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Post by racheldaniels on Feb 28, 2012 9:05:53 GMT -5
Having some trouble getting images to show up, but I'll work on it.
Update for today: he seemed pretty quiet last night, but got up and ate and ate and ATE. Some kibble (wysong mixed in, didn't check if he'd sorted through the kibble mixture) at ~3:30am, then let me offer him just under a tablespoon of his old soup mixed with a tablespoon of the freeze-dried in water. Hoovered! He still looked hungry after his carafate, so I made up a thick sludge of the freeze-dried only with a dribble of olive oil and some non-watered freeze-dried sprinkled on top. That disappeared, too. I'm not sure where he put it...
Will try to get an updated weight on him soon.
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Post by racheldaniels on Mar 3, 2012 9:35:20 GMT -5
We're up to eating almost a whole round of Stella and Chewy's in the morning, and finishing it up plus some more in the evening. Still won't eat it if it's too try, but we're working the 'thick sludge' consistency now, still with a few pieces of dry on top. Still really likes it more than his kibble.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2012 15:34:39 GMT -5
Hi,
I owe you an apology - some things have not been refreshing correctly when I'm accessing this forum.....so, I'm catching up.
Even if, for between meal munching, all Tucker eats is starchless kibble with a little freeze-dried, it's much better than having him eat starchy stuff.
Since Tucker likes the freeze-dried partially wet, and the consistency is fairly dry, you can try offering a little raw meat (finely chopped) mixed into the freeze-dried raw. Don't mix up a bunch of thins in case he decides it's weird! Just offer him a little bite from the fingers. chicken meat works well, dark meat, such as thigh, is more nutritious and tastier than he lighter meat (breast meat). If you cook up some meat for yourself, get a little bit of raw meat from whatever you're planning to cook before it gets seasoned or cooked. It's a good way to start introducing a little bit of meat at a time without wasting a bunch of meat.
Because Tucker has insulinoma, we need to keep him eating and go really slow. So far, you are doing fantastic with him.
Do you have him on prednisolone instead of prednisone yet? He really needs the prenisolone. He may not be able to get the full effects from prednisone, which is really HARD on the liver. Steroids contribute to hepatic lipidosis (fatty liver disease), which frets develop really easily - even without steroids.
What dose of prednisolone is he getting now? and is he stable on it? If he is not stabilizing on predisolone, diazoxide can be helpful. There are also some supplements that may help him. We just need to get him on the right version of pred and see where he is at. Then we can perhaps work on getting his pred dosasge down a bit by eliminating all starchy food and dding some supplements.
-jennifer
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Post by racheldaniels on Mar 3, 2012 19:44:51 GMT -5
He's been on prednisolone for a week now, and scheduled for another glucose check Monday afternoon. He's definitely brighter on it, but HATES the taste (Pediapred). I can't blame him. I was a vile child with the artificial cherry and bubblegum flavors. I don't want to say it out loud, but it looks like the dry freeze-dried in his kibble is disappearing faster than the kibble.. Shh! I'm keeping an eye on it. Oh! Pictures! From a week ago when we were out of town (first started prednisolone) And yesterday:
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2012 1:59:13 GMT -5
AAAWWWWWW.....What a cute little boy!!!!! He's so adorable - I just want to pick him up and squeeze him til he squeaks!!!! Glad to hear that Tucker is picking up! That's good news - he'll get used to the pediapred over time. The freeze-dried raw is healthier than the kibble. My kids get two fresh raw meals a day with freeze-dried raw available for snacking. I know that the freeze-dried raw gets expensive - a combo of free-dried and kibble (epigen-90 for ferrets) will get him off the starch. Eventually, it will be cheaper to transition tucker's wet meals to fresh raw (meat, bone, organ). Then you can phase out the kibble without going broke. if you want t use little tidbts of fresh raw meat from your human foo 9unsiced, of course, its a good way to introduce a little fresh meat in with the mush he's eating. One hing i do recommend with insuulinomic ferrets is this, if you find that Tucker is accepting the tidbits of fresh in the mush, you may want to look into frozen commercial raw diets. The problem with doing raw meaty bones is that ferrets require a mix of flesh, organs and bone. Ferret can take quite a bit of time to accet eating all these things. UNttil the ferret is fully transitioned, the diet will be a bit unbalanced for a while since it takes most older ferrets quite a bit of time to accept organs an bones. For healthy ferrets, the imbalance is not a problem. For insulinomics, the imbalance can be risky. Stella and chewies and nature's variety are good options for frozen raw diets that are balanced. What brands of frozen raw can you get locally? Jennifer
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Post by racheldaniels on Mar 4, 2012 8:04:47 GMT -5
locally, I know I have access to NV frozen and Primal. There're a BUNCH of teeny little boutique stores around that I can check out too, I think.
I always freak out on those mornings where he's a bit slower to get up and moving. It's winter here and he's always liked to stay warm, but it means more now. He's eating the same amount, just not hanging around to watch like usual. We'll see what the glucometer says tomorrow.
Is it hard to take readings at home? I wonder if that might not be a good thing to do between vet checks while we're trying to get him stabilized..
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2012 19:10:25 GMT -5
A LOT of people test glucose at home. I have never done this since it has been MANY years since I had my insulinoma boy, and he was pretty stable. On days were he may have seemed a little off, and I had to work, my vet would take both boys for the day - never charged me a penny for any of it! Check in the health section under the stickied posts - there's even a older for insulinoma - there ma be something there. If not, post the question on either this form or Search/post on the FHL. If the frozen raw fits your budget, its a good want to go for insulinomics. You an always add fresh raw meat/organ/bone, but since older ferrets are typically resistant to eating bones and organs, I would work on the two meals of frozen raw per day plus free feeding of freeze-dried (starch free kibble is also OK if the costs are too high.) Ideally a ferret should be eating 3 or more different meat sources, such as chicken, lamb, pork, beef, turkey, etc. It's oK to start out with one type of frozen raw diet to get things going. The freeze-dried raw can provide variety as well. Let's say the kibble is primarily chicken. You may want to feed freeze-dried lamb, and frozen venison. Ideally, rotating all type of foods from different meat sources is best. I also like to mix manufacturers - I use a lot of Nature's variety, Stella and chewie's, and wysong - it's what I can get! You know that each manufacturer will have it's own strengths and weaknesses. Another thing that you may want to consider is the use of supplements to enhance insulin receptor capability. The following products, which are rcommended by my holistic vet, have been reported to help some insulinomic ferrets: 1. Diabenil (Thorne Research) 2. Vanoxyl 25 (Thorne Reseach) Vanadyl sulfate/Vanadium Info: www.wellvet.com/insulinomaferret.htmlA friend of mine had a ferret that did really well with the addition of dabenil as a supplement. I have never used either of these since I have not had an insulinoma ferret or many years. he supplements are not cheap, and they may or may not work. I will say that all the things my holistic vet has recommended have been really, really good. -jennifer
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Post by racheldaniels on Mar 5, 2012 11:02:00 GMT -5
Fingers crossed for the glucose check this afternoon!
I was in the local pet store this weekend and got brave enough to open their freezers. Primal, Nature Variety, and Stella and Chewy. Lots of varieties, but OH I wish they had smaller sizes for sampling!
Tuck's decided that he loves the moistened freeze-dried so very very much that he's tapering off the kibble. *sigh* I can still hear him crunching it at times, but I think that he doesn't like how hard it is compared to the other options he's got. Another thing on my list is trying to improve the condition of his teeth - there's a fair bit of tarter built up on one part of his jaw.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2012 22:26:40 GMT -5
the freeze-dried raw fed dry helps with the teeth a biit. I scale my ferrets' teeth periodically with a dental tool. getting off of kibble completely really helped my kids' teeth.
If you try to scale his teeth, the best way to do this is to NOT try to clean everything at once. Do a little bit every couple of days and keep the sessions short.
The Nature's Variety does have sample sizes.....check around - you can probably do this over the phone. and some places might be willing to bring in the sample sizes.
I'm hoping the glucose test went well.
-jennifer
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Post by racheldaniels on Mar 6, 2012 10:20:07 GMT -5
Glucose 57! Huge improvement over 32 last time. The vet thinks this is an acceptable place to stabilize him, with a recheck next month. Especially since he's gotten quite feisty about fighting the vet techs now.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2012 23:52:29 GMT -5
That's GREAT news - getting rid of all starch and getting him on the prednisolone (the correct medicine!!!) both probably helped. I'm not sure ferrets can process regular predisone all tht well - let alone aht it does to their livers!!! Have you tried any tidbits of raw meats yet? Let me know about your next feeding experiment (raw meat tidbits? commercial frozen raw? dry freeze-dried raw?) You're making excellent progress, and Tucker s doing better - that's awesome I've been reviewing ideas in my head - I'm thinking that enzymes should help keep teeth cleaner......bromelain (from pineapple) might help keep buildup of plaque on the teeth. There's anther product that's helpful - you put it in the drinking water - cannot remember the name - it's called "oxy"something. I'll look into this for you. -jennifer
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2012 8:44:43 GMT -5
The product is called Oxyfresh. It takes a LONG time to break down any build-up, so if you can clean tuck's teeth (scale them with a dental tool (even a litle bit), you'll see results faster.
Of course, this will work better on some ferrets than others. Just like people, some ferts will tend to develop more problems.
While I do know several people who use this on ferrets with no issues (and I've never heard of anyone having an issue with this), here are two things you'll need to watch for: 1. water consumption continues at a normal rate (taste smell does no affect water consumption) 2. Tummy upset does not occur.
They make small bottles (4 oz.) some vets carry this product, or I'm sure you can get it online.
Sherrylynne also recommended rubbig teeth with a bit of bone meal paste, which will also add a little calcium to the diet. finely ground/powdered eggshell, which can be made in a small grinder/food processor would do the same thing.
-jennifer
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Post by racheldaniels on Mar 7, 2012 14:42:41 GMT -5
I've also had Oral guard gel recommended too... do you have a suggestion for a scaler? Better to get a pet one, or human? Particular shape?
I haven't gotten a chance to try anything raw yet. Just haven't been cooking meat lately! Will update when we get a chance to play with that a bit. He's still tucking away on 1-2 patties of freezer-dried a day.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2012 21:50:49 GMT -5
For the oral gels and oxyfresh suff, just make sure you get pet products and NOT people products - so often, people products have artificial sweeteners that are deadly for pets. I use something very similar to this.... (cat dental scaler) www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3508Sounds like everything is going really well. I'm glad he's into eating, and the meds are working better. -jennifer
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Post by racheldaniels on Mar 12, 2012 11:22:34 GMT -5
I've been bumming a bit this weekend noticing how much muscle tone Tuck's been losing. It's not a surprise, really, since he's just not as active as he was when our other ferret was around, but it does make me very sad.
I've called around and found one store that offers a Primal sampler pack. I might swing by and pick that up this week.. Also getting prednisolone compounded in chicken flavor so he's not as traumatized with that dosage. Cherry remains poison!
Will check on the scaler this week. Also looking into the slippery elm bark... would you put that in a syringe, or try to mix it with the food?
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