|
Post by gbrunz12 on Dec 2, 2011 9:09:43 GMT -5
Hello all, I am new to this forum and this is my first thread. I have two ferrets Rascal (3 ½) and Butterscotch (2 ½). At the beginning of September, I noticed Rascal starting to lose some hair. I brought her into the vet and told him of my concerns of adrenal disease and he said is was more than likely seasonal alopecia but to keep an eye on it. Within the past month, she has lost a significant amount of hair and about 0.6lbs in weight. I finally found a specialist in the area that was even more familiar with ferrets and she diagnosed Rascal with adrenal disease. We also did a blood and chemistry panel to make further investigate because of the weight loss. Her red blood cell count and liver enzymes for slightly elevated, but not of any major concern. She wanted to put her on Lupron, perform adrenal surgery, and get her on a course of meds. Rascal would not survive the surgery with the state she is in. I have also noticed her appetite began to decrease for the past couple of days. I told this to the vet and she gave me some ideas. I am in the process of incorporating Archetype-1 into their diet by mixing it with their previous 8 in 1. Now that the long background is over, here is my question. Does anyone have any suggestions of how I can get her to start eating again? Last night I made some food for her by poaching organic chicken and beef, and then blending it with Ferretone and water and feeding it to her. She wasn’t having it. She also wouldn’t eat the duck soup that I made. Any tricks or other food ideas? I really want to get her weight back up. My fiancé and I are willing to try anything. These aren’t our pets, these are our family. Thank you so much for your help.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2011 9:35:19 GMT -5
If I was you I would go back and get the Lupron shot, then look into getting her the Deslorelin implant to treat the adrenal instead of surgery. If you can find a local vet who does Deslorelin implants. There is a lot of information about them on this forum.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2011 9:37:48 GMT -5
Will she eat her regular food? Or is she refusing to eat everything? If she'll eat SOMETHING that reasonably nutritious, feed whatever she will eat to help get her back in track. Youcan then SLwlY modify this diet to add/change to a better diet.
THAT being said, it's not uncommonfor ferrets with issues to stop eating. Here are some tips: * try getting her to lick food from your finger. Someties a ferret will eat from your and but not fromthe bowl. * you may need to force feed with a syringe.
Does your ferret grind her teethe, paw at her mouth, drool? exhiti any signs of insulinoma/low blood sugar??? Low blood sugar, which is not uncommon along with adrenal, can cause nausea/lack of appetitie.
How are her stools Dark/tarry stools can cause ulcers (lack of appetite.
Sometimes prednisolone helps with appetite because it helps to stabilize blood sugars, and it can simply increase appetite. MElatonin, which helps a bit with adrenal disease can also help to stimulate appetite in some ferrets. You can try oral melatonin to see if this helps.
That being said, ferrets can live for a LONG time having to be hand fed. These ferrets typically have underlying issues (adrenal, insulinoma, IBD, etc.), but some manage to get along fine as long as they're bed fed.
-jennifer
|
|
|
Post by miamiferret2 on Dec 2, 2011 10:39:11 GMT -5
adrenal disease can cause gastrointestinal upset (actually, i have seen it every time with adrenal). buy a big feeding syringe at Petco or any other pet store. crumble the archetypal finely. if you feed kibble, soak the kibble in some warm water and mash it up. make a thick gravy with warm water. load up the syringe, scruff your ferret, stick the syringe in through the side of her mouth and point the syringe towards the roof of her mouth so she does not choke. you should feed her 20-30 cc's (ml's and cc's are the same thing. 1 teaspoon of food = 15 cc's) you should feed her 20-30 cc's of food every 4-6 hours. practice with the syringe first so that you don't flood her mouth with the food.
i would give oral melatonin each day (buy the 2 or 3 mg tablets). dose I would give is 2 or 3 mg's each day. it should be given about 7 hours after sunrise. but if you cannot do this, then take the doses and split them up between 2 doses in the morning and evening. walgreens or cvs sell melatonin in tablets. health/vitamin stores sell them too. you can dissolve the tablets very easily in 1 cc of water. scruff your ferret and give orally.
i don't do adrenal surgeries. the medications (lupron monthly injections or deslorelin implant which lasts about 6 months) are both sufficient to keep adrenal disease under control.
if it were me, i would not let the vet talk me into surgery. i like to double up on treatments with my adrenal ferrets. so i always get them the melatonin implant from melatek (which lasts 4 months) and then either lupron or deslorelin.
with the food situation, when all else fails you can load the syringe up with gerber or beechnut baby food. then mash up their regular food and mix it in with the baby food. i prefer the chicken with chicken brother or turkey with turkey broth from beechnut --both are good for interim feeding. but they are not nutritionally complete for ferrets so should only be used for interim feeding.
just in case, i would give some pepcid a/c as well. take 1 tablet (10 mg) and dissolve in 10 cc of water. give .25 cc every 12 hours. do this for about 3-4 days and see if you note improvement.
many questions:
* what do stools look like? any black tarry stools? "coffee ground" looking things in stool? or long black hair-like strings in the stools? (they look like thick black hairs but when you split them up they are gelatin like--this is digested blood usually) * any teeth grinding? basically this sounds as though your ferret is making a sandpapery sound with his mouth. * are her eyes watery? is the fur around her eyes wet? or stained orange ? (that orange tint is from tears/water eyes) * any drooling? any stumbling when he first wakes up? * do you believe that your ferret could have eaten something that she should not have? check her toys, etc. any rubber, foam, ear plugs, headphone foam, etc.? it could very well be that she has two things going on. definitely adrenal which needs to be addressed.
and jennifer is correct, she MUST be hand fed if she is not eating. these animals can go downhill in just one day.
as for the adrenal, I have had ferrets live 3+ years after being diagnosed with adrenal (and the ones that lived the longest had no surgery they were just treated with medications. either lupron or deslorelin + melatonin implants).
I suggest that you take your ferret to the vet and have him test her blood glucose levels. you should fast her for 4 hours for this. but if she is having drooling, stumbling, etc. then don't fast her.
|
|
|
Post by miamiferret2 on Dec 2, 2011 10:58:41 GMT -5
At the beginning of September, I noticed Rascal starting to lose some hair. I brought her into the vet and told him of my concerns of adrenal disease and he said is was more than likely seasonal alopecia but to keep an eye on it. Within the past month, she has lost a significant amount of hair and about 0.6lbs in weight. . I don't buy your vet's explanation. if i were in vegas, i'd put my money on adrenal. rascal is 3 and 1/2. that is usually when they start to show outward signs of adrenal. i have seen this TOO many times with my own ferrets. get her on melatonin today. i would do the max dose of 3 mg's per day. tell your vet that you want lupron started now. deslorelin would be ideal though bc then you don't have to take your ferret in to the vet every month for the lupron injection. and I would get the melatonin implant done every 4 months. that way you don't have to give oral melatonin (which does not work as good as the implant).
|
|
|
Post by gbrunz12 on Dec 2, 2011 11:52:27 GMT -5
I will look into the Deslorelin implant especially because I am not a big fan of surgery especially because she is a runt in the first place and now with her weight being so low it is out of the question.
She is nibbling on the food when we are home, but I am not sure when we are at work. I do notice some food missing when I return home. I know she is not eating as much as her sister is.
I tried feeding her via the syringe last night, and she kept shaking her head and spitting it out. I am going to keep trying that and just hand feeding her. I had a little success when I mixed some of her FerretVit (I know high sugar, but it got her to eat a little) with the food that I made. I will hand feed her for the rest of her life if needs be.
She does not grind her teeth, paw at her mouth, drool, or stumble from what I have noticed and I have been watching her like a hawk. I will continue to monitor for any of these.
She had one stool movement that looked significantly darker than the other and it was almost ribbony (I was thinking blockage) and she had one bowel movement of diarrhea but neither have happened since. Her stools are normal but smaller and fewer.
We have been giving her oral melatonin (from the fill from a Capsule) by mixing it in her food, FerretVite, or Ferretonin at about 1-3 mg / day. It just depends on how much we can get her to take in. I will try dissolving it in liquid and using the syringe.
The vet hasn’t gotten back to me for two days because I had some more questions about the Rx that they want to put her on for the elevated liver enzymes from her chemistry panel. We had the full blood and chemistry panel done. One of the meds was a pepcid, but they did not tell me how to make it. Now I know how and will start it immediately.
Her eyes are not watery nor are there aren’t any stains around her eyes. There as the potential that she ate part of her plastic tubing that I have going all around their room for them, but I was able to find the piece. We don’t allow rubberbands or anything of that sort in their room or any room they go in and I haven’t found any thing else that might have been ingested by her. She has started chewing on her blankets and toys, she isn’t playing with them just chewing on them. She is still extremely active. When we let them out of their room (a 4 x 8 closet with a small baby gait separating them from our bedroom) she runs around, wrestles, and explores for about an hour straight and then both of them go back to their room and nap.
Thank you for all the advise and help. It means so much to us.
|
|
|
Post by miamiferret2 on Dec 2, 2011 12:16:49 GMT -5
yeah when they are nauseous or having tummy troubles they shake their heads violently when you are trying to feed them. but you must be patient and persistent because she must eat adequate amounts of food. is she swallowing any pieces of her blanket?
did your vet x ray her?
|
|
|
Post by miamiferret2 on Dec 2, 2011 12:21:12 GMT -5
btw, the deslorelin implant (suprelorin 4.7 mg) is ordered from a company called Peptech in australia. he would have to email them to order it (Unless he carries it already--alot of u.s. ferret vets are using it now). if you can't get the deslorelin, at least start monthly lupron injections. sometimes it takes a while to get your hands on deslorelin.
|
|
|
Post by Heather on Dec 2, 2011 12:26:00 GMT -5
I would be tempted to do an xray or better a barium just to rule out a blockage. A floating blockage could present itself in this manner and would account for her lack of appetite. In this case, as she's started eating blankets and toys I would be tempted to follow this route as a just in case. You've mentioned that her stools are apparently normal at this time, so hopefully your wee one passed whatever was giving her that issue. I do not agree with your primary vet's diagnosis, this does indeed appear to be adrenal....unfortunately age has nothing to do with it anymore That being said, having treated a number of adrenal ferrets, a lack of appetite and the possibility of ulcers or stomach upsets are very real with this horrible disease. I would be very tempted to get the lupron (at least until you can get your hands on a des implant) to see if this provides her with some relief. I have seen increase in appetite within a few days with the lupron, the des takes a bit longer though the whole appetite thing seems to improve long before you will see any of the other symptoms start to diminish (it also helps them with the horrible itchies) I too, do not push the whole surgery thing, and opt for alternative remedies. I've had a huge degree of success with the des implant but am also aware that it's not the fastest remedy to aquire, hence the need to use lupron as an interrim remedy. There also seems to be a number of vets who are reluctant to go through with the paper work that is required at this time to get des implants. I've used melatonin as a primary treatment when the symptoms first appear but find it continues to work well as a support remedy even once the alternatives (lupron or des) are administered. As you're administering oral melatonin, you are administering it between 7 to 9 hours after sunrise? This is absolutely necessary to get this to work correctly...it is very time sensitive. If you cannot accomplish this, you will need to get a melatonin implant for your wee one to reap its benefits. I'm presently hand feeding 5 fuzzes that are special needs, sometimes it's the only way to make sure they get their nutritional requirements. Good luck, keep us posted. ciao
|
|
|
Post by miamiferret2 on Dec 2, 2011 12:35:52 GMT -5
She is still extremely active. When we let them out of their room (a 4 x 8 closet with a small baby gait separating them from our bedroom) she runs around, wrestles, and explores for about an hour straight and then both of them go back to their room and nap. that is always good! and kudos to you because only the most observant owners will notice what you are seeing. you KNOW that there is something wrong because you look at her poops, you monitor food intake, you check her blankets, etc. do you know how many owners don't do this? please keep us updated! we tend to worry about other people's ferrets just as if they were our own. i have already checked this thread several times today. LOL.
|
|
|
Post by gbrunz12 on Dec 2, 2011 13:24:22 GMT -5
The vet said the X-rays weren't necessary based off of palpation; however, if the problem persisted for 2 more weeks she wanted to take regular x-rays. I asked her about the Barium x-ray and she said that wasn't necessary. I bed to differ because in order to see what exactly is going on in the GI Tracy you need the barium. Otherwise, you can see minimal soft tissue on an x-ray unless there is a significant block.
|
|
|
Post by miamiferret2 on Dec 2, 2011 13:25:51 GMT -5
not all blockages can be detected by palpating. esp if in the stomach and floating foreign body. make sure you give her vaseline during shed season and pumpkin to prevent hairballs. a hairball alone can cause the problems you are seeing. some need to be surgically removed.
|
|
|
Post by gbrunz12 on Dec 2, 2011 13:28:13 GMT -5
Also, she didn't give me the specifics about the course of 4 medications she wanted to put her on (still waiting for that phone call back after we have called for the past two days) but they are for if there is a GI disease like IBS or and ulcer. I haven't seen much out there about this other than the pepsin mix. Thoughts?
|
|
|
Post by gbrunz12 on Dec 2, 2011 13:30:59 GMT -5
We give her ferret lax, but I can switch to Vaseline. Pumpkin?
|
|
|
Post by miamiferret2 on Dec 2, 2011 13:34:01 GMT -5
its probably carafate liquid and an antibiotic. probably flagyl. yuck. boy that will stress your ferret out. flagyl is disgusting. carafate liquid coats the stomach. it forms like a mesh and it protects the ulcer from the stomach acids, allowing it to heal. the pepcid a/c will neutralize the stomach acids so that they won't aggravate any existing ulcers.
do you know the names of those medications? when you find out come back and tell us what they are. you know, i'm kind of irked that she told you to use pepcid but did not tell you how to mix it or what amount to use, etc. your vet needs to give you precise instructions on medications. and i'm kind of irked that she hasn't called you back in 2 days. what kind of ferret vet is she? these are not like dogs. these animals are very small and 2 days can make a huge difference.
|
|