They're losing weight...?

[Deleted]

Caillou and Juliet have both been losing weight over the past few weeks. They started eating raw August 30th of this year, and it's been 7 weeks today since they've been off kibble and on raw. They were gaining weight, but now losing. 

4 weeks ago Caillou weighed 51.0 ounces and Juliet weighed 27.0 ounces. 
Today Caillou weighs 42.0 ounces and Juliet weighs 25.3 ounces. 

I'm worried about them, I don't understand why they're losing. They've been eating a little less over time but I figured it's just them leveling out with the raw. They average about 2 oz a day, maybe 3. They're eating the soup recipe from the forum and quarter sized slivers (length wise not width wise) they get either slivers of quail, lamb, chicken thigh, gizzards, or ground turkey (3 days of ground turkey, they don't like it) but they only eat 0.2 - 0.8 oz of slivers, usually never more than that, and they only get them at night, in the morning they eat their soup. 

This morning they both ate 2 oz of soup.
They both went to the Vet on Wednesday Caillou has gingivitis, had it a few weeks ago but it came back and was worse, he got a prednisone steroid shot and 2 more weeks of ZydaClin antibiotics. He had previously been on 10 days of it then about 2 weeks later was on it for 9 days and then took 1 day break and started back, Wednesday night (Oct. 15th) And Juliet went to get her BG checked, it was 71. But we started her on .1 mg of pediapred on Wednesday night, she's been feeling a little better, but her only symptom was lethargy. Juliet has had Adrenal Disease, diagnosed in March of this year. Only treatment has been melatonin but will be getting a DES implant within the next week at least. 

Any idea as to why they're dropping weight? I'm worried about them and confused.

EDIT:
The Vet mentioned Caillou's weight loss, pretty much said he had no idea why, but that he was fat and so it wasn't a huge concern, since he was eating fine and poops were normal. My Vet doesn't know he's on raw, though, he's very against it and I'd rather not mention it if he doesn't ask.
He didn't weigh Jules though.

[msav]

I would look more at their overall physique, They will tend to change after being on raw. They will have less fat and more muscle. they will put fat in different spots along their body. As long as their spine is not showing where the ribs attach I don't think there is cause for concern. Every ferret has a different body type and I have also seen a ferret go through the different body types as they age. They also could have their seasons backwards but I think you would have noticed this last year.

[Deleted]

So its normal for their weight to go up and down? I forgot to mention their ages, based on their teeth Juliet is around 6 yrs and Caillou is around 5 yrs.

This is Caillou from above on Saturday the 18th (yesterday)



And this is Juliet as of yesterday.



I'm on my phone and don't have the before but when I get home I'll post them. They both look better. Juliet is losing muscle mass, her fur is thick but when she is wet she looks like nothing, and you can tell feeling on her she doesn't have much muscle. Was figuring it's her age and 2 cancers.

[Deleted]

I posted on a PM about this, but forgot to mention that one way to test them is to Dangle them. Gently hold Jules or Caillou and let them Dangle. They should be straight up and down, WITHOUT a waistline.
You should be able to feel their ribs, but not see them.

They both look good from those pictures. I wouldn't worry at all about 2oz for Jules, given all that she has been thru.
They do go up and down in weight. They gain weight in the Winter and lose in the Spring. That's why regular weight checks are good. They can alert you to a possible problem. 9oz for Caillou is something to watch.

Caillou has his mouth issues, but I suspect most of the weight is from the switch. He may be losing his kibble weight and gaining lean muscle.

I tagged katt and let's see what she says and whether we should be concerned about Caillou.

[Heather]

They don't appear to look bad, by the pics. See if you can get a dangle pic for sure of each of them but they're not looking bad
ciao

[Deleted]

Sorry I took some and completely forgot to post them. These are from yesterday also.

Caillou-



Juliet-

[Deleted]

Neither of them look too slim to me.
With Jules age and illness, I'd worry most about her weight and she hasn't lost enough to really worry about.

Caillou is probably a combo of his new raw diet and his mouth issues, but keep checking their weights and we'll see how it goes.

[katt]

Dangle them the other direction - picture should be of their bellies. Honestly though they both look fine to me.

[katt]

Are they on chicken soup right now?

[Deleted]

Ah okay

Caillou-



Juliet-



They eat chicken soup recipe from the forum, and get either quail, lamb, or ground turkey in slivers, right now we were doing ground turkey and trying to get them to like it.

[katt]

(giggle) Caillou at least is perfectly fine - I'd say he even has a few ounces to go! Juliet looks about perfect - her sides look very parallel. Their bodies will change with raw diet as they will first lose a lot of the kibble fat, and then put on some dense, lean muscle. If their sides are bulging, or hourglass when dangling from the front like those last pictures, then they are too fat or too thin. Another good measure is the ribs - if you can't feel them they are too fat. If you can clearly see them, and/or if there is no muscle layer on them, then they are too thin.

Okay so I'm really starting to wonder if Caillou doesn't have a chicken allergy. All of this started when you began the switch and this type of chewing goes beyond a simple craving for the loss o the crunchy kibble. I am going to suggest that you STOP feeding chicken entirely and do a protein trial. If this means that for a few weeks they are deficient in liver and heart so be it. You Definitely need to try to find another source of those things sooner rather than later though. Pork heart and liver are often available at Asian markets, same for beef. Beef tongue can stand in for heart, and you can get a taurine supplement. Liver is a bit trickier. If removing the chicken makes no change, you can add it back in - a few weeks of imbalance won't hurt them (but long term it will so I stress looking for other organ and heart sources while you start this).

I just can't help but wonder if the inflammation is from an allergy. His tummy could be mildly inflamed too and that could have contributed to his lack of appetite for a while as well as to the chewing. It could also explain why he initially improved on the antibiotics but appears to have a resistant infection.

This will set your switch back a bit, but if we do fish out (or even eliminate) a possible allergy it is well worth the delay. Stop feeding anything except for ONE protein - preferably a non-poultry protein. Lamb would be beat if you can afford to feed just lamb for a week or two but if not goat or rabbit would be my next pick and after that pork would be my next go-to. Make your soupies out of that meat and that meat only. If you can get hearts and organs in that protein, then use them. (e.g. if you find pork heart and liver, make the soup using the regular recipe but with all pork parts). If there IS an allergy, it can take a few days for it to clear his system and the inflammation to go down so you need to feed this single protein for TWO WEEKS. Absolutely NO other proteins (unless for some reason he gets worse on that protein, in which case he is likely allergic to that one). From there we will work with introducing one new protein at a time and closely monitoring his reaction. If he doesn't clear up, and no protein makes it worse, then an allergy probably isn't the issue but I am REALLY suspicious esp since food allergies are fairly common in ferrets. It's suspected that is has more to do with the antibiotics in the meat than the actual meat itself. :/

You are still waiting for a mentor right?

[Heather]

Yes, she's on the list
ciao

[katt]

Just posted in the mod board. Will you set us up please?

[Heather]

Tonight, I will set you up
ciao

[katt]

@julesalot watch the mentoring board - we will have a thread in the next few days. I want to get to the bottom of Mr. Caillou the Chew!