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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2012 2:12:35 GMT -5
Hello everyone. Me and my partner have decided after much thought to look into getting a ferret. So I decided to join this forum to gather some more information. Because working at a petstore ive learned that most times the things that people at the companies tell you isnt always the best choice for nutrition. 1. What is the best brand cat food to feed. 2. Dog and ferret? Best way to socialize? 3. Does anyone else have any opinion on letting the ferrets having free run of most the house (ferret proofed of course) Also with the exception of at night and when we are not home. 4. Any litter for the litter box that is not good for ferrets? Maybe cat litter? Do they tend to eat it? Thank you for any input. Will be greatly appreciated. (Side note: I do work at a holistic pet store so I have access to pretty much any animal product you could imagine. I like my animals to have the best nutrition possible.) Welcome to the forum! Good for you to be doing your research prior to the arrival of your fuzzy! You will get many different answers because not all of us approach ferranthood identically. As with many endeavors plans will change and evolve as experience is gained. But it is always nice to get a bit of a head start by using the experiences of others to build upon. 1. There really is no ONE best brand of cat food to feed to ferrets because if one MUST feed that *stuff* it is always recommended to feed a mixture of at least three different kinds, preferrably based upon three different supposed animal protein sources and as low carb/grain free/ sugar free as possible. Good luck! Steer clear of anything with bright colors, flavors added, Veterinarian approved or that is sold at Walmart or any grocery store and even many of the large chain pet stores. So as far as the best cat "foods" which are ideal for ferrets... you would be talking rodents, small birds, rabbits, invertebrates, insects, etc. 2. Dogs and ferrets. Ferrets are actually closer to dogs than cats on the evolutionary tree. Keep this in mind regarding territory, mentality, intelligence, boldness, & character. Ferrets have no fear and are insatiably curious combined with neverending tenacity. The are possessive and protective as are dogs. They also exhibit jealousy. If their first plan fails they will cogitate a while and revise as needed. They can be vengeful and spiteful. To a ferret any dog or cat is a wonderful play toy especially when the toy runs away. And most all ferrets revell in a game of tag. Small dogs bones and tendons can be easily injured by ferret teeth. Ferrets have the jaw strength of a medium sized dog coupled with cat like teeth. Big dogs see ferrets as nifty rag doll toys to be tossed and shaken and pounced upon. This type of play has punctured many a ferret's lungs, broken their backs and killed them. Dogs and ferrets are NOT a good mix. Cats on the other hand will tend to move to places the ferret cant get to. Still they can do considerable damage to a persistent ferret. 3. Free roam of a ferret proofed house makes for the happiest ferrets. But takes a huge commitment from ALL members of the house as well as visitors. Judicious use of no climb baby gates, boards and fence panels can keep the roamers confined to acceptable rooms. Neat freaks need to re-assess their OCD habits.... Caring for free roam ferrets is not for the squeamish or those upset by disorder. Oops poops are a guarantee. So eliminate as much carpeting as you can before they arrive. A damp mop is soo much easier than a rug machine. No recliners or rockers EVER! Free roam ferrets will engage you in their games of tag, hide and seek, they will wrestle with you, snuggle with you, groom you, cuddle you, smooch you, ambush you, chase you and beg for massages. At least all my wanderers do. 4. NO cat litters. No clay based or clumping or those crystals. Pine pellets or newsprint pellets (however I stopped using news pellets when I kept finding bits of plastic as well as staples in them). Ive been very pleased with Equine Pine from Tractor Supply. Ferrets wont eat the litter but if they stash their food in the litter pan some may get ingested. 5. Working at a holistic pet store may offer great avenues for some quality foods, but to offer your ferrets THE BEST nutrition possible means to feed them their optimum diet which means a raw natural diet. It really is SAFE, easy, can be less expensive than kibble and offers tremendous health and psychological and emotional benefits for them! Peruse this site for tons of great info. View the before and after pix of converts and enjoy the wonderful world of ferret fun! oh yeah, keep in mind ferrets are addictive. One or two is usually the gateway. Then, like enjoying m&ms you simply cant stop! Cheers! Some pocket fuzz from my SG II
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Post by manda on Nov 27, 2012 4:46:49 GMT -5
Welcome! I'm sure you'll know everything there is to know about ferrets by then, no worries And for the cat food everywhere I have read has said that Purina Kitten food is the best. Purina is trash for any animal. It nearly killed my cat Merlin. I'll give you a hint- any food you can buy at a chain pet store, super market or big box department store such as Walmart or Target is NOT something you want to fed ANY animal. These stores do not sell any good quality foods, they only sell sugared up grain filled crap. If you feel you must feed a kibble, you can use this website to help you pick a good one out. moredooks.herobo.com/search.php?chart=ferret Hopefully that link works for you, there appears to be a DNS error for some people and it hasn't been working for me lately. The "best" kibbles to feed are Wysong Epigen 90 (ferret), Orijen cat, Go! Fit & Free, Wellness Core cat, Nature's Variety Instinct with freeze dried raw bits. Avoid any food with any grains such as corn, wheat, barley, rice. Minimum protein is 40%, minimum fat should be 20%. Raw is still your best option. If you can afford the high quality, grain free kibbles you could feed commercial raw your store should sell such as NVI, S&C's, Bravo etc and supplement with raw, meaty bones for dental care. Avoid all clay and clumping litters. Oh wow. How did it almost kill your cat? I googled it when I first got mine, and everywhere I read said it was the best you could feed a ferret if you were feeding them cat food. My boyfriend had ferrets all his life and that's what they fed theirs and they all lived quite a long time, with no health problems at all. So idk, I'm not saying it isn't bad, of course feeding an animal food that wasn't made for it in general is a bad idea and Like you said all food you can buy at a walmart is trash. It just amazes me that they're allowed to make and sell food that isn't good for you pet. You'd think they'd have some kind of regulation on selling garbage.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2012 8:07:55 GMT -5
Purina is trash for any animal. It nearly killed my cat Merlin. I'll give you a hint- any food you can buy at a chain pet store, super market or big box department store such as Walmart or Target is NOT something you want to fed ANY animal. These stores do not sell any good quality foods, they only sell sugared up grain filled crap. If you feel you must feed a kibble, you can use this website to help you pick a good one out. moredooks.herobo.com/search.php?chart=ferret Hopefully that link works for you, there appears to be a DNS error for some people and it hasn't been working for me lately. The "best" kibbles to feed are Wysong Epigen 90 (ferret), Orijen cat, Go! Fit & Free, Wellness Core cat, Nature's Variety Instinct with freeze dried raw bits. Avoid any food with any grains such as corn, wheat, barley, rice. Minimum protein is 40%, minimum fat should be 20%. Raw is still your best option. If you can afford the high quality, grain free kibbles you could feed commercial raw your store should sell such as NVI, S&C's, Bravo etc and supplement with raw, meaty bones for dental care. Avoid all clay and clumping litters. Oh wow. [img src="http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h352/JW_2012/Emoticons/ i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h352/JW_2012/Emoticons/0_0.gif"].gif [/IMG] How did it almost kill your cat? I googled it when I first got mine, and everywhere I read said it was the best you could feed a ferret if you were feeding them cat food. My boyfriend had ferrets all his life and that's what they fed theirs and they all lived quite a long time, with no health problems at all. So idk, I'm not saying it isn't bad, of course feeding an animal food that wasn't made for it in general is a bad idea and Like you said all food you can buy at a walmart is trash. It just amazes me that they're allowed to make and sell food that isn't good for you pet. You'd think they'd have some kind of regulation on selling garbage. [/quote] I don't know where you saw those reviews about that cat food, if it's Purina Kitten Chow. That stuff is icky even for cats! I wouldn't go so far as to say it kills them but I know a poor diet can cause lots of problems. Although it has high protein , its sorta low on fat and has bad ingredients. These are the first few ingredients in it: "Poultry by-product meal, corn gluten meal, brewers rice, soy flour, animal fat, fish meal, wheat flour, animal liver flavour" Yuck! I wouldn't even consider that real food I agree that its messed up that companies are allowed to sell foods that are bad for animals.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2012 8:14:16 GMT -5
It caused my cat to build up stones or some sort of sludge in his bladder which blocked him up and made it so he couldn't pee. We had him drained and emptied out, but the damage was done. Even though we got rid of the food immediately and went back to his old, he would regularly block up and have problems for the rest of his life, the vet's best guess was she didn't get all of it and we couldn't afford to put him through surgery again. She had seen 2-3 other cats with the same issue, same food that week.
We contacted Purina with a complaint. Their resolution? They sent us a $150 check as an apology with a "if you cash this you waive all right to legal action" notice even thought heir vet called and talked to our vet and said he had a UTI. Our cat never once in his life had a UTI and peed liked a racehorse before their g*ddamn food.
What does that say to you? They know their food is crap. They'll send you a token amount of money to keep you out of court and the media where you can do some REAL damage to their bottom line. I am so mad my mom cashed that check. I wanted to bring it to the local news and get the word out their stuff is animal killing trash, I didn't care about the money even though we couldn't afford it- was over $1,000. They know their stuff is crap. They don't care. They have the government in their pocket so they can put out whatever they want. Pet food regulations are almost nonexistent, they have to do very little testing to prove it is "safe".
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Post by Sherry on Nov 27, 2012 10:18:49 GMT -5
My boyfriend had ferrets all his life and that's what they fed theirs and they all lived quite a long time, with no health problems at all. Ferrets as a rule were much healthier even 10 years ago. All the breeding of fancies has brought out all kinds of problems.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2012 0:50:23 GMT -5
Only raw foods I have access to is beef, chicken or lamb natures variety Or bramble hills chicken,beef, turkey. Can I mix raw and kibble? feed raw only at night then kibble for breakfast? I was going to use Orijen cat food, there is also Go! grain free. I'm pretty educated on the healthy cat and dog foods. Our store doesn't sell junk like purina and Iams and eukanuba. Luckily My dog is pretty amazing Hes a mini Australian shepherd. Was fine with my rabbit. Only wined at her when she would steal his bed. Lets the rats crawl on him.. Pretty calm guy especially for and Aussie. What does everyone use for odor control of these guys? Anything to avoid? I use the tropiclean shampoos and sprays for my pup and they say they can be used on ferrets.. but never know.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2012 3:27:31 GMT -5
I don't use any odour control for Nibbler. The more you wash a ferret the more they smell. I just keep his litter tray and bedding clean and frequently washed/changed. He does not smell at all offensive, even to non ferret lovers.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2012 4:14:27 GMT -5
Naturally fed ferrets with clean litter pans and fresh bedding weekly do NOT smell. Period.
When was the last time you opened a bag of kibble or canned pet food and taking in a whiff you thought, "mmmm that smells great!" ?
I'd guess - never.
If it smells that bad going in, it ain't gonna smell any better after digestion. While ferrets don't sweat through their body like we do; they have oil glands for their fur. If their body's only internal source of oils stems from the typical 4D animal protein sources used in pet foods..... rancid rendered fats smell horrible.
Keep in mind that natural/raw meals are more nutrient dense so only require meals at 12 hour intervals. Also they are more digestible so the deposits are smaller and fewer in quantity!
Non smelly ferrets are another perk to natural feeding! I have several ferrets that havent had nor needed a bath for YEARS! New intakes often get the last bath of their lives. Its great smelling the intakes through their conversions. As their bodies literally detoxify from kibble their coats not only change in density, texture, length and color but their odor disappears too!
I clean litter pans twice daily and change newspaper pathways once a day. Cuddle cups, sleep sacks and blankies get changed every week. Cage shelves and floors are lined with cut pile bath mats which get changed every two weeks and the cages get wiped down and sanitized. I use disinfectant wipes from Walmart. Foaming disinfectant for trays with tough oops poops (usually in a corner). Then finish cleaning with lysol type surface disinfectant/air freshener. Cages are allowed to air dry thoroughly before ferrets allowed access.
The cages are interconnected with a maze of tunnels and occupy a playpen area of 7' x 12'. For those rare occassions when everyone has to be enclosed. One group gets the cage bank. The other group gets the pen floor and cubbies. With 14 this works well.
Some pocket fuzz from my SG II
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2012 8:44:56 GMT -5
I ask everyone who visits my house to be honest with me and tell me if it smells due to the ferrets so I can be sure I'm up on my housekeeping, since I no longer smell anything when I walk in.
For an answer I get "I can tell you have pets when I walk in, but it doesn't smell like dirty litter box or bad, it just smells like there's some animals here." Which from my memory of owning cats and a dog at my parents' was about the same thing.
The ferret's food smells worse than them- they like to let their chicken bones sit for a couple of days and dry out into jerky before eating it- yuck! I usually throw it away when I can't stand the smell anymore.
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Post by Sherry on Nov 28, 2012 11:51:38 GMT -5
Galexy- the goods you mentioned, are those all commercial raw? What sorts of meat can you get at your local grocer's?
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Post by Sherry on Nov 28, 2012 11:53:23 GMT -5
Sorry- just retread your first post! One question- if you can feed commercial raw(very expensive), may I ask why regular raw meaty bones aren't an option?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2012 13:59:48 GMT -5
Sorry- just retread your first post! One question- if you can feed commercial raw(very expensive), may I ask why regular raw meaty bones aren't an option? The reason I don't like to feed grocers raw is because of all the recalls lately. We don't eat a lot of meat and my girlfriend is vegetarian. But we are ready to do whats best for our fur kids. If there is a recall and we eat the meat. We get sick. If my pets eat it. They could die. The natures Variety and bramble hills are both commercial raw. That Have never had a recall (only dry NV) Plus its a lot more mess free and less hands on. Have you tried the Natures Variety or heard anything about it?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2012 16:17:46 GMT -5
Oh yes, I use NVI along with a few other brands. It's great but not as good as making your own diet from grocery store cuts due to the expense. Also, be prepared to be brushing your ferrets teeth all the time if you don't do RMB, they don't get any help from commercial grind/soup with dental care.
I wish my two stubborn kids would eat their dang bones/chunks of meat so I could stop buying the commercial grind.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2012 17:03:40 GMT -5
Galaxygecko- I'm not sure whare you live, (US, CANADA,ect...) but if you have a Costco warehouse near you, that's whare we get our meat and never had a problem with it. The one place that we stay away from is Walmart. All our animals have gotten sick from them more than once. Don't get me wrong, it is still safe for humans since we cook it for ourselves. I have also herd of more recalls from kibble than raw. There are so many benifits with feeding raw over feeding kibble. I find in my home, they do great with once a day feedings. I just do 2 feedings a day. i give them breakfast, then at night, if there is still food left in the cage, i give them less for dinner. With kibble, you MUST keep food in at all times since their digestive system from start to Finnish is only 3-4 hrs. I also can't stand how ferrets smell on kibble, (even high quality). They poop and drink less on raw because they use most of their food and raw gives them most of their water needs. With cat litters, you CAN use sweet scoop. As far as dogs, you have to use extream caution. For example: I have 3 poodles, 2 can have SUPERVISED play with the ferrets, but one is not aloud in the same room with the ferrets, when the ferrets are out of cage.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2012 1:46:52 GMT -5
GalaxyGecko commented:
actually that's backwards.... your carnivorous pets MIGHTget sick - but isn't likely because their digestive tract works faster than the time it takes for a salmonella or e.coli colony to multiply to a dangerous level. Humans on the other hand with their MUCH slower and longer digestive tract offer these bacteria all kinds of time to set up camp to get to a harmful level.
You are still acquiescing to the rampant myths, fear-mongering and outright lies of pet food manufacturers and un-informed vets and anmal handlers.
Simple hand washing with soap and water before and after handling any raw meaty items will keep you safe. Standard washing of countertops and dishes is all that's necessary for healthy, safe raw meat handling.
If I am not mistaken, we have several vegetarian and vegan folks on the forum that have graduated to offering their ferrets the optimum diet. At first I used gloves for handling the meats being fed but now simply wash up. I do continue to use gloves when field dressing game for them. But even handling the mouse colony dinner invitees, I use bare hands and simply wash with soap and water after handling.
Hard surfaces get a soapy wash,towel or paper towel dry and then a disinfectant wipe down. Food dishes get washed by hand like my own dishes in the hottest soapy water my hands can stand, then rinsed in hot water with white vinegar added for final disinfection, then allowed to air dry overnight.
Believe me, with the thousands of raw and whole prey meals I've fed over the years, If I was going to get sick - it would have happened by now!
THere are MANY MANY more instances of contamination infections stemming from commercial processed animal foods than there have been from raw human grade grocers.
Check the CDC site.
The benefits to feeding raw outweigh ALL the so called "risks" and dangers that commercial processed food makers would have you believe!
We all like to see these guys get the best chance at a long healthy life - and that entails raw meaty bones and natural prey items in their natural forms - or as close to natural form as possible.
Your fears and hesitations are well understood - we all went through them during the beginning. WE have also learned how ingrained these myths have become in our pet owning society and how it does NOTHING to benefit the pet but will greatly benefit the pockets of the food processors!
AS an example: When I feed Cornish game hens to my fuzz butts - they get all the meaty boney parts and I will save a breast or two each week for myself! Chicken wings bought in family style packages offer good savings. They get the wing tips, I get the flats and drummettes! Chicken necks are all for them. Chicken backs - fat chunks get trimmed and saved for their soupies and when making their soupies I start with a huge kettle, add the chicken backs and trimmed fat pieces from backs that got fed. Then I split the boiled stock - I save some for me for homemade chicken soup; they 'll get more ingredients added and the bones will continue to cook until they turn to mush. then the mix goes into icecube trays to freeze dry in the freezer. Chicken livers I don't freeze dry for them, I dredge and deep fry for myself! A rabbit picked up for them gets treated like a CGH - they get the meaty boney pieces, I take the loin. Share and share alike!
So what I buy for them at the grocer I can share and vice versa! Feeding raw really can be MUCH more economical than kibble - cuz ain't no way I'm snackin on THAT crunchy crap!
Cheers!
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