Raw fed dog and low weight issues.

[Deleted]

Hi ALL!

I have a few questions I hope you can help with and maybe some brain storming ideas.

I have a 4yr old Chihuahua mix. She is unaltered and weighs (suppose to)about 12lbs. We have been feeding her raw for almost 2 yrs. At 12 lbs she is a very lean, muscular animal.

So in sept we noticed she seemed to be losing weight. Because we had been at the trailer a lot this sumer we thought more exercise so she might need more food to keep up. We upped the amount of food from 2.5 ozs to 3ozs twice a day (so 6ozs total a day). This did not seem to help.
She has been to the vet, and is down to 11.2 lbs. Her spine sticks out and her hip bones are now noticeable. All blood work and stool samples came back normal. Vet is thinking IBS given a few looser stools.
Energy and appetite are good. NO other issues/symptoms.

We have been limiting her to proteins she would not normally have, and have not had any more loose stools. (she is getting rabbit, boar and a dehydrated kangaroo. organs unfortunately occasionally have to be beef or chicken due to lack of availability)
I`ve been adding extra veggies, and or quinao(on top of the 3oz of pure meat). as well she gets slippery elm and acidophilus.
She`s been on the new diet routine for only two weeks, and I know it`s early, but it does not seem to be changing anything.

I"m at a bit of a loss as to what else to try (assuming it is diet that is causing it). I"m not convinced it is.
The vet is going to want an update, and I had to be a bit insistent on keeping her on raw, so I know this talk she will want canned food and antibiotics (not totally opposed to the antibiotics just didn't want to go straight to that with out knowing for sure it was needed)


Any thoughts on what else might be causing this? Any thoughts on what else to try diet wise?

thx

[Deleted]

Ok! First thing is that I feed raw meat and bones ONLY. That being said, I have an 11 pound miniature poodle who is 11 years old. He has to eat 10oz per day just to keep him to a proper weight. Is sounds to me that you may need to up her food even more than you have. I would try upping your feeding to 10oz per day then go from their. Check weight each wk. sometimes these little guys need to eat a lot to keep their weight on.

[Heather]

I don't know about these high energy...nervous type dogs...they seem to wear it off just standing still but that being said, the meats you're feeding are horribly lean. Up the fat and because she's also touchy with her stools add some pumpkin. The veggie matter though helping her is only filling her, not doing anything for her weight gain. You want fatty meats to put on weight. It sounds to me as though loose stools was your primary issue (wether because of allergy or IBD we don't know), and you've solved that with the novel proteins. Now, you need to dig deeper and find out the source of your loose stools. Add a protein that was part of her old diet and see what happens, document it. Make sure that you don't add anything else new for at least 2 weeks....so her novel proteins (which are sitting ok) and her new meat...no other meats. I had to do this for my pyr. Horrible icky stools and of course weight loss and impacted anal glands (these go hand in hand with looser stools). I soon figured out he needed a higher than normal bone content and I had to be careful about the amount of beef he was eating. In the end it turned out to be a grain allergy. I was fine if he had beef once a week, but any more than that was a mess. I could feed beef every day if it was range fed. If the beef had been grain fed (all commercial beef are grain fed while sitting in holding waiting for slaughter, even the range fed summer beef) I couldn't feed very often, if I went to the farmer's market and got range fed meat then he was fine.
I wish it was an easy answer but with diet it never is. The problem you're running in with is the amount of fat you're feeding =weight loss. So, if you lack fatty meats, up the amount she's eating. A normal dog eats 3 to 5 percent of their "desired" body weight. So, if you want her to 12lbs you adjust your measurement for that weight. Same thing if you're trying to loose weight...it's 3 to 5 percent of the desired weight, not the existing weight.
ciao

[Deleted]

Thanks for the input.

Im a bit confused, I thought it was 2-3% of the animals healthy weight??

Yes I realize the meats were lean, but only wanted for short term while seeing if things improved.
Other then chicken what would be higher in fat. I can get tripe high in fat, but its beef.... so was holding off. Thus my frustration with an illumination type diet... having the right things available.

Wow Sheila, that's almost 10%a of her weight.


K phone dying, will check back after work.

Thx again

[Sherry]

Lamb is fairly fatty, as is duck.

[Heather]

Goose, some pork cuts (cheaper ones ;D), lamb (again some cuts...it's very expensive here). If she can eat chicken choose the fattier cuts, dark meats. Tripe would be awesome, but if you're still not ready to try beef I understand
ciao

[Heather]

Oct 29, 2012 15:42:48 GMT -5 @3kaw said:

Thanks for the input.

Im a bit confused, I thought it was 2-3% of the animals healthy weight??

Wow Sheila, that's almost 10%a of her weight.


K phone dying, will check back after work.

Thx again

Sorry. You're right I had been working with someone who's high energy hunting hound was at a low weight. That's what we worked out that she needed. Sorry, didn't mean to confuse
ciao

[Deleted]

Here is my dogs weights and feeding amounts:
Paris- toy poodle, 3 yrs, weighs 3#4oz, eats 2oz daily
Jake- miniature poodle, 11yrs, weighs 12#'s, eats 10oz daily
Then we go to the big kids:
Jewels- standard poodle, 3 yrs, weighs 50#'s, eats 1# daily
Ricky(no longer own)- American pit bull, 5 yrs, weighs 80#'s, ate 3# daily.
All are at proper weight. We tried those given %'s but that is an estimate, (a place to start). A lot depends on the dogs metabolism. This website is what I use:
www.raw4dogs.com/calculate.htm

2% if your dog is fat
2.5% - 3% to maintain present weight
Feed more % to fatten a skinny dog
Puppies may require up to 10% of body weight

Remember this is only a place to start,
adjust everything up or down, depending on your dogs condition.
As far as meat, the only ones we can get around here are beef, chicken, rabbit, pork. We don't get the cool meats like kangaroo. We also use only the cheapest meats since they have the most fat.

[Deleted]

Ok thx heather, im less confuses now lol.

Thx Sheila. I have 3 and have played a fair bit with the numbers for the other two. The old girl was 20lbs over weight, so we based her on 3% of her ideal weight (I choose 3% as she was new to raw and old, did not want to shock her system too much.)now she is down 15lbs. Over last 6 months. And the other gets only 6 ozs a day for her 16lbs weight cause any more and she packs on the weight. So I get the play in the amounts based on needs. I guess my confusion is in why after almost 2 yrs the change in her needs.when she appeared to be doing great before.

Ok I think I can try adding pork, and lamb would be easier to find, and fattier.
Heather where did you find goose? Never seen that anywhere but the local pond .

The kangaroo is not a norm here either Sheila, and I dont do a lot of dehydrated but my raw food store had it and thought it would a good alternative and highly unlikely for her to have a reaction to it.


How much more you think I should try to give her and how fast would expect to see a response. Both my other two we went down in ozs they responded quickly, but this concerns me more and want to be sure fast she is getting what she needs.

(edited cause my phone went screwy and would not let me change anything... oy if you read the first and made sense you my hero! lol)

[Deleted]

If I base it on jakes food, I would increase the food to 8oz daily. Give it 2 wks, and weigh her. If she is still loosing or just staying the same, I would increase it up to 10 oz, give it 2 wks then weigh again. If she is gaining at 8oz, I would keep it at that until she gets up to normal weight. Once she looks good, if she is still gaining, then decrease by 1 oz every 2 wks till you keep a steady weight.

[Heather]

Local grocery store. I can also get it at the farmer's market. The emu farmer raises goose and duck too
ciao

[Deleted]

Edited my last post. My phone kept adding words when I hit the space bar then didn't let me edit it. thxs for trying to understand it.

she will be thrilled with supper tonight!
thx ladies.