver
chicken heart

[Deleted]

Chicken feet would not be considered a muscle meal--more of a snack because it lacks meat on bone.

Any meat without the bone/ground up bone is a muscle meal(do not count organs as muscle meals) Some examples would be pork, beef, lamb, cavie, chicken, and rabbit chunks and all poultry gizzards.

Organ meals are : brains, pancreas,lungs,liver and reproductive parts of all animals(secreting parts).

My definition of whole prey is animal with heart, liver, and other organs--- if you take out intestines and skinned, i think it would still be counted as whole prey ------just my opinion. 

[Deleted]

FireAngel and abbeytheferret6 both gave you good advice.

Chicken feet should be a treat, not a meal. Those feet are tough. Mine simply stash them.

Heart is a Muscle Meat. It contains essential Taurine. Ferrets need this. Heart will be ten percent of what they eat in a weekly meal. Taurine is water soluable and does not build up in their system.
We suggest one full meal of Heart
One meal of 1/4 liver plus 1/4 other organ and a half meal of heart.

Liver builds up in their system. It is full of Vitamin A and needs to be kept to five percent of a weekly menu. The other organ is also five percent.

To avoid your menu being too heavy on chicken, there are other Bone In meals like cornish game hen, quail, rabbit and mice.

You also want a Red meat meal, like a beef meal. That can be part of the Muscle meat group.
Other good proteins for Muscle meats are turkey, pork (nice and fatty), frog legs, fish like smelt or cod, lamb and rabbit.

I would also suggest gizzards. They are great for cleaning teeth. Mine love duck gizzards. It's a great way to get expensive duck for an inexpensive price.

As for Organs, mine love pork brains, pork kidney, chicken and pork liver. They also love pork tongue (a muscle meat meal). They aren't crazy about any beef organs, so I stay away from those and use beef in my Muscle meat group.
Organs are secreting organs, liver/kidney/spleen/brains/thymus/pancreas

One note on chicken cubes: some ferrets prefer slivers, some like cubes. Ferrets tear with their front teeth and chew with their back. Mine preferred slivers in the beginning. I had a Mentee who had two who preferred cubes.
It's like being a trained chef. You simply have to know your audience. Working with your little ones will teach you how they prefer their food prepared. Some like it cold, some like it hot, some like it with water and some would prefer a drop of oil to get started. You'll figure it out as you go along and don't hesitate to keep asking questions. That's how good ferrents learn. I think you're going to be a very good ferrent.
:thumbsup: