|
Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2012 20:08:26 GMT -5
Thanks for giving me some fresh perspective. I am glad most breeders are trying to breed out health problems, it just sucks that, like Laurel said, some are breeding problems INTO the animals.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2012 20:43:47 GMT -5
I brought up the whole 'bettering the breed' issue onto a German shepherd forum I frequent. With the distinct separation of the lines, it's literally just in each breeder's interpretation of what 'better' is.
With that being said, I have nothing against reputable breeders. More often than not, they have more people on their waiting lists than they will have puppies available, almost all puppies are spoken for before a litter is even born (if not, then before they're 8 weeks old), and everyone has their own tastes.
For me, I like working line German shepherds. I do like the German showlines, but I don't know if I'd own one. I absolutely would not own an American showline. I don't care for them, I don't find them attractive, and I don't like their (generally) poor work ethic and temperaments. Every reputable breeder I have come across has something in their contract stating that if you cannot keep the animal, it is to either 1) Be returned to them at your expense, or 2) The breeder must approve of the person you want to rehome the animal to. Honestly, there is NO reason an animal from a reputable breeder should wind up in a shelter.
Everyone wants what they want. There are some people who will ONLY buy from breeders. They shouldn't have that option taken away from them. I don't feel it's wrong for someone to want to go a route where they'll pay good money for a dog that they know the background on, know the parents are healthy and temperament tested, etc.
Then there are people who will only go the shelter route. That's fine too.
However, anyone who breeds for profit, or wanting to show their kids the miracle of life, etc. - they are the scum that I feel should be wiped clean off of the planet.
With that being said - it is NOT just the backyard breeders who fill the shelters. It's their scumbag owners also. Yes, BYBs fill the earth with the puppies that they sell on their cute factor to whomever comes to their door with full pockets. But in the end, it is the OWNERS that dump them at the shelter.
|
|
|
Post by Heather on Aug 24, 2012 23:10:55 GMT -5
Exactly. ciao
|
|
|
Post by Sherry on Aug 25, 2012 9:17:10 GMT -5
Agreed. It's the same thing that will always keep mills like Marshall's in business. People take an innocent life for the "cute" factor. When that "cute" wears off, or that life becomes inconvenient- they are thrown out like so much garbage
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2012 10:05:00 GMT -5
It is frustrating, however way you look at it. All we can do is make the difference where we are. Promoting adoption takes that much cash out of the supply and demand chain. Education and adoption are the combination that can take the speed out of factory style breeding facilities. Too many people come in my shop looking for purebreds, knowing nothing about researching the breed for health issues and caring nothing for which breeder or pet store they get one from. Ferrets are also included, and this problem is even worse for ferrets because there are few quality breeders for this type of pet and certainly not enough of them to fill "consumer demand".
The problem is only perpetuated by the uneducated consumer, and is the reason we don't sell dogs (or cats, ferrets), and don't refer breeders. We take the extra effort to try to educate the customer, and promote adoption, but all customers do not want to be "educated", they want instant gratification.
All types of animals fall victim to this shallow consumerism. It is the responsibility of the animal supplier to refuse improperly bred animals, educate the customer, and match the proper human to animal.
There are many many good people out there as well that truly want to give an animal a forever home, and make that animal a part of their life. I cannot imagine my life without a connection to animals, and am thankful for every single one of them, which could not have happened if they were not bred.
Sorry for the long story, this topic is one that I also have strong feelings about, and I let that get away from me there a bit LOL
|
|
|
Post by shiftyferret on Aug 26, 2012 6:52:16 GMT -5
Every one has added such great opinions and points of view to this.
I definitely understand reservations when it comes to supporting breeders when there are countless animals being put to sleep in overcrowded shelters. I've recently made this choice in purchasing a privately bred kit. The breeder made it easy, and part of the agreement on gaining this kit means I must support a ferret shelter of my choice. I found that to be a very responsible and touching act on the breeders part. I wanted a private bred kit just for health and longevity.
I have my rescue ferrets, and my home will ALWAYS have rescue ferrets. We will be open to the unwanted, within our limits, and accept that they will not live long healthy lives.... but we will give them the best care we can to try and compensate for this.
I think there is a HUGE separation between responsible private breeders and back yard breeders/Mills. I think what you describe in your first statement and question is really the practices of a Back yard breeder or a puppy mill. I cannot stand those. They perpetuate overcrowded shelters(yes, technically it is the owners of the pets as others have stated). I do NOT support these breeders.
On the flip side, if you removed responsible breeders completely... what kind of animal would we be left with? Just what mills produce... the breed/species would be doomed. Within a couple generations you would loose the pet/species entirely.
Responsible breeders do not fall into this problem, and they are the only thing keeping healthy animals in existence for the next generations. Our great grandkids will know what a ferret is because of them.
|
|
|
Post by goingpostal on Aug 27, 2012 10:46:33 GMT -5
Currently I have a Pit who's a breeder boy as well. And I know a lots of you rescue and 1000's of Pits die in shelter each and every year. But the way I see it, especially with that breed (and that's my choice of breed) I have to know where my dog came from. I can't have any fighting line in my dog, since I have other pets and I have friends with dogs, and that would be a disaster waiting. Every APBT is from "fighting lines", even Amstaffs which have been bred strictly for show still have dog aggression and typical terrier attitude. The vast majority of pit bulls out there are extremely far removed from any fighting dogs but still act like their breed, just like ferrets haven't been bred to hunt/kill for how long but many still do. I hope you will still hang onto and love your pup if he does turn out dog aggressive or selective.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2012 17:10:42 GMT -5
Oooh, I LOVE the idea of breeders requiring you to support a ferret shelter, that's awesome! I think part of the problem is that BYBs get started because they see how much responsible breeders charge for their animals and think 'well d*mn I could use some money too!' I know that breeders can't really prevent that though. I don't know who it was but someone back on page one said something about how if you adopt from a shelter you're still perpetuating the farms (like Marshalls). I still want to know how that is.
|
|
|
Post by Sherry on Aug 27, 2012 17:40:29 GMT -5
Shelter ferrets also come from the farms. And they can only take in so many, so we adopt, remove one(or more) from the shelter system, and the next one tossed away who comes from the mill enters the shelter system. It's a very round about way that is being referred to, and adopting from the shelter doesn't directly put money into the mills, but all the ferrets there COME from the mills.
|
|
|
Post by Heather on Aug 27, 2012 18:50:22 GMT -5
I guess one way to look at it would be if there were no farm ferrets, then there would be very few shelter ferrets. Reputable breeders don't sell to just anyone, they screen their prospective people, they educate, they take back their own....it would and does prevent people from just buying on the moment. To get a breeder ferret you have to do research. A shelter will place and move a ferret but 99% of the time it's a farm ferret they're placing, so indirectly a shelter aids the farms. I had a shelter mom who once told me that shelters perpetuate irresponsibility, if you think about her statement it's true. No, you can't remove the shelter and I'm certain that she didn't mean that no one was supposed to support your local shelter but and you will always find people who will dump their pets. Unfortunately, many people look to shelters to be the soft pad for their conscience. How many now look to the shelter as a solution to their problems. They will buy a pet, without research, without care and when they're tired of it, can't afford it, the pet gets too old, or isn't as cute, can't afford the vetting they will dump it. Shelters allow them to do this without thought. There is no repercussions. They can dump off their pet for a nominal fee and the next day go out and buy another. If you can't afford your ferret take it to a shelter. Can't vet it, take it to a shelter. Have to move, take it to a shelter....It's a vicious circle and one that once started cannot be stopped. Shelters are here and have been taking up unwanted pets for years. At one time, one felt shame for not being able to look after a pet, for surrendering this pet. People would take special care, go the extra mile so that their pets wouldn't be in the shelter. Turning your pet over to an agency was like surrendering your children to the CAS. Now, it's considered a reliable alternative to care. I had a fellow dump 4 ferrets at the shelter (Mayhem, Mad Max, Mischief and Zena)....he said he didn't have time for them. They had been living on a sail boat. I took them and gave them a home. This fellow returned 3 weeks later and wanted them back. It turned out that he was on holidays the ferrets were in the way and he didn't want to have to pay for someone to care for them, so he dumped them at the shelter. He was upset that they had been placed (there was no way I was going to return them to him, it was only a matter of time before they got in the way again) and perplexed that we wouldn't go get the ferret and return them. ciao
|
|
|
Post by Sherry on Aug 27, 2012 20:10:03 GMT -5
And others wonder why people boggle my mind
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2012 20:58:00 GMT -5
I hate people...
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2012 21:50:01 GMT -5
In defense of backyard breeders - not all of them suck. My friend bred for MANY years - her line had very small litters - and she kept ALL of her kits. She bred very, very sparingly - her kits were solid, and her ferrets lived long (some were 10 y.o.!!!), healthy lives. Eventually, she got a few cases (3 or 4) of cardiomyopathy. She "culled" her line and stopped breeding because it got too difficult/expensive to get reliably sound breeding stock. She always had some rescues as well....and now she takes in ferrets that cannot be re-homed (illness, temperament, etc.) My friend is one in a million - she's truly awesome -jennifer
|
|
|
Post by Heather on Aug 27, 2012 23:19:35 GMT -5
I'm sure that I will be classified as a BYB because I will not be showing or participating in any of the usual ferrety type stuff or registering my ferretry. I'm going to be occasionally breeding only to the betterment of the breed. There has to be a way to improve what we're dealing with. ciao
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2012 1:23:10 GMT -5
In my mind, that is not a byb. When I think of that term, I think of people who bang out puppies/ferrets/cats with no science in mind but hope to make a buck, sell them to anyone who has the cash to buy and no regard to the age/health of the mother, etc. Or those who just never get around to s/n their dogs and think up stupid names for the mutts they produce. There are tons of those people, far more of them than responsible , small scale breeders who breed for health, and their own pleasure.
As for the need to know the lineage of any breed, particularly the pitbull....to each his own but I am grateful that there is the adoptive public who don't have that mindset. I am always more than amazed at the wonderful, wonderful dogs who come to me out of the shelters. I don't own large dogs bc I own very tiny ones, but my daughter found a pittie wandering her neighborhood. She was a young dog, stinking of cigarettes, threw up milk cartons and stones and other nonedible things. She immediately bonded with their adopted lab mix and has great respect for her itty bitty chi. She adjusted to their 2 cats, is a wonderful pal to my 2 yo granddaughter and is has far less 'tude than her lab mix brother. She's a great dog who loves all people, most dogs ( and the dogs she doesn't like are those the lab doesn't like and even that becomes a non issue if they can get together off lead) . I trust her no more and no less than I trust any other dog.
|
|