|
Post by xclairex on Nov 18, 2011 13:30:34 GMT -5
Hey, I posted here a few weeks ago asking about micro ferrets.. I rescued a ferret from a guy who wasn't looking after it properly and he's TINY! I actually thought it was a kit at first- but he's not, he's 2 years old. Apparently they bread them to be small because they are better for rabbiting, they get down smaller holes etc... its just crazy if u ask me! We should never mess with genes and genetics. My vet told me that these stupid people do this, not realising that their organs still grow to full size and often become restricted etc... causing health problems!! It makes me annoyed!
|
|
|
Post by crazylady on Nov 18, 2011 14:00:55 GMT -5
Hi Micro ferrets first appeared by accident it was due to constant inbreeding eg a good worker was bred with another good worker and they produced excellent kits who were fantastic at the job ( these were not yet micros ) owner decided he wanted to keep the strain going for its hunting skills and simply bred brother to sister result a smaller ferret but who worked like parents and because it was smaller could get where larger ferrets couldnt ( eg up under tree roots where rabbits often sit ) again he wants to hang onto the line but how hummm he thinks I know put sister to brother yet again result your mini micro is born along with a lot of genetic problems ! I had had the odd micro type pop up in a litter not intentionally just an odd runt who is smaller than its siblings so they do happen occasionally even when not planned ( thankfully mine is fine ) problem is if it becomes a craze and every one wants one for the cute factor then the ferret gene pool suffers ( not so long ago the craze was silver and because people could get more money for a silver lines were in bred result blazes and wardenberges popped up ) there are always people out there who will jump on the money bandwagon if its wanted they will breed it regardless to the health of the animal unfortunately take care bye for now Bev
|
|
|
Post by joan on Nov 18, 2011 15:33:06 GMT -5
She is suggesting that because people (the big farms) are irresponsibly breeding for desired traits, we in turn keep our babies alive for much shorter time periods. It's not only the commercial breeders who are irresponsibly breeding for the desired traits. The privately bred ferrets have been, as well, since the pet public wanted/wants the fancy colors in preference to the sables and albinos. As a result, various genetic diseases and early deaths have skyrocketed with far too many not even making it to 6 years of age.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2011 15:53:12 GMT -5
just my opinion, They are cute and all, but why would you want a ferret that is SMALLER then normal ferrets! they already fit into very small areas! imagine that!
they are cute though. i don't think it is right to breed them that small though. poor things! they are doing it to ferrets! the same thing they did with dogs! Now ferrets are going to become an accessory and that is making me angry. i might as well stop typing before i say something to wrong...
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2011 16:50:20 GMT -5
Sheesh! I already love ferrets because they are like kittens forever (well, ONE reason I love them). If you want something that little, get a hamster!
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2011 17:05:10 GMT -5
+1 otterwoman! i agree completely!
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2011 17:19:08 GMT -5
Unfortunately, any time people get involved with breeding anything, something goes wrong because the desire to mold something into an "ideal" becomes more important than preserving the biological integrity of the species.....look at dog and cat breeds, for example. Each breed has its own set of problems.
-jennifer
|
|
|
Post by miamiferret2 on Nov 18, 2011 17:38:02 GMT -5
Yep. Breeding ruins everything. Boxers and cocker spaniels are tumor factories. Dobermans have a lot of heart issues. German shepherds have awful hips. Dalmations are train wrecks. It is so sad.
|
|
|
Post by Thérèse on Nov 19, 2011 5:27:32 GMT -5
Back in 2008 IFCA (International Ferret Congress of Australia) had it's first ferret health symposium. One of the presenters made reference to this guy (I think american) who had done a study of ferrets in the 80's and then done the same study 10 years later. In the first he found 1 case of adrenal and no insulinoma (or maybe the other way round) but the point is they were both rare. In the second study they had become the 2 biggest health problems in ferrets. In between the 2 studies there had been the boom in popularity of ferrets as pets and hence lots of changes (before while not on an ideal diet the ferrets were often fed things like mince as at least part of their diets and kept outside being something owned by farmers etc.), now as a popular pet they are indoor (no-one thought of having a ferret in an apartment years ago!)and fed commercially prepared things a lot and come from farms. Things are turning back a little as we learn more but there is still a long way to go.
I keep that idea in mind a lot when I am trying to decide what is the best care for my ferrets!
|
|
|
Post by Thérèse on Nov 19, 2011 5:28:51 GMT -5
PS I love sables the best, and boofs, so all there in breeding is for nought with me!
Same with dogs and cats...I love mongrels and moggies
|
|
|
Post by dook2dook on Nov 19, 2011 6:27:54 GMT -5
wow therese had no idea there was a Ferret Congress of Australia.
|
|
|
Post by Thérèse on Nov 19, 2011 8:51:58 GMT -5
There is, they held 2 Ferret Health Symposiums, in 08 and 09 but have heard nothing since, so don't know how it's currently going
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2011 9:22:46 GMT -5
All the breeding info is interest. My sister loves German Shepherds but would never buy an AKC one. Apparently, there are different breeding standards on critters in different countries, even, and some do a much better job.
You look at some creatures and can /see/ where the health problems come from in the standard.
What is a boof, btw?
Our family has never had a purebred cat or dog. Our beagle mix was the hardiest/smartest of the dogs (despite epilepsy--beagle problem). Even so, we've seen some weird barn cat genetics (our family had horses at one point, so the cats were "professional" pets): one cat born without a sternum (he became a house cat) and another two with serious allergies. Of course, cats and genes are ... well, cats can live with weird abnormalities other species can't. But I will stand with Joan, anecdotaly, it appears the more "white" on a cat, the less healthy they are (as a group). Little Timbit we lost this year was predominantly white. Her offbeat sister (who I love but is not quite ... right for a cat, lol) is also mostly white (yet both were excellent hunters??). Of course, I don't have the time or reason to research that to death with cats, it just comes up again and again (for the NOT faint of heart-try looking up genetic disorders for Paint horses---you cannot breed two of them together).
Weird things happen even far down the line when we control breeding for the wrong reasons.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2011 11:11:10 GMT -5
One thing people need to remember is that breeders do NOT have any feasible way to identify the presence of genetic defects prior to breeding....most genetic defects manifest themselves later in life - after the breedings have already take place. Moreover, with a compressed life span, a "desirable" hob can spread his genetics and wide within 2 years. If it turns out that this hob can pass a bad gene (and he himself may not even fall prey to the genetic problem since not all genes affect ever generation), many genetic lines will then carry and continue to pass on the bad gene.
All you can do to 100% ensure the bad gene is not passed any further is to stop breeding any offspring that come form the identified source. Fine. But it's just about impossible to identify the true source.
So, what happens, is responsible breeders try to not over breed any single line. But they want to pass on good genes as well. The only way to "fix a trait" is through line breeding. If you want to maintain/develop a specific trait, you breed from within the same genetic line without using relative that are "too closely related" and you don't breed within the same line too often.
When the gene pool is small to begin with, and when breeding focused upon achieving a standard, tings get funky in the genetic pool.
While it's easy to say, "just breed sables/albinos", this approach does not ensure "clean lines". A sable may not be any healthier than a DEW when the genetic pool is small because there is not much opportunity to out-cross with fresh bloodlines. The cleanest bloodlines will be those controlled by nature. While your polecat hybrid MAY be healthier (remember, no guarantees) , she will require a very experienced owner.
Breeding anything is VERY, VERY difficult. If I can remember correctly, the entire population of BFF's was re-started from a singe breeding pair. Only one known genetic alteration had been introduced to the BFF population at that time (2009???), but this minor change does not affect health. Amazing, but as Travis Livieri stated, every mating is scientifically "controlled" through a complete evaluation of all genes. This is not possible without a TON of funding and backing.
As long as the environment no longer controls survivability, the more issues will surface. This is even true with humans, although our genetic pool is not very tiny these days.
-jennifer
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2011 11:14:05 GMT -5
I was rather suggesting responsible breeders, not attacking private breeders generally. It is just fascinating to see, even in "Mixes" where issue crop up.
|
|