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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2012 21:10:04 GMT -5
How is Tucker's appetite doing? Is he just losing muscle tone from inactivity? or is he losing weight in general? Is tucker grinding his teeth? How are his poops?
Slippery elm bark is good for coating the digestive tract from beginning to end. It coats everything with a thin layer that has a mucus-like texture. Anything that coats has a soothing effect, but it also inhibits nutrient absorption. It's Ok to use the slippery elm bark as long as tucker is not losing a bunch of weight.
The very best way to feed the elm bark is to give it about 1/2 - 1 hour before feeding a main meal....some ferrets will eat it in a bit of soup. Others may need to be syringe fed. Since stress is not a great thing for Tucker either, you can simply mix it in with this food if this will work.
Please let me kknow what's up with Tucker's Tummy, we may be able to use something different depending on his symptoms.
-jennifer
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Post by racheldaniels on Mar 14, 2012 16:29:49 GMT -5
Original weight (vet weight when diagnosed with insulinoma): 1580g My scale today (three weeks later): 1620g. Working on pictures. Will update this post when he emerges from his hidey hole beside the refrigerator... Today he's at ~1600g. Give or take a wiggle, leg, or tail.
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Post by racheldaniels on Mar 14, 2012 16:33:40 GMT -5
Tuck's appetite seems pretty decent and mostly consistent lately - 1.5-2 freeze-dried patties and kibble nibbles in between every day (still working on getting him to accept the wysong. it's slow). No grinding teeth and poops are small like I'd expect with freeze-dried, except when he's been eating more kibble and they're larger. But not discolored or runny.
So his weight seems to not be hugely off *yet*, and his appetite seems pretty good. He is still on carafate for now until I get the slippery elm figured out.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2012 22:14:22 GMT -5
Why has carafate been prescribed? for ulcers? Or other reasons?
Carafate is usually prescribed for ulcers, and it works better than slippery elm for ulcers. Here's the scoop... ....The carafate sticks to ulcers like a "bandage" - it does not coat the entire gut like slippery elm, so it does not tend to interfere with nutrient/calorie absorption like the slippery elm bark does.
The elm bark can help to restore bacteria in the stomach (the mucus-like coating provides habitat for bacteria, and it's soothing. So, elm bark can be good if coupled with probiotics.
So, just let me know what Tuckers symptoms are that makes him need the Tummy meds.
Try lightly crushing the kibble types and store the mixture together - the is will make it harder for Tucker to avoid the Wysong kibble. In the meantime, you can try some fresh raw if you feel like a bit of adventure! Either way, you've already made great improvements in Tucker's diet, and this is helping him stabilize. So, don't be discouraged. Tucker is doing awesome for an older ferret....the 1-year-olds are much easier to switch, so you need to give yourself and Tucker A LOT of credit for coming this far - and you're seeing benefits from this improvement already!
-jennifer
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Post by racheldaniels on Mar 15, 2012 12:50:53 GMT -5
We started on the carafate and pepcid when we first started the pred. At the doubled dose, his appetite started to really decrease and I spent a lot of time spoon feeding him and coaxing him to eat. So! We added those drugs to help his tummy and his appetite picked right up again. We've tapered him off the pepcid and will try moving him to the slippery elm to get rid of the carafate. The Wysong is partially crushed currently... I get some weird looks for having ferret kibble in my mortar and pestle..
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2012 23:03:44 GMT -5
OK, just wanted to make sure nothing is going on right now with the Tummy. High does of pred can be difficult onthe tummy- small doses of pred can actually stimulate appetite.
If Tucker has loose and/or seedy stool, which is common in older ferrets, I would recommend panreatic enzymes, such as pancreatin. Just let me no if that's the case - we can discuss details on how to best do use this if you think this is may be helpful.
-jennifer
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Post by racheldaniels on Mar 16, 2012 11:47:48 GMT -5
So far his stools seem normal consistency, so I think we're good on that for now.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2012 21:36:16 GMT -5
OK, if all is well, then I recommend simply following doctor's orders on meds....he may no longer need any meds.
It's best to keep Tucker absorbing as much nutrition as he can unless he needs the meds/slippery elm bark for a reason.
Whenever you're ready, please feel free to mix a little raw fresh meat in with the freeze-dried....I recommend starting out by mixing a tiny amount of this up - more like a treat. if you mix up a bunch and Tucker does not like it, you may end up with quite a bit of waste $$$. start with snack-sized moistened bites with mostly freeze-dried and tiny amounts of finely chopped meat.
-jennifer
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Post by racheldaniels on Mar 17, 2012 0:21:27 GMT -5
I've secured some frozen ground - primal had free samples at the same local store that I've been getting freeze-dried, so... we'll start that experiment this weekend.
He's been eating the small amounts of wysong crushed with the other kibble. I think a lot of the avoidance was how hard the bits are compared to the other. Crushing seemed to help him chew a bit better. I'll start gradually increasing the amount he gets over the course of next week. Probably won't get far since he's really a freeze-dried fiend now..
Tuck's feeling pretty good tonight. Hanging out on the bed and snagging socked feet as they go past his sharking-point under the covers.
also this weekend: searching for a dental scaler. If I can't find one, then I'll order from foster and smith.
I've also ordered slippery elm pills to have on hand. I'm a big fan of keeping the medications simple, so the fewer, the better. The good news is that this vet was very happy when I told her about the diet changes I've been making with him. She thinks it's a fantastic plan.
Tuck is definitely changing a bit. Softer fur (but then he's also being stroked and held a lot!), but also the smell. He's sweeter-smelling and his ears aren't producing nearly the same crud that he used to get that would be a bit funky.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2012 13:22:43 GMT -5
Awesome news!!!! And with the softer fur, less smell, feeling good (carpet sharking again!!!)....well, Tucker is starting to benefit from the diet change. This means he's absorbing and using nutrients well - a very good sign. I'm excited that you've been able to get some commercial fresh raw. It's the way to go with older ferts that have some health issues. And, as previously stated, we ultimately may be able yo get tucker eating the freeze-dried raw in DRY form between fresh raw meals. Yes, moistened food is a bit more natural, but I never moisten the freeze-dried raw since I leave it out for several days when I travel. The problem with moist food that, once it starts to dry out, most ferrets will not touch it. A ferret with insulinoma does best when nibbling all day long - the Freeze-dried raw can fill this need, and it's more nutritious than kibble because it's not high-heat processed. You may want to add fish oil supplements if you're not already using it. please let me know if you'd like any info on the fish oil. Keep up the good work, and remember, start slowly with the fresh raw - you can put tiny amounts in with the moistened freeze-dried raw. This is all very exciting news -jennifer
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Post by racheldaniels on Mar 18, 2012 6:34:29 GMT -5
I'd love more info on the fish oil!
Today was the first day for the raw. I put a pinch of pheasant in with his regular morning food and it's disappeared with the rest of the duck-duck-goose.
He still has some dried sprinkled on his kibble. When I made another mix with his regular evo/zupreme and the wysong, I also ground up some freeze-dried venison and tossed in more of the stella and chewys. It's been sealed together for a day. Hopefully he'll accept this mixture...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2012 18:52:47 GMT -5
A lot of people on this forum give their ferrets fish oil (this is the fish body oil - not cod liver oil) fish oil makes the coat very soft, and the omega 3's have anti-inflammatory properties.
If you use fish oil that are not processed to have the toxins removed, the salmon oil or oils from small marine fish (sardine/anchovy etc.) tend to have less pollutants (mercury, PCB's...) A lot of people give the Grizzly salmon oil, which comes in a bottle with a pump-type of top for easy dispensing.
Capsules (gel caps) are technically better than bottled oils because they capsule keep the oil fresher - no exposure to air, which affects (degrades) the quality of the oil. But again, a lot of people report good results with the bottled oils as well.
The oil can be used to coat food, mixed in soups, etc.
I experimented with different flax seed il and alternated with the fish oil. I concluded that the fish oil work much better than flax seeed oil. I later learne that the flax seed oild provide omeg 3's in the form of ALA, which ferrets cannot break down to utilize the Omega 3's.
-jennifer
I give my ferrets the following: Thorne Research Super EPA. I use 4 drops per ferret twice a day. The SUper EPA is processed such that the toxins have been removed.
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Post by racheldaniels on Mar 21, 2012 8:21:36 GMT -5
Thanks for the fish oil information. Have you seen the recent(ish) research about krill oil perhaps being better?
OH! And some HUGE progress this week and especially this morning! Tuckerman's been happily accepting the moistened freeze-dried duckduckgoose mixed with the frozen primal. We've tried the pheasant and turkey so far without any quibbles. He gobbles! He's been eating kibble with partially-crushed wysong and finely ground venison freeze-dried, though he still really prefers the freeze-dried.
AND! This MORNING! We were staring at each other - him giving me the evil death glare post-meds and me thinking he really should get some sort of treat... so I offered him some shreds of dried duck-duck-goose and he happily munched away! YAY! He ended up with a piece slightly too large, so he dragged it off under the bed for nomming on without me watching, but... YAY!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2012 8:54:28 GMT -5
Hi Rachel,
I'm glad all is going REALLY well. Krill oil is supposed to be very good stuff. My only concern with krill oil is that you need to get it from a reliable source. There was a huge demand for the stuff, and some companies were diluting their product and/or coloring fish oil to keep up with demand. You also need to make sure the stuff is coming from clean waters.
I looked, and Thorne Research has a krill oil product. I do trust Thorne, so you may want to check into their krill product. The reason I trust Thorne it they test their own product for consistency and quality - and the also have their product tested by an independent lab. I'm not aware of any other supplement company that does this. Thorne is used by quite a few vets/doctors. Yes, their products are NOT cheap, but you KNOW you're buying quality. That's one of the big things about supplements - they're not regulated. But regulation would jack up the cost. The double-edged sword!
-jennifer
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Post by racheldaniels on Mar 22, 2012 19:58:50 GMT -5
I'll check out the Thorne product. I've ordered the slippery elm bark, but it hasn't come in yet.
So, with the freeze-dried duck-duck-goose: his whiskers get in the way. The poor thing goes whiskers-forward to sniff, and punts the fly-away fibers away from his mouth. If I can get him to lick pieces by holding them for him, he can get them in his mouth, but we're still coordinating whisker-eye-mouth.
He's wild lately. He just ran by dooking after my husband. I didn't know making dinner was such an adventure tonight! Also stood up on his hind end for an n-bone treat.. a rare goodie for him.
We're trying a new raw frozen meal now... he's quite happy with all of the poultry mixes that he's gotten. I'm afraid of the beef or fish since he's never had an interest in them. Teeny bits, I suppose..
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