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Post by joan on Nov 4, 2011 12:49:55 GMT -5
Angoras have been discussed on this forum, as well as the Ferret Genetics group (a Yahoo group). Do a search on both groups for information about them. Unless you're willing to pay several hundred dollars for one and thousands of dollars to keep it alive for 4-5 years, I recommend against getting one.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2011 21:38:19 GMT -5
I will look into the thread on here for sure, then maybe venture on to the other group if I'm not convinced yet... Thanks for the info! I appreciate! I know nothing about breeding ferrets nor their genetics. I am content with only being a mom to pet-ferrets, no time to breed them... Hence why I know nothing of those issues  Thanks for letting me know!  PS: What did you mean Heather when you said the dark sables without black self background? Sandra, Lyla & Meeko |
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Post by Heather on Nov 4, 2011 23:04:05 GMT -5
We used to have a breeder from France who bred both selfs and angoras, I don't know if she posted in this site or not but if you go on the old site she's posted a lot of pics in the breeders section there. Here's a site that does the same. Once you start looking for the differences that you will be able to pick out the selfs. There are certain genetic structures that you will see in the selfs. One of the things most often noted is the dark black colour with a lack of mask...a mink type look. Sharp pointed face, eyes at the top of the skull (very similar to our waardenburg kids). Tinier eyes...beady eyes for the lack of a better word. Again very similar to a mink considering I was looking into mink eyes only the other day. Like the angora once you start to genetically modify an existing structure to amuse yourself then you create problems. Think about all the health issues that we're locating just associated with colours. Then, start manipulating colour, size and length of coat. It's a pattern for disaster. People started incorporating selfs into their breeding program when a demand for black ferrets started cropping up. It was an easy way to fill a demand unfortunately, genetic manipulation is never that simple. Now a lot of lines are discovering like when we bred for colours and markings that the health of the ferret suffers. Anyway, here's the site, there are some cute ferrets on there. Enjoy  freandacarballeira.tripod.com/hurones/id27.htmlciao |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2011 17:26:41 GMT -5
Well, this is good to know!  Does the Washington breeder have the Selfs in her black sables if she breeds any? Thanks for the website, I will check that out Sandra |
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Post by crazylady on Nov 5, 2011 18:18:40 GMT -5
Hi Smoogy I am an international ferret judge and have seen angoras and the black self all over the world and both come with problems over the years( I have been around since the angora appeared adn the self ) I have noticed in the angora lots of jaw deformities ( over shot/ undershot jaws ) some have nasal problems ( due to the hairs in the nose and the nasal passages which tends to result in respiratory problems ) they also do not have have good temperaments the black self is the same its temperament is not good ( they tend to be nippy and hyper ) a lot of black sables have the self mixed in ( for colour ) these are easily picked out due to small skull sizes ( a males head looks like a female ) and small beady eyes plus the undercoat is virtually non existent the coat type being very tight and short health issues have not surfaced yet due to the fact they haven't been around long enough! one thing I do know is in my travels all over the world if I am going to be bitten when judging it will be an angora or a self or a self mix that does it lol and boy do I have the battle scars to prove it lol take care bye for now
Bev
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2011 18:35:20 GMT -5
Hello Bev! Thanks for that! I would definitely want temperament over look. So then are you saying ALL Dark and Black sables are mixed with the selfs? or is it possible to have a Dark or Black sable without it being mixed with the selfs? In a perfect world,no pet would ever be sick and all would die from old age.... but... it's not the case  If you've been all over, have you heard of any good breeders in the Montana area? Or is this lady from Washington the closest to me at the moment? Thank y ou very much!  Sandra |
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Post by joan on Nov 5, 2011 19:04:10 GMT -5
The German black selfs are notorious among European breeders for their poor health, early deaths, and higher rates of lymphoma. I've seen pics of any number of ferrets which are supposed to be black selfs (or solids) which I consider to be black sables.
In the US, the black sables have a strong black mitt background and most of the problems associated with the fancy colors. It appears that hyperpigmentation may result in as many genetic problems as does hypopigmentation. Dark sables are not the same thing as black sables, and should not be confused with them.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2011 20:27:20 GMT -5
Dark sables are not the same thing as black sables, and should not be confused with them. Is there more to their difference than slight color? Do people mix them up easily? |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2011 22:13:29 GMT -5
the black self is the same its temperament is not good ( they tend to be nippy and hyper ) a lot of black sables have the self mixed in ( for colour ) these are easily picked out due to small skull sizes ( a males head looks like a female ) and small beady eyes plus the undercoat is virtually non existent the coat type being very tight and short health issues have not surfaced yet due to the fact they haven't been around long enough! That is really interesting to hear. I would consider my girl Dixie a dark sable, not a black sable, but she has a LOT of the characteristics you mention. I first just assumed personality differences, but maybe its a trend? She is pretty nippy, super hyper, though I kinda like her "rough play." Her head is rather small too, especially compared to Trixie who is very wide and bulldoggy. AND she does have a very tight coat. Here's a recent pic.  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2011 22:43:31 GMT -5
That is one pretty girl you got lol |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2011 0:00:17 GMT -5
Thank you! She's a little nightmare ;D
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Post by Heather on Nov 6, 2011 1:33:15 GMT -5
She is what I call a dark sable. Is she a breeder ferret? This is where the use of the self ferrets come in. The farms don't use them to my knowledge anyway. www.angoraferretry.nl/Mijn%20Fretten.htmIf this site loads properly, the first series of photos will show a self. Note the eye set, width of head. ciao |
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Post by Heather on Nov 6, 2011 1:36:06 GMT -5
Which it didn't  . If you go into the gallery you can click on the photo of the little black ferret. He shows the structure that one sees frequently with the selfs. ciao |
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Post by lorelei0922 on Nov 6, 2011 5:47:03 GMT -5
not all are from inbreeding certainly but its DEF something you need to consider and research before you buy!! my darkies that i'm breeding next year ( the litter that will be sold to those in the states) dont show those traits . and those traits dont always indicate that problem.. its simply a possiblity. here's some pics of my two...   |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2011 8:42:14 GMT -5
Ah, I see. No, she's a Marshall's. ;D
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