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Post by bitbyter on Nov 22, 2014 14:01:02 GMT -5
Because vets have NO idea what they are talking about when it comes to raw diets. They AREN'T trained in it. No one has done research on this so HOW can THEY have an accurate opinion? There are commercial raw products out there that are perfectly safe. So is home made raw if done properly (which you are).
It is the official position of the American Veterinary Medical Association (AVMA) is AGAINST raw because of influence by the kibble companies. If vets openly go against the AVMA they can risk their certification (I believe).
At this point you need to let me know how you want to proceed.
Honestly, I personally think it is a chicken issue. My Wilma has Eosinophilic Enteritis and it took a long time to pin down her triggers. It also took time to develop, the inflammation and rejection of the triggers by her system built up over time. I've traced her triggers to something IN the meat, not the meat itself (she is fine on organic or antibiotic free meats).
I still think we could proceed if we switch off of chicken to something else. She hasn't lost weight as of yet so I don't think she is in any actual danger as of yet.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2014 14:10:03 GMT -5
If you can give me an alternative to chicken, I will find it and give it a go with a new supply of food. The worst than can happen is that she gets sick again which obviously, I don't want, but she could get sick from something unrelated to food too. I keep a close eye on things that change with them and am on top of it right away. I feel like we have put a lot into this so far and it just feels a little premature to give up just yet. I badly want to believe in raw. This just shook up my belief a little bit. I also feel good that Pearl has not lost any weight (she lost a bit recently but put it right back on.)
What should I use in place of chicken? If it is something I can get locally, I can get it right away. If it's something I have to order from somewhere online, obviously, that will take a little bit of time.
Let's give it a go and hope for the best. Thanks again for your patience and for sticking with me.
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Post by bitbyter on Nov 22, 2014 14:34:04 GMT -5
I'd try lamb or rabbit. Both of those are usually pretty good for those with sensitivities. Pork is also an option people have had luck with. Thank you for sticking with this as I truly do believe it is something we can work through. Also, have you had a look at the raw poop chart? Maybe that will help us understand what you are seeing since you don't have pictures?
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Post by Heather on Nov 22, 2014 14:47:19 GMT -5
Another thing to contemplate too, Jason is Pearl may also have a higher bone need as well. It's just something you may want to play with if you find the changing of the protein doesn't work. Slippery elm powder is as effective as pumpkin and something you can use for almost a month without ill effects (where as pumpkin has to be watched because of sugars). IBD is something else that can be looked at and Katt is really good for that aspect. ciao
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Post by bitbyter on Nov 22, 2014 14:51:56 GMT -5
Yeah I was just looking at the slippery elm recipe Heather. @pearlandbeasmom lets try the protein change, finish out the meds he gave you and if that doesn't work then we can look at upping the bone content in the soup as well as maybe trying slippery elm. Also, as long as she is maintaining her weight and doesn't seem to be getting any worse then we have time to see if we can find something that works for her. Also, take a look at the poop chart I linked above and see if that can help us understand what you are seeing.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2014 16:03:32 GMT -5
Ok. I'll get some rabbit. I'd rather do rabbit than lamb just because of my own personal preferences. I can't quite stomach the thought of a baby anything being killed for food.....
I do think the only place I know to get that is to order it from Hare Today though. I don't know of anywhere local I could get rabbit. So that will take a little bit of time unfortunately. In the meantime, I'll feed kibble because that's all I have. I think I will order some wysong though just to have on case since it's a better alternative than marshal kibble for these desperate times. Obviously that will take a little time to get here too though. Is that an ok plan for now?
I'll take a look at the poop chart and report back. The girls are going to come out to play in a bit while I clean their cage. I'll probably get some good poop pics then.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2014 16:05:27 GMT -5
Another thing to contemplate too, Jason is Pearl may also have a higher bone need as well. It's just something you may want to play with if you find the changing of the protein doesn't work. Slippery elm powder is as effective as pumpkin and something you can use for almost a month without ill effects (where as pumpkin has to be watched because of sugars). IBD is something else that can be looked at and Katt is really good for that aspect. ciao Heather, I thought of that too, that Pearl may need more egg shell to keep the runny poops away. But would that explain her low energy level the past 3 weeks? That's the main thing that is concerning to me because it is so unlike her and just tells me there is most definitely something wrong. How do I know if its IBD?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2014 16:10:06 GMT -5
I looked at the poop chart. None of those are spot on exactly what I'm seeing. Hopefully I can get some good pics. I can post what I see in the litter box I guess but it's not that fresh.
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Post by Heather on Nov 22, 2014 16:23:12 GMT -5
Technically, you can do a scrapping or biopsy but most times people diagnose by symptoms. Sometimes, if it's bad enough it requires an anti-inflammatory like pred but with a good diet and learning the triggers (it's not an easy route, but you're finding that out....ferrets aren't about easy....but they give you so much love). Sometimes, if it's just a sensitivity to a protein, changing it and adding either slippery elm or pumpkin (on the quick) it's all you need and then you will know. Katt has an IBD boy, Sherry had one too. I had one but it's been a long time so I can't remember all the things I used to do for him. I used slippery elm powder, I do remember that. Has Pearl's energy level got better now that you've used the panacur and put her on kibbles? ciao
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2014 16:30:36 GMT -5
today will be the true test on the energy level for Pearl. We started it Thursday night and last night they didn't get out for more than about a half hour (which had been her max before she'd put herself to bed.) it's rare that they don't get out for more than that but I was out after work and didn't get home til late. They've been peacefully resting, not cage raging, so that's good. I'm going to take them out shortly to clean their cage. I'll observe then. If she makes it an hour without putting herself to bed, I will know that things are looking up in that respect anyway. Wednesday night, she did stay up for an hour too which was the first time she'd stayed up that long in 2.5 weeks. So my fingers are crossed.
What is slippery elm?
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Post by Heather on Nov 22, 2014 16:46:37 GMT -5
"I use this herb more than any other in my practice! It provides superb relief, and has kept many patients from hospitalization. It is a soothing nutritive herb which is perfectly suited for sensitive or inflamed mucous membrane lining of the digestive system. The bark contains mucilage and tannins that act as demulcent, emollient, protectorant, and astringent. You might think of it as a soothing internal bandage coating the digestive tract for its entire length. Imagine the relief for your pet to have a jelly-like coating soothing in an eosophagus (food pipe) burned by acrid vomitus, or in an ulcerated colon. This herb makes a huge difference. It is easy to make and has a very bland taste which makes it easy to add to tasty things." quote from Holvet page. www.holvet.net/slippery_soup.htmlGo half way down the page all the information as well as a few methods to process slippery elm.....it's a vet page, so it's not out there information If you choose to read through the upper portion of the page, I don't agree with her use of rice but that's another story. ciao
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2014 16:48:31 GMT -5
We've got totally normal looking poops. The first one is Bea's, the second one is Pearl's.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2014 16:53:16 GMT -5
And this one is just to show that she is up to her normal shinanegans. I take my eyes off her for two seconds and she's scaled her cage like spiderman. Her alter ego is Naughty Nugget. That's what I call her when she's being a little stinker (which is basically always. )
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Post by Heather on Nov 22, 2014 16:59:01 GMT -5
Those are standard hard kibble stools. I'm glad that you think she's getting better
ciao
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2014 17:18:33 GMT -5
Well, I'm not so sure yet. she already tried going to bed once while she's been out (out for about a half hour) but I brought her back out and she's still out. So we will see.
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