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Post by Heather on Nov 13, 2012 22:12:55 GMT -5
Name: Catherine HF Forum Username: molson0109
1. Where did you first learn about natural diets for ferrets? Here
2. I need to get my feeding schedule back on track and figure out the best food for my molson I dont want to feed whole prey (I've tried and he didnt like it anyway)
3. Why are you interested in switching your ferrets to a natural diet? Well he's been eating raw for the last 5 years already...
4. Do you understand that switching your ferret to a natural diet can be a lengthy, arduous process? Its not an overnight switch. It can be a commitment of several weeks or even months. Your HF Mentor will be more then happy to assist you in switchng your ferret(s) to a natural diet, but you need to be equally as commited. If you aren't willing to tough out a potentially lengthy switching process, or if you have major life changes approaching (baby on the way, moving, starting school, getting married/divorced, etc) then it might be a better idea to wait on switching your ferret's diet until you have more time. Are you willing to make the commitment? Of course! Molson is more than willing to eat any raw meat I give him, so the scruff&stuff, spooon feeding business isnt even necessary!
5. How many ferrets do you currently have? What are their names? Ages? Genders? Do they have any health problems? Are they overweight? Underweight? How long have you had each ferret for? one, Molson, male, 5 years old, no health problems that I know of.I think he has lost weight, but I have never weighed him, but I do have access to a scale at my work (a vet hospital) and I have had him for 5 years!
6. What diet do you currently feed your ferrets? (Please include all treats, supplements, etc) raw meat, chicken; bone,liver,heart&wings, beef:liver, cubes pork; liver and cubes
7. Have you ever tried to switch your ferrets to a natural diet in the past? If yes, what happened? yup! like I said I just need help getting back on track to make a perfect feeding schedule!
8. What additional information about yourself or your ferrets would you like to share? hmm apart from the fact that Molson is a perfect ferret and does nothing that ferrets are known to do, like hiding stuff and nibbling on things they shouldnt be nibbling on...he's super loving!
9. How often during the week do you have access to a computer?all the time! i wish this board had an android app so it woul dbe easier to access but I can always manage!
10. Please post a picture of each of your ferrets (if possible).
this one is like 4 years old, but it's my favorite picture!
Hi and welcome to the mentoring program. In a little while your mentor (Hurricane Katt) will introduce herself and you can get started on a new adventure in natural ferret care and diets. Please remember to post regularly (daily or as per arranged with your mentor) so that your mentor can assist you move along safely in this adventure. If you experience computer difficulties or are going to be away, please notify your mentor and most of all relax and have fun . Your mentor is here to help you on this journey. ciao
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2012 22:43:02 GMT -5
Welcome back Molson!!!! We're happy to help - and Katt is an AWESOME mentor and very experienced ferret mom!!!! -jennifer
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Post by katt on Nov 14, 2012 2:25:55 GMT -5
Hi! Welcome back! Why don't we start off with an overview of your current feeding schedule, what you feed in a week etc and we can go from there. I'm sure you're probably pretty well balanced as it is so we'll see where you are at and adjust where needed.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2012 12:29:39 GMT -5
My schedule is very vague, bone every other day (most often chicken )and the other days I vary between pork, beef and chicken hearts and cubes. Once a week he gets pork or beef liver (depending on what I can get my hands on)
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Post by katt on Nov 17, 2012 2:04:44 GMT -5
Okay so I am sure that you have heard a lot of this before, but it will be a good overview and refresher. Sorry in advance for the novel.... For balance, a raw diet for a ferret should consist of the following ratios: Muscle Meat 75-80% (approximately 10% of which should be heart, gizzards should also be included in the muscle meat) Organs: 10% (half of this should be liver, and half should consist of other organs such as kidney, spleen, brain, stomach, reproductive organs, etc. Organ meat is, in ferret diet terms, classified as any major hormone producing tissue in the body) Edible Bone: 10-15% (please note the use of the word edible. Any bones left uneaten - such as large bones - cannot be included in the % bone in the diet) For Variety: Your ferret should regularly receive a bare minimum of 3 proteins. However, the more variety you can offer the better. Even mixing in new meats on occasion is better than never, some meats are seasonal so we understand that you may nto be able to feed everything in the menu year-round. A minimum of 3 proteins should be fed year-round (for example, pork, chicken, and beef). Most meats sold as fit for human consumption are okay to feed ferrets as long as they are NOT processed, seasoned, or injected with saline (read labels carefully). Also, some meats not “fit” for human consumption can bed fed as well, these include meats such as commercial raw made just for pets, whole prey, butcher scraps etc. Ferrets should NEVER be fed processed meats, seasoned/flavored meats, meats with additives, meats injected with saline to preserve freshness. Below is a list of food suggestions: Check Asian markets, Halal meat markets (African markets), other ethnic markets, and butchers. You can always ask if anyone can save scraps or special order for you. The organs I usually find are: beef liver pork liver pork kidney chicken liver Then when I get whole ducks and rabbits from the Asian market they have the organs in them still. Look around too for a pet store that carries commercially ground raw meats. These are a GREAT way to add variety as they often have proteins that you won't find in the store, and they usually have organ, heart, and bones ground into them (but not always so be sure to check). I can get commercial ground: pheasant, rabbit, chicken (Koda can't eat this), turkey, beef (also a no-no for Koda), bison, quail, tripe. Also if you have trouble finding anything, there are other routes you can take. There are some places online where you can order commercially ground organ meat patties and such, and Worst case scenario, there are supplements that can help fill in the gaps but that is a last resort. OK for variety here are some ideas. Pretty much any meat you can get your hands on is ok for them: chicken turkey pork beef (also veal) bison (buffalo) rabbit duck pheasant quail venison and game meats rodent cornish game hen moose goose lamb goat fish (mackerel, salmon, halibut, goldfish, etc also, fish oil is very good for them) Start trying to add in as many new meats as you can find. The more variety the better! Also, seeing as how it is unrealistic to keep an entire farm in your freezer start just trying to locate new meats so that you have an idea of what you have access to, and where you can find what. When you find them feel free to try them out! Some parts that are good to have of all of the above animals: heart (is a muscle meat but vital for the taurine) liver kidney spleen tongue (is a muscle meat) brain (VERY nutritious organ meat - high in taurine) gizzards (is a muscle meat - great for cleaning teeth) chicken feet (good bone source - i.e. for a bone-in meat you could feet pork chops and chicken feet) necks (also a good bone source) ribs (pork ribs have edible bones - usually that is right on the line of thickest bones they can eat, some ferrets can handle pork ribs other can't, or at least don't, eat the bones, but they can often still get the marrow out depending on the cut) For weight gain if you ever need it, look around for some pork side, pork belly (not stomach, but the meat), or uncured bacon. It is all essentially the same thing - very fatty pieces of pork. Duck is also high in fat. In some places Duck is seasonal, but I find that my Asian market carries it year round. Their diet should be pretty high in fat naturally so unless you are feeding fatty meats as their primary diet you shouldn't have to worry about them being too fattening. If anything they make up for the leanness of chicken. Here are some menus from graduated mentees... Feed them heart at least 1-2 times a week so that they are getting the taurine that they need. And organs should be 10% of the diet. Ideally the organ meat should be half liver, and the other half a variety of things such as: kidney, spleen, and brain.
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Post by katt on Nov 17, 2012 2:05:14 GMT -5
Here are some example menus. Your final menu should look something like these... SUNDAY: AM- Cornish Hen: Wings , rib cage and diced meat PM- elk tendons and commerical Duck patties (pretty sure the Duck patties have bone in them, not sure about organs - yet to pick them up) MONDAY: AM - Organs (chicken liver, hopefully other types of liver, beef organ patties eventually and pork brain - what other organs do they need? spleen? kidney?) And I realize they are going to have nasty poops ;D Do I give a whole bunch of organs at once or alternate them each week? Is it better to split this into two meals? PM - Cornish Hen: Legs, back and diced meat (basically the rest of the cornish hen from Sunday) TUESDAY: AM - Pork Muscle Meat (depending on what I have on hand this will be one or more of the following: pork tenderloin, pork chops, pork ribs - they don't really eat the bones so it counts as muscle meat, pork belly sliced - it looks like unseasoned bacon, the closest thing I could find to what you described) PM - Hearts and chicken necks(Chicken hearts for now, but hopefully I can get pork and beef hearts too) WEDNESDAY: AM - Goat meat (stewing goat chunks/some bone, commercial ground goat/includes organs) PM - Chicken wings and chicken backs THURSDAY: AM - Turkey Necks and split turkey wings PM - Hearts and chicken gizzards(hopefully a different kind of heart from what they had earlier in the week) FRIDAY: AM - Lamb meat and bones (commercial ground lamb/includes organs, and lamb bones to chew on - don't think they can eat these, just suck the marrow out) PM - Whole Quail (bone in) cut into smaller chunksSATURDAY: AM - Hearts (hopefully different from whatever kind of hearts they got earlier in the week - if I could go pork hearts one meal, chicken hearts one meal and beef hearts one meal I think I'd be set and wouldn't have to supplement with Taurine? Or should I get taurine supplements anyways?) PM - Commerical rabbit meat (ground carcass with bone- I too think this includes organs but let me know if you find out) I do want to get Beef in there somewhere too once I can get them eating it. I actually bought veal cutlets and am going to try them with veal first and then work my way up to the beef ;D Also possibly work frozen thawed mice in eventually, but I think for now that's a decent menu? Okay sounds good, I added more bone to the menu, I was so glad to hear that I could use them more than once For some reason some meats (even the obvious ones) are hard to find here Oh well, let me know what you think, again Fifth ferret menu.Monday: turkey breast, turkey necks, heart Tuesday: gizzards, pork loin chop meat, chicken wings Wednesday: chicken feet, salmon Thursday: heart, veal- only meat, chicken drumstick or thigh (bone broken up) Friday: liver, chicken ribs Saturday: heart, chicken or turkey neck Sunday: chicken wings, heart, and beef sirloin I will also switch out some of these meats for bison, lamb, and other fish (such as whitefish, halibut, and tilapia) I noticed the local market has duck feet and head, as well as pig face which appears to have meat, fat, skin, and cartilage. My fuzzes already love eating the bones in chicken feet so I bet duck feet would be a no-brainer. I could incorporate those, to get this: Third draft: Monday morning - Mousey (whole, jumbo mice) Monday night - Rabbit legs or ribcage (I forget which I have left) Tuesday morning - Chicken hearts Tuesday night - Chicken wings Wednesday morning - Turkey neck Wednesday night - Turkey back and ribs Thursday morning - Duck hearts with chicken feet Thursday night - Pig heart with chicken feet Friday morning - Chicken back & breast Friday night - Pig face Saturday morning - Beef heart with duck feet Saturday night - Beef heart with duck feet Sunday morning - Chicken liver & gizzard Sunday night - Turkey liver & gizzard What do you think? Today is beef chunks and some left over ground turkey. There is some pork on sale for $1.29 a lb, so I am going to pick some of that up this weekend. I'm not sure if you saw my "Diet of mostly rodents" thread. I definitely want to do mostly whole prey eventually. The cost right now isn't necessarily feasible, but that is my eventual goal. With my girls pickiness, I don't think large whole prey will be an option for a bit. If I just put a rabbit in front of them they will pick and choose what they want. But with smaller whole prey, that is much harder What do you think of this diet: Monday: Mice Tuesday: Rats Wednesday: Bone in meal Thursday: Hamsters Friday: Gerbils Saturday: Bone in meal + extra organs Sunday: Bone out meal Would this be a little better? MONDAY -Chicken wings -Turkey neck TUESDAY -Pork chops -Liver and hearts WEDNESDAY -Quail -Turkey breasts THURSDAY -Hearts, gizzards and kidney/liver -Lamb FRIDAY -Veal and liver -Chicken ribs SATURDAY -Rabbit meat -Chicken wings SUNDAY -Chicken legs -Pork chunks I'll try getting in some more variety, if I can find goat, buffalo, duck, etc...I'll add some in there! I could also try giving them a rat or a mouse here and there but I'm not too comfortable with seeing a ripped open mouse in my cage just yet. ;D When I get more comfortable with prey, I can get some frozen rabbits at my reptile store, I'm sure they would enjoy that. Just a few examples. The ratios should be roughly (as a reminder) 10-15% bone, 10% organ (at least half liver), and 75-80% muscle meat (including heart, and gizzards). Ok a few things. You are still going to need more bone in the diet. Think of how much bone is in each bony item and how that compares to the amount of meat in overall mass. Then shoot for 10-15% bone. Also, just because a bone is not edible does not mean that you cannot offer it, it just means that it doesn't "count." I give my boys pork chops and they will often eat the smaller pieces of bone and suck the marrow out of the thicker parts. It is still good for them to chew on as long as it is not too heavy (beef bones are typically a no-no, most pork bones are okay). With the bigger bones just be sure to remove them after 24 hours as they will begin to dry out and they can crack their teeth on them. Your heart ratios look a bit better. I would make sure that the liver is a significant portion of the meal that day too. If it helps you any (I know it makes it easier for me) think of it this way... 7 days a week x 2 meals a day=> 1 meals a day. So ONE whole meal is going to be slightly less than 10%. 7 days a week x 3 meals a day=> 2 full meals is going to equal almost exactly 10%. They need organ 10-15% bone 10-15% and the remainder should be muscle meat - gizzards and heart are both muscles, and heart should be a significant portion of that. I'd try to shoot for about 10% heart - so 2 meals a week - at least. As long as their poops are solid, more heart never hurts. So as a ROUGH GUIDE: FOURTEEN MEALS One meal organs (1/2 liver, ½ other organ) One meal half heart, half liver One meal hearts The rest of the meals should be mostly muscle meat, including heart, gizzard, and BONE. Let me know if you have any questions on any of that!
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Post by katt on Nov 17, 2012 2:07:03 GMT -5
Now with the above in mind let's try to work a little more variety into your fuzz' diet. You have the basic 3 proteins, but more is always better. It should be easy enough to introduce new proteins since Molson already eats meats!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2012 19:47:21 GMT -5
i have no asian markets arent me, just chain grocery stores, i live in a very non multi cultural area lol. i have never found pheasants,goose nor quail and venison and moose always come marinated from compagnies where i have found them. he isnt interested in hunting any prey, or eating it even if it's already dead...
i have heard that fish leaves a digusting smell once your ferret poops it out and i have always had a problem with fish so i'd like to try to avoid it as much as possible lol.
i have given him turkey wings before but the bones seemed too big for him? maybe he's just lazy lol everytime ive given him a bone that required a bit of work he leaves it lol.
i will try and find the rest when i go to the store tomorrow. but regarding portions, how much should i be giving?
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Post by katt on Nov 18, 2012 1:01:09 GMT -5
Turkey bones do tend to be a bit big for them. The best thing to do is break them so they have a starting point. I use an ulu to smash the bones up. Other people use meat cleavers, poultry shears, or just a hammer and scissors. I haven't ever really fed fish, so I can't comment on the smell. Koda never liked seafood, so I didn't bother with Kenai. :/ I would think that small amounts of freshwater fish wouldn't be too bad though. Do any of your stores carry Cornish Game Hens? They are spendy but a GREAT source of edible bone, and a good way to add in the occasional variety.
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Post by katt on Nov 18, 2012 23:18:35 GMT -5
Whoops forgot to answer your amount question. Feed him as much as he will eat. Wih very little exception, ferrets on raw will self regulate their food intake.
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Post by katt on Nov 20, 2012 3:59:14 GMT -5
*bump*
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Post by katt on Nov 23, 2012 2:06:13 GMT -5
Any progress on a menu? Any questions? Any luck finding any new meats?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2012 13:45:26 GMT -5
I'm so sorry !I'm in exams period so I've been lacking free! For finding game hens that would be a negative. I would need to buy something to mash up the bones and then try that .we are going at the end of this week to buy new food (since we still had a lot left husband didn't wanna buy more until that was done.before I go I'll make a feeding schedule using what I know I can find and show it to you so you can let me know if it's alright .
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Post by katt on Nov 29, 2012 22:36:05 GMT -5
I'm so sorry !I'm in exams period so I've been lacking free! For finding game hens that would be a negative. I would need to buy something to mash up the bones and then try that .we are going at the end of this week to buy new food (since we still had a lot left husband didn't wanna buy more until that was done.before I go I'll make a feeding schedule using what I know I can find and show it to you so you can let me know if it's alright . No worries. Post your new menu and I'll let you know if I see anything that looks like it needs adjusting. As for bones, a lot of people use a hammer and scissors, or poultry shears. Personally I use an ulu. It's super awesome for bones. I can get them for about $3 up here and ship them for a few more bucks. I'm pretty slow as it takes me time to get to the Post Office (it's across town and my schedule doesn't always allow me to get over there during business hours), but I wouldn't mind sending you one if you want. I have someone else on the forum I am going to try to send one out for this week if I can, I could ship yours at the same time. Prices have gone up a little bit since this post, and the designs available are slightly different. www.holisticferret60.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=store&action=display&thread=2691
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Post by katt on Dec 2, 2012 19:04:09 GMT -5
Bump
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