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Post by Sherry on Mar 24, 2013 9:47:46 GMT -5
Hey- you are still making progress Bandit is doing fine where he is right now. He will need another protein at some point soon though, for a minimum of 3. Same for Pogo. Best way to introduce that is to mix the tiniest amount into what they are already eating, and slowly increase it, etc. Even if you only ever get it to half and half they are still getting the benefit of a different protein For Mischief and Tak. Take a neck and section it like before, but chop a single piece up a lot more and mix it with the other meats. Again, over the course of a few days chop less and add more neck. Same with the heart. Start with 2 or 3 slivers mixed in with a meal and slowly increase number and size.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2013 2:44:13 GMT -5
Ok, so we got some mixed reviews. Bandit - Loving the NV and is eating the chunks we mix in. The chunks are still on the small side but he eats them readily and I am upping the amount a bit at a time. We are doing about half chunks half NV at the moment. He is also eating quite a bit - anywhere from 3 to 5 ounces a day, which is great considering it was almost impossible to get 1.5 to 2 ounces in him only a few weeks ago. We are feeding him 3 times a day. His stools are looking good. A strange color and consistency (not unlike his brothers) but I'm chaulking this up to the NV. But they are mostly solid and well formed. His activity levels are slowly increasing and he seems to be feeling well enough. He hasn't gained any weight I don't think, but he hasn't lost any more. On a side note, neither Bandit nor Pogo will touch our homemade soupie anymore and I'm not sure why. Tak and Mischief will still eat the soupie, but not these two. Is this a good or bad thing? Pogo - He is actually eating and LOVING the NV! It took him a while, but he even eats it lukewarm and sometimes will eat it kinda thick (though he still prefers wetter food). Due to the NV being ounce per ounce (vs the homemade soupie being half water half meat) he is also eating more now - 3 to 3.5oz a day vs the 1.5 to 2oz a day he was eating. Actual intake is the same but the food is less watered down, so maybe that is why. As mentioned, he won't really eat the homemade soupie anymore, and he still refuses chunks (we still put small slivers in his NV soup but he manages to eat around them). Mischief - Being a brat! He has his seasons off and went into full winter mode about 3 weeks ago, so he is eating a ton (around 5-6oz a day). However, around the same time he started refusing chunks all together. He would go multiple feedings without eating, so we gave in and gave him soup to make sure he ate something. We started him back on slivers and he is getting back into the swing of things, slowly. He will still hold out for soup though. I've been giving both him and Tak some NV during 2 of their 3 meals to help replace some of their lost nutrition, and to get them use to it. He of course loves it. However, he WILL NOT eat any of the heart or neck still. I've yet to try the livers, but that will come tomorrow (was waiting for them to thaw). Tak - Doing great as usual. However, he is also starting to hold out on his chunks in favor of the NV. He is also still grazing, so I leave his food out until he finishes it (if he does). He also won't eat the necks, but he will chew on them a bit. However, he LOVES the chicken heart and ate 2 whole slivered hearts in a minute today. I will keep working on getting Bandit better with chunks, Pogo to eat at least 1 chunk, and with Tak and Mischief on the necks and organs. I also found a new place with the NV much closer to my house and picked up more of the NV rabbit, and also a bag of NV lamb and NV venison to start my boys on. If/when they start to eat these they will be up to 4 proteins
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Post by Sherry on Mar 28, 2013 9:08:19 GMT -5
In spite of Tak and Mischief being brats, this is FANTASTIC news Bandit and Pogo sound right on track. I am concerned about the other two holding out for some NV though. You really don't want 4 ferret strictly on CR. That CAN get expensive. Keep doing what you are doing for now, and keep pushing the two younger on accepting the bones. The heart/organ might have to be made into a soup for them though, and hand fed for now. With the neck, are you segmenting it and smashing those segments up? That might get them going more. And what all proteins are Tak and Mischief eating now?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2013 14:11:31 GMT -5
Yes, I'm segmenting each neck into 3 pieces and smashing the crap out of each piece. I've tried putting soupie, oil, and tone on them to get them at least licking them, but that is about all they will do is lick them. Tak will chew on the meatier bits (the fat hanging off mostly) but he won't really chew on the smashed up bonier bits. It's odd too as I thought Mischief would love the necks since he likes to chew on his tubes a lot - I was thinking maybe he wanted something to chew on, but apparently only plastic works for his Highness I've got Tak and Mischief eating rabbit and pork, sometimes both in a feeding sometimes only one just depending on what is thawed. Tak likes both but Mischief prefers rabbit. I've tried chicken with them both but they aren't totally fond of it. Bandit will eat both proteins, but like Mischief he prefers rabbit. Still avoiding the chicken for now with Bandit, at least until he gets back up to where he was before with the chunks. Also, a question - I've stopped giving pinches of bonemeal in Tak and Mischief's food since they are getting some NV. Should I continue this or is it better to add a bit of bonemeal? I started giving less NV this morning to Tak and Mischief and I'm going to keep reducing it until they only get a bit as a snack occassionally to see if I can get them back on track. Tak is definitely being a brat as he is eating very little of his chunks, and Mischief is still not big on slivers, but I'm gonna get tough on them again and make them hungry if I have to. On a side note - I added 1 slivered chicken heart to each boy's meal (excluding Pogo) and Mischief ate it all! OH CRAP, I just realized I gave some to Bandit as well Well, if he has a reaction at least I'm off today.
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Post by Sherry on Mar 28, 2013 17:04:50 GMT -5
I think you'll have to use "tough love" again with those boys. They are such stubborn brats!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2013 22:54:28 GMT -5
Aighty, so to the newest update.....and I apologive in advance for the length, but it's been a while since I've written in. Just when I think I'm getting ahead Individually: Bandit - Still loving the rabbit NV but is also still only eating small chunks. To be honest, I'm kinda wanting to keep him mostly on the NV for now to make sure he gets and stays healthy for a while. Besides the fact that he was on soup for a bit over 6 months, as sick as he's been I feel his body needs all the nutrition it can get at the moment. Pogo - Still a brat and will ONLY eat the NV. Still spits and gags when I try to feed him anything other than his beloved soup. I have 3 other very irritating and stubborn brats, but I think they would eventually be able to be fully switched. Pogo, however, I don't think will ever actually go fully raw. Have you had ferrets like this - that simply refuse to go full raw past the soup stage? Mischief - Again, back to square one in the soup stage. He will hold out for all eternity for straight soup sans the chunks. I swear, I've seen him shrink before my eyes before even thinking about eating another chunk. But this isn't the real problem. Of course when he ended up getting the infected lump on his leg, he wasn't feeling or acting well, so to keep him going we gave him soup. Now, he is doing a bit better, but be DAMNED if he will eat anything other than soup. And heaven forbid I try the necks and organs with him, HA. Tak - Since he sees his brothers getting all the soup, he has stopped eating his chunks. Granted, I'll add a tiny amount of NV onto his chunks to make him think he's getting soup, but ultimately he stops eating. I leave the bowl out and if he's hungry enough he'll munch on the chunks, but not always. I try to feed them seperately to eliminate the jealousy, but he knows and he searchs them all out to eat their soup. I gotta say though, Tak weighs A TON. I haven't weighed him recently but MAN is he ever heavy. He's got to be a solid 4lbs or more. POOPS - since starting the NV the boys have all had better poop, different but better for the most part. Gotta say though, NV poops have an entirely different smell then anything else I've encountered. It's not as horrible as some poops, but it's odd and not very pleasant. Also, since starting the NV my boys have been back to peeing A TON!!! I have to change out their litter box and their puppy pads multiple times throughout the day now. I thought they would potty less (pee and poo) when eating raw. I know NV (CG) isn't exactly raw but they are pretty much pottying as much now as they did on kibble. Is this normal? NV/CG - So how long can a ferret live on CG no matter the brand? I'm not saying I want to go this route, but if Pogo (and maybe Bandit) never go fully raw will CG provide all the nutrition they need or will I have to supplement their diet with other things? Also, I'm currently buying Nature's Variety, but is there another brand out there that is better? I like the NV, I just don't know much about CG and wouldn't know which brand is best for overall health. More NV stuff - I'm trying out the new flavors/proteins on the boys, but it is slow going as all but Mischief won't touch anthing but the rabbit. Side note - For the past week I've been sick, but it's an odd sick. It came on suddenly one night, my symptoms being nausea, near-vomiting, diahrea (sp?), abdominal pain, with everything becoming worse after eating and at night. Since then I've been experiencing these same syptoms, but randomly, but my stomach is still sore and it hurts after I eat. I have ruled out several things, but was curious about one particular illness - helicobacter. I know ferts and humans can pass some illnesses, but is it possible for ferrets to give humans a heliocobacter infection? My symptoms are awful similar to the symptoms Pogo has been going thru with his heliocobacter problems lately (at least this is what we think is wrong with him). I didn't know if it was possible, but I was curious.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2013 14:31:18 GMT -5
So I've got another silly question...
Since Mischief has not been well we have been babying him and giving him more CG. Well, that is all he will eat now. But that isn't the question, this is - how much is too much food? Mischief eats over 5oz of the CG a day (and that is just because I limit him) and he STILL begs for more CONSTANTLY. I think if I just left a giant bowl of it out he would just eat until he popped. Granted, his seasons are off and he is in winter mode right now, but I really think he would eat himself sick if I gave him the chance. Should I really allow him to eat as much as he wants or do I need to limit his intake? I've heard of some ferrets actually having eating problems (eating too much) and becoming overweight, but how common is this really and what are the signs? Oh, and with this, he is also pooping very little. I would expect him to have huge poops constantly with as much as he eats, but they are infrequent and kinda skinny. But he acts normal and is eating too well.
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Post by Sherry on Apr 14, 2013 9:24:29 GMT -5
Sorry I missed your other post I didn't even see it. Next time I don't respond within a day- shoot me a message! Anyway- yes, they CAN stay on CR completely. It's fully balanced. They just need 3 different proteins minimum. They will need dental care, although not as much as they would have on kibble On any raw, poops do decrease, but peeing drastically increases Their bodies are fully hydrated on it. With Mischief and Tak you will likely have to start over with them unfortunately. With the tiny slivers, then the "spaghetti", etc. Yes, they can be stubborn And you've gone through more than most with these guys. As for amounts, except for Mischief who seems like he's going into winter mode, the amount they eat will decrease. Our Frodo who is 3 1/2 lb summer weight will start eating like a pig and go through about 6 oz a day of WHOLE MEATS. If he was strictly on CR or soup- it would be much, much more ;D When we first switched him, somehow he put away about 5-6oz PER MEAL ;D What I'd suggest with Mischief since he IS so hungry is to simply mix the thickened soup 1/2 and 1/2 with slivers and give him that. He can eat it or not. And he will Give him about 2oz of the mix to start. Then he gets some larger slivers(more like the meat spaghetti) left in until evening feeding, and another 2oz of the mix. Do the same with Tak. Bandit and Pogo can have their CR feedings twice a day as usual, but the slivers can be left with them as well. That way, there IS nothing else for anyone to steal. Work Mischief and Tak back up as you did before. You'll likely need to alternate the slivers including heart and liver every 3-4 day, and adding in a bit of bone meal as well for calcium. And just to give you a bit of hope- longest switch I know of(my mentor Jennifer did it) took a year for a perfectly healthy, if stubborn, ferret
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Post by Sherry on Apr 24, 2013 9:17:55 GMT -5
Updates?
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2013 1:48:10 GMT -5
OK, so I just lost a HUGE post and I'm too tired to rewrite it. I'll quickly summarize: I did a rundown of individual updates, all of which are mostly good. Everyone is doing pretty well right now, so we're pretty happy. Now, where I left off:
For the bad news:
I've been dreading this. So my BF has decided that he doesn't want to go full raw anymore. Part of his reason is selfish (actually, the larger portion), and part of it is because he feels this is best for now. For a while my BF wasn't feeding meat and only CG and then when I'd feed meat the boys wouldn't eat it. Now we've gotten to the point that they ONLY want CG. My BF and I have opposite schedules so there are times that he has to feed the boys, and if he won't do the raw, they won't do it for me. So, I've given in unfortunately. On the selfish side, my BF has a tough schedule and doesn't want to take the time it takes to do the raw. On the unselfish side, our boys have never been healthier and they have all been doing so well in many areas to include poopies, which is amazing for them. He feels the consistent, fully balanced CG has a big part to play with this. I can't fully blame him though as a couple of the boys had to go on CG for a while due to illness and have since not wanted to go back to raw, and since they weren't fully switched, we'd be starting all over. On the bright side, at least my BF has taken my advice and is trying to get the boys onto several different protein types of CG (rabbit, venison, lamb, duck). Unfortunately, because I do EVERYTHING around the house my BF never has to go out and buy the CG so the full extent of the high cost doesn't really affect him. We do share everything, but we don't really share money unless it is necessary.
All this being said, and I know I've asked this before, but can the boys stay on CG without adding anything to the mix? Do they need any supplements or vitamins or anything extra? Is there anything I should do or need to know about keeping ferts on CG indefinitely?
Also, on an up-note, I do plan on trying the full raw again, and I think my BF will be onboard again as long as he has the time, so we will be back on here for advice.
I wanted to write this sooner but I've been trying to get past the CG and wasn't sure where it was all going, then all the crazy happened and I havne't been on in forever. I feel bad that I've not written in sooner as I wanted to free up space for others to join the mentoring thread.
I am so sorry it has come to this and I want you to know that I really and truly appreciate all your help and advice. You have been great and my boys appreciate you too. They wouldn't be as healthy as they are if it wasn't for you and this wonderful site. I'm still going to be hanging around the forum, and I'm sure I'll still have lots of questions.
If you have any comments or suggestions or advice, please, feel free to hit me up anytime! Hopefully the crazy has calmed down a bit and I'll be on more for a while.
Thanks again! Heather
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Post by Sherry on May 3, 2013 8:42:23 GMT -5
As long as they are eating a minimum of three proteins, absolutely NO reason the can't stay on it What are they accepting now?
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2013 13:51:10 GMT -5
Mischief will eat rabbit, lamb, and venison with no problem. The other three will eat the rabbit and the lamb, though they won't eat just lamb as they only eat it mixed with the rabbit. Though, they are close to eating just lamb. For some reason those 3 don't like the venison, but I think once they eat the lamb out-right they will take to the venison more quickly (the lamb has venison in it and vice-versa). I just got the duck and haven't tried it yet. Once they are on each of these 4 then I plan on trying a beef and then chicken CG and see how Bandit does with it to make 6 proteins. And so on from there. I've no problem trying all the proteins as long as they don't show allergies. Once they get to liking all of them I plan on keeping a bag of as many as the freezer will allow and alternating them between meals. Right now we are using Nature's Variety as it is the easiest to find and has the most proteins readily available. Are there any other brands that are as good or better, or should we just stick with the NV?
I forgot to mention in the last post that you have provided me with so much information and knowledge that I'm confidant that I'll know what to do during our future switch back to full raw, and I so very much appreciate it! Also, in the interim, I still plan on trying new things with the boys like raw livers and hearts and gizzards and necks and such to try to keep them in the loop. I've still got a lot of each of these in my freezer too.
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Post by Sherry on May 5, 2013 22:29:24 GMT -5
Okay, I just need you to let me know when they are all taking three different proteins and we can get you graduated Even if they have to take it mixed with something else! Boris' IBD was so bad he could only tolerate up to 30% venison or elk mixed in with his lamb, but the important thing is he was STILL getting the benefit if three different proteins Start by simply mixing in a tiny amount of a new one, just a pinch. Then increase it from there.
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Post by Sherry on May 6, 2013 8:41:32 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2013 0:07:33 GMT -5
Thank you! I will look into this. The stores I've been getting my CG at might even have this, or at least can order it I'm sure!
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