Feeding Den Frustrations

[Deleted]

So I am on my second attempt at getting Olivia and Sophie to use feeding dens. I had tried when we first switched to raw but they were very stubborn and refused to eat out of them, to the point where they weren't eating so I gave in.

However, this time, I am determined. They currently only have 1 level of the FN because Howie is on the top and still not quite off kibble yet (which the girls like to steal :. Well today was cleaning day and all I can say is YUCK. Their bedding has never smelled so bad from raw meat juices and I even found really old meat (like 3 or 4 days old) stuck to the bottom of their cuddle cup. Blech!

So I'd really like them to use a feeding den. Here's the one I currently have:



That's an old pic of it, it currently has tiny pieces of heart on it. But it's fairly large/deep, has about 7-8 shower hooks with meat hanging loosely on it and they can both easily fit in there, and can even pull the meat off the hooks if they really want.

But they refuse to eat it.

And I KNOW they are hungry because they've been out all day and only ate some freeze dried this morning.

So my question is... do I wait them out? Try to out-stubborn them? They'll go eat it eventually if they're hungry enough right?

Or if they refuse to eat all night (that will have been more than 12 hours without food), do I give in?

Do some ferrets just flat out refuse to eat meat off hooks?

Thanks

[Heather]

Considering that you have some health issues I would be cautious about forcing the issue for too long. Most of my guys do not like to have their meat tied down to a place, they want to drag it off to eat quietly in a corner. I can get them to eat in a feeding den but I can't get them to eat consistenly off a hook.
Have you thought about setting it up so that they can just eat in the box instead of having the meat tied down?
ciao

[Sherry]

Mine won't eat off the hooks either. But they will eat IN a den. Most of the time. Mr. Frodo has decided that he prefers to use the cuddle cup as a feeding den I still do find food hidden in the cage, though.

[Deleted]

I certainly do not know everything, but I will provide some history.

I was the one who ntroduced the concept of a feeding den a long tme ago on the old natural ferret feeding forum, which existed long before this site (and the original one) was even a concept.

i was involved with wildlife rehabilitation for years, and my specialty was working with the mammals. I noticed that the carnivores (mostly foxes and coyotes, but weasels as well) scattered when eating - they were VERY competitive with their feeding habits. That being said, there are a few key observations regarding wildlife that MAY hold true for many ferrets. I can at least tell you that these theories held true for MY 4 brats as babies....

When my kids were youngsters, they did NOT like the following:
1. eating out in the open (vulnerable to predators)
2. eating together (competition)
3. eating near a big stash of food (attracks predators)

The preferred eating scenario was as follows:
* food located outside the den.
* each ferret has his/her/own den
* feeding den offer a safe/concealed location (trash can on its side with a towel draped over the entrance for privacy)

I later learned that these observaritions and practices reflected thef eeding practices of the black-footed ferrets - the BFF's will typically drag prey to a den (often, they take over a prairie dog den ---> kill the pririe dog, feed on it in the den over the course of several days, and simply take over the den thereafter. (well, heck, they ARE member of the WEASEL family ;D)

Another thing......When I had time to mentor forum members, I was called in specifically for the toughest switches - LIKE SHERRYLYNNE'S BORIS!!!! (Actually, Boris was not all that tough to switch...he just required special attention ) Anway, one of the things that also seems to hold true is that ferrets are more likely to grab a smaller bit a food from a smaller sourcethat from a big pile.

If you go back to the old forum, you'll see that I recommend that small bits of food bel layed out on a flat small plate so a ferret can grab a small tidbit rather than havig to push their faces into a big bowl of food. Here's some wildlife background on this....
1. Most carnivores SHUT their eyes when they eat to protect them from bones, prey that may still be alive, etc.
2. Most carnivores do not stick their heads deeply into a carcass
3. Most carnivores prefer to tear a piece off the prey and eat away from the carcass. Hanging onto a carcass is dangerous for numerous reasons

Part of his is for safety from competition and predators....part of this is for hygienic reasons ---- blood and guts stick to fur like GLUE, and infection sets into the skin. Notice that the predators that DO stick their heads into the carcass are the vultures, which have NO feathers on the head and neck...they evolved this way to keep the bacterial problem under natural control.

SO once you start to understand some natural carnivore behaviors, you may see why some ferrets do not like walking into a meat locker to dine. Many ferrets will learn to accept such a feeding arrangement, but its not necessarily a preferred scenario.

You can probably train your ferrets to eat from a "meat locker" by starting with small bit of doo anchored in the feeding den. You'll probably need a couple of feeding dens to do this. Use the den mor like foraging cup, which is another technique I introduced for ferret years ago....small bits of food hidden around the environment may be much more readily accepted than larger amounts. Small tidbits are generally consumed on the spot - they can be quickly consumed without all the "risk" associated with eating/approaching large food sources.

Does this makesense?

-jennifer (This reminds me how much I miss mentoring )

[Sherry]

And we REALLY miss having you as a mentor And I'm going to copy/paste this post to the raw feeding board

[Deleted]

Olivia and Sophie would like to say thank you to Sherry, Heather and Jennifer, for convincing mommy for taking away those awful hooks, and giving them back their beloved brown paper baggies ;D

I suppose making ferrets eat off of little hooks in a designated feeding box did seem kind of silly after all ;D

Thank you for that wonderful and in-depth explanation Jennifer! That all makes perfect sense and explains why the girls prefer to each have their own brown paper bag (small, dark, secluded) and stash small amounts of meat to eat in them.

I have removed all the hooks from the plastic den and might see if I can get them to eat in the paper bags, inside of the plastic den so the juices don't leak everywhere. But I suppose worst comes to worst, mommy will just doing more laundry. ;D

I am hoping once I have them integrated with Howie, and maybe even get a 3rd level to the FN for more room (Howie is a big boy and will probably get even bigger on raw ;D) that I can have a whole level dedicated to feeding with no bedding to get smelly. Watch the food still end up in the hammocks

[Sherry]

Nov 29, 2011 23:08:50 GMT -5 @mustelidmusk said:

(Actually, Boris was not all that tough to switch...he just required special attention )

Special is right, stubborn little brat ;D

[Deleted]

Mine dont like meat on hooks. I don't use a den and they don't stash in the cage. They all eat from a shallow bowl. They prefer their meat chunked not whole. Try giving them less too, you must have a lot of waste.

[Deleted]

Nov 29, 2011 23:22:24 GMT -5 @weloveourweasels said:

Mine dont like meat on hooks. I don't use a den and they don't stash in the cage. They all eat from a shallow bowl. They prefer their meat chunked not whole. Try giving them less too, you must have a lot of waste.

That picture was from when they first switched to raw and were eating a TON ;D They eat less than half that amount now, and I only give enough so that there's a few pieces left over

[Deleted]

Yea they sure do eat a lot at first lol.

[goingpostal]

I'm glad my brats don't care, they would love to carry food off, but they've learned to eat off a hook fine. I tried dens but they'd just start pooping in there too.

[katt]

Just a thought. I've never used hooks, I just toss the meat in a dish (not sure why I still bother with a dish actually... ;D ) and put the dish in the den. They boys eat it just fine, though they certainly still drag the occasional piece off to stash elsewhere. Try box with no hooks. Also, don't give them their food. Sit outside of the cage (may be easiest if you do 1 ferret at a time, but I've done it with 2, they seem to alternate getting food and eating it) and hand each ferret a piece of meat (use small chunks). When they take it, they'll try to run off to eat it in a "safe" place (or they may not). Direct them towards the feeding den, or even put them in it. After they finish the treat, they'll come back for seconds: repeat. Eventually they should get the idea.

Another idea - try putting a paper bag IN the feeding den (it will help with cleanup lol). Then you could try to wean them off the bag and into Just the den.

A third option is that they don't like the den because it's exposed. I use a clear den also (so I can see when they are out of food lol) but generally solid colored dens work the best as they provide a nice dark, secure, den-like place for them to eat. Your paper bags are not transparent, so it makes sense that they would prefer them... Worth a shot!