How much wholeprey?

[Deleted]

I recently switched to wholeprey with Winston, and while he's taking to it great; he gets really excited about meals and spends half his out of cage time trying to sneak it past me to stash around the room, he doesn't seem to eat much compared to what I've read others do..

I'm certainly not complaining, it's making him very cheap to feed I'm just concerned he's perhaps not eating enough. He's not a small boy, about 4lbs last time I checked. When he was on raw he had a fairly large appetite and would typically eat some organ and minced meat soupies in a morning and a whole chicken wing in an evening.
He got half an adult quail the other day, and it lasted him 2 full days. A single large mouse has lasted him an entire day, with a little left over the next morning. Even day old chicks that I used to feed as treats, he would devour in one sitting, if I feed as a treat/top up when he finishes his minced mixes he'll eat half of and then come back for the rest later.

Is he just not a big eater in the summer? Needing less food now that he's on wholeprey and getting all the right nutrients? Or do you think there's something else going on, maybe struggling to eat wholeprey (I know if I don't cut in to it for him, even with mice, he struggles to break the skin)?

I haven't noticed him losing weight, at least not abnormal amounts for coming in to the summer, and he's still pooping fine and full of energy, so I'm pretty sure he's fine. It just struck me as odd when I read about small girls eating 2 mice in one meal etc.

[Heather]

That's one of the problems with changing a diet in the middle of the spring season you just don't know if it's the diet or there's something wrong. I'm going to guess he's in summer mode. My guys cut their food intake by half (roughly). Every year, they scare the crap out of me because they will suddenly stop eating. They don't, they cut back so badly that it appears that they stop. During this time they usually start to loose weight which doesn't help either. One of these years I really should start to document the amounts of food they're eating and not eating so that I don't get a spring shock.
How much your boy will eat will be up to him. If he appears to be healthy, happy, hydrated and isn't turning into a pack of bones overnight I would think you're probably dealing with seasonal issues. Watch hydration and stools. If everything is ok, then you're wee boy is probably just cutting back. If you're concerned or there appears to be an issue, lethargy, poor stools then definitely take him to the vet to be checked out. I figure around Aug sometime, that one large mouse will become 3
ciao

[Deleted]

Yes, they do eat smaller amounts in the summer than they do in winter. Don't panic, especially when they get lean and really weaselly looking. AS long as they are fleshed out across the backbone ( no ridge), and their hip bones aren't really peaked looking and they remain thick through the neck and shoulders - they are at a good summer weight. You may feel an impression of ribs, but if it doesn't feel like you are bumping over a xylophone they are in decent flesh. Muscles should be easily felt and plump, palpation of the limbs shouldn't feel like your fingers touch with just a thin piece of felt between them.

When a kibble fed ferret first ventures in to raw, typically its like: "eww, do I GOTTA eat this? It smells funny and feels weird! Oh don't let it touch my lips! oh YUCK! It's on my whiskers!" Then you can almost see them thinking hat, hey, this ain't so bad after all. Then that carnivore kicks in and it's, " HEY! That's MINE! and That's MINE TOO!"

When the carnivore kicks in, they'll eat like they've never eaten before and they'll put away amounts of food you wonder how they have room for! Eventually they level off when their body's missing nutrients have been replaced.

Younger ferrets of course eat much more than an adult, so take this into account - as he gets older his nutritional NEEDS aren't as demanding as when he is a growing youngster.

Whole prey is exactly that - wholly nutritious - the whole prey is packed with more nutrients and these are AVAILABLE, DIGESTIBLE nutrients so once their base nutrient levels have been met they'll back off their intake.

That being said, I'm curious about his need(?) to have you open the whole prey for him. Was he a kibble cruncher or cage biter to the point that his teeth points are blunted? Is it physically impossible for him to puncture the mouse hide? When he does eat the whole prey (I am assuming mice and chicks here) does he eat the entire animal or do you find the hide stripped out and left behind?

the hide(skin) itself is digestible but covered with indigestible fur and feathers; although indigestible they still benefit the ferret's intestinal tract because the fur and feathers will wrap around bone shards, claws, nails and beaks that "COULD" damage the intestinal walls.

When you are opening the prey are you literally cutting it into pieces or simply slashing through parts of the hide to expose the flesh inside?

If you can, establish a feeding den or zone with hiding boxes so he can fulfill his need to stash his prizes but you can locate any leftovers later. With multiple ferrets it can be hard to figure out who is eating what unless you watch them constantly. Which is one reason why I try to weigh them weekly and chart it on a spread sheet. Their weight can very a few ounces in either direction - depends on whether they just filled their belly or not, but a persistent downward trend coupled with lethargy or stand offishness requires closer monitoring.

I have some that eat just heads, some that don't eat heads, some that don't eat tails or paws and some that start with the tails! Some like the prey fresh, others prefer slightly aged.

As long as everyone stays at a decent weight and their activity level is good, I don't worry. While he is eating whole prey and whole prey offers the complete package - I still would encourage you to feed raw meaty bones of a wide variety of livestock, encourage consumption of various insects and invertebrates, offer freeze dried and air dried meats, eggs, raw fish, organ meats, various fat sources (dairy and animal) and a smattering of dairy ( heavy cream, plain yogurt, mild cheeses). This is to ensure his diet is well rounded as well as to prevent him from getting "tunnel vision" about what he will or won't eat.

Variety is the spice of life after all and if they never know what's going to be on the dinner plate - they stay curious and they don't get bored.

Cheers,
Kim

[Deleted]

I got him at 11 weeks, at which point I switched him straight to raw, and he's eaten chicken wings and pork ribs along with various minced meat and soupies since the day I brought him home. He's now about 7 months.
He's never been much of a cage biter, I have him in a hutch so it's mostly wood and the wire is fine and gets between his teeth if he tries to bite, so he doesn't try.

He has no trouble with chicks. But mice, rats and quail he won't eat until I cut in to them. He plays with them and tries chewing on them, but never gets in to them. I try playing with the mice with him to get him to bite down and pull, but it doesn't tear the skin. I put a cut straight through the middle so it opens up in half, and then he'll eat the lot, fur (or feather), feet, head and all. I'm sure of this, as he does have a feeding den, and he's a solo fuzz. He just likes to move stashes from the den to behind the sofa when he thinks I'm not watching..
He's always been a very VERY gentle boy, never even leaves a mark when play fighting and chewing on my hands.. I wonder if he just doesn't bite down hard enough until he sees the flesh and decides it's definitely food.
I also think he may have a slight opposition to the fur. He seems to pick at what's inside and not eat much, but quickly devours the lot if I put a drizzle of oil over it. He's much less reluctant with the quail, I suppose because he's used to feather from the chicks which he's had as treats since day one.

I guess it's just a combination of him reaching fully-grown, coming in to summer mode, and being on a better diet. He definitely still seems healthy, so I won't worry about it. Thank you both for your input.


Oh, and I do try to keep him varied – he has 6 different main proteins; quail, rat, mouse, ground chicken (necks, backs and organs), ground duck (necks backs and organs), and ground rabbit (whole carcass and organs), plus occasional day old chicks, occasional eggs, any bugs he snatches up (he's like a ninja when he wants a passing fly.. ) and occasional meat scraps if I'm cooking with something different.

[goingpostal]

That sounds a little low compared to mine, they do eat less in summer, my two are down to eating about 3 mice between them in 24 hours or half a quail. They are getting soupies 2x a day as well though and that's probably a couple ounces total. Is he eating more of certain items? I know mine will eat tiny amounts if it's something they dislike, like rat or beef and chow on their favoites like crazy. As long as his figure seems ok and not starved he's probably fine.