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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2011 20:12:58 GMT -5
Are you planning on feeding the mice live? That is the most humane way to cull those. For rats and guinea pigs, I would use cervical dislocation. I think it is just the most humane way, since the ferrets can't hunt those.
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Post by fuzzywozzie on Apr 13, 2011 16:04:21 GMT -5
Defo, but i'm looking to fed rabbit, rat and quail as my three main food sources. I will breed the rats and buy in the rabbit and quail. Along with this they will get as many different animals/meat as is available. With a couple of breeding tanks for mice which i would feed live to aid in enrichment.
I don't think you can but can you feed any other adult rodents live, and what would the cut off age for live feeding be with other rodents? Either in weeks or stages and animal
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Post by Sherry on Apr 13, 2011 22:17:31 GMT -5
Unfortunately, the only "safe" ones are mice. Even adult mice can give a few good bites, but most ferrets finish things before that. Anything else, only feed live if the eyes are still closed. From what I understand, even juvenile rats can get really nasty.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2011 1:55:30 GMT -5
My experience with whole prey feeding is that Ferrts and mice go together best. Seems their teeth are designed to dispatch mice the easiest. However depending upon the predator within, the skill of dispatch can be quite individual. Guinea pigs can be unnerving to the human because they scream quite loudly. Their necks are very short and wide and their habit of sitting still in a tightly wadded up ball doesn't give they ferret an easy target. Tenacious ferrts will get the job done but it isn't quick nor easy. Once killed and now a meal the ferret will open the guinea pig. Guinea pigs beinh herbivores have a LOT of entrails and the undigested plant matter within is excessively gaseous and very odiferous. I gihly recommend fasting the Guinea pig for a couple days before inviting the ferret to dinner!
As for the uninitiated prey feeders (and kibble promoters and so called natural pre manufactured mixes) out there writing articles; contrary to their writings ferrets do NOT eat the greens in the stomach contents or intestines! Typically the ferret will do one of two things:
1) Completely ignore the stmach and intestines.
2) Shake these items vigorously to empty the contents (far and wide across the room) and then eat them.
Guinea pigs rarely fight back and hardly bother to run; but man will they scream! So personally, because I have upstairs neighbors home all the time, I don't offer live Guinea Pigs.
A fierce predator ferret that is very adept at dispatching adult mice can graduate to rats if you simply move up in incremental sizes. Don't compare ages go by size. I stopped at medium sized rats. The ferrets seemed to enjoy the challenge and I didn't worry about the outcome. Rats are more vocal in their plight than mice are, but not as loud as guinea pigs. Beaing that I have witnessed a VERY large wild rat fight with a cat and walk away the victor (leaving behind a cat with no remaining lives) I have no intentions of outmatcing my ferrets. Most medium sized rats are still in the juvenile stage so aren't as savvy as adults.
I have also offered chicks and pullets from tractor supply and other feed stores. These too ideally should be contained in a disposable cardboard box for the better part of a day or overnight so their digestive tracts clean out. Otherwise you'll end up with bird poop everywhere! The peps go down easily enough but the pullets require a ferret willing to jump a bit at the prey.
Live superworms and night crawlers are tastey morsels but seem to give the ferrets considerable difficulty to pick up. Offer the worms in a box or plastic bin that they cannot crawl out from.
Crickets can be fun for ferrets but require a tub or other high sided bin, unless you remove a hind limb from the cricket prior to feeding. I've read that they'll sacrifice a limb to a predator themselves, and in times of famine will even eat their own limbbs so they don't have pain responses like we would.
Creek chubs, minnows and gold fish are offered in shallow (4" deep) bins of water. The ferret's normal reaction is to snorkel for the fish, flip it out of the water then sometimes eat it, sometimes just play with it.
I haven't tried crayfish yet, but think it would give them an interesting puzzle to figure out!
Personally if I feed whole prey to non predatory ferrets I will use the cervical dislocation method. This is easiest for me and fastest for the animal. The thought of gasping for breathe and the possibility it may take up to 15 minnutes to finally expire just doesn't seem humane at all. Again mice are easiest to do.
I say a prayer of thanks for the nourishment they will be providing to the ferret, then grasp it firmly by the tail and using the sharp corner of a table or bureau (NOT a bevelled or rounded corner) I swing the victim rapidly against the corner so that the corner strikes the mouse at the back of the neck. Unfortunately, yes this takes a bit of practice to get the force and aim correct, but afte about three or four attempts the technique is acquired.
Some folks will use a pencil held across the neck and a sharp body pull. I'm not that coordinated. Rabbits take two hands; one holds the head the other the hind feet and in a quick strong tug you dislocate the cervical vertebrae. I've only seen this done, haven't done it myself. The rabbits I feed come dressed from a butcher shop.
All in all the best way to dispatch whole prey is to let the ferret do it! Part of being a predator is figuring out how to feed yourself and my experience has been that ferrets learn fast and become proud of their accomplishments! Let em go for it!
Cheers,
Kim
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Post by goingpostal on Apr 14, 2011 6:12:31 GMT -5
I haven't tried crayfish yet, but think it would give them an interesting puzzle to figure out! AH! I was thinking about crayfish the other day because I used to go catch them as a kid, flip over a few rocks and you can grab quite a few, maybe I'll go do that this summer and see what they think, lol. With guinea pigs, I've learned to clean out the guts pre feeding, one of mine would chow until they hit them, make a huge mess and then they'd all refused to touch it until I cleaned it out. Easier to do before I give it to them. Rats they seem to eat completely though, even large ones. |
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Post by fuzzywozzie on Apr 21, 2011 16:52:32 GMT -5
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Post by fuzzywozzie on Apr 21, 2011 18:13:33 GMT -5
On the Honeybrookfarm site you can buy plucked whole quail but cost a little extra, which i would be prepared to pay. I wanted to know if ferrets eat any of the feathers or just spread them everywhere, would it be better to get the feathered version or non feathered?
Also how far would a 3 - 4.25 oz quail go, with three ferrets could it be shared for one meal and given something else for their second meal. Of course if they finshed the first one they would be offered another one to see them through the day but i'm just trying to work out as an estimate how long a batch would last.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2011 18:39:00 GMT -5
From what I've read, most ferrets do eat quite a bit of the feathers (though not all of them and they do make a mess). I'd try both.
I would say that a you'd probably need about 5-10 oz a meal for three ferrets. Females eat anywhere from 1-3 oz, males from 2-4 oz (though some eat more less. Depends on age, activity level, etc). Babies eat so much it's not even funny. Like 6 oz in one sitting. So, estimating you'd probably need about 2 of those quail per meal.
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Post by fuzzywozzie on Apr 21, 2011 19:26:43 GMT -5
Thanks Jackie, i think on that basis i would go for the larger 5.5 - 8.5oz feathered birds and if i get piggy ferrets I could tempory bulk it up with other meat and the next order would contain a batch of large and small quail to make sure they get a full meal out of it.
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Post by lessthansign3 on May 18, 2011 12:39:55 GMT -5
My experience with whole prey feeding is that Ferrts and mice go together best. Seems their teeth are designed to dispatch mice the easiest. However depending upon the predator within, the skill of dispatch can be quite individual. Guinea pigs can be unnerving to the human because they scream quite loudly. Their necks are very short and wide and their habit of sitting still in a tightly wadded up ball doesn't give they ferret an easy target. Tenacious ferrts will get the job done but it isn't quick nor easy. Once killed and now a meal the ferret will open the guinea pig. Guinea pigs beinh herbivores have a LOT of entrails and the undigested plant matter within is excessively gaseous and very odiferous. I gihly recommend fasting the Guinea pig for a couple days before inviting the ferret to dinner! As for the uninitiated prey feeders (and kibble promoters and so called natural pre manufactured mixes) out there writing articles; contrary to their writings ferrets do NOT eat the greens in the stomach contents or intestines! Typically the ferret will do one of two things: 1) Completely ignore the stmach and intestines. 2) Shake these items vigorously to empty the contents (far and wide across the room) and then eat them. Guinea pigs rarely fight back and hardly bother to run; but man will they scream! So personally, because I have upstairs neighbors home all the time, I don't offer live Guinea Pigs. A fierce predator ferret that is very adept at dispatching adult mice can graduate to rats if you simply move up in incremental sizes. Don't compare ages go by size. I stopped at medium sized rats. The ferrets seemed to enjoy the challenge and I didn't worry about the outcome. Rats are more vocal in their plight than mice are, but not as loud as guinea pigs. Beaing that I have witnessed a VERY large wild rat fight with a cat and walk away the victor (leaving behind a cat with no remaining lives) I have no intentions of outmatcing my ferrets. Most medium sized rats are still in the juvenile stage so aren't as savvy as adults. I have also offered chicks and pullets from tractor supply and other feed stores. These too ideally should be contained in a disposable cardboard box for the better part of a day or overnight so their digestive tracts clean out. Otherwise you'll end up with bird poop everywhere! The peps go down easily enough but the pullets require a ferret willing to jump a bit at the prey. Live superworms and night crawlers are tastey morsels but seem to give the ferrets considerable difficulty to pick up. Offer the worms in a box or plastic bin that they cannot crawl out from. Crickets can be fun for ferrets but require a tub or other high sided bin, unless you remove a hind limb from the cricket prior to feeding. I've read that they'll sacrifice a limb to a predator themselves, and in times of famine will even eat their own limbbs so they don't have pain responses like we would. Creek chubs, minnows and gold fish are offered in shallow (4" deep) bins of water. The ferret's normal reaction is to snorkel for the fish, flip it out of the water then sometimes eat it, sometimes just play with it. I haven't tried crayfish yet, but think it would give them an interesting puzzle to figure out! Personally if I feed whole prey to non predatory ferrets I will use the cervical dislocation method. This is easiest for me and fastest for the animal. The thought of gasping for breathe and the possibility it may take up to 15 minnutes to finally expire just doesn't seem humane at all. Again mice are easiest to do. I say a prayer of thanks for the nourishment they will be providing to the ferret, then grasp it firmly by the tail and using the sharp corner of a table or bureau (NOT a bevelled or rounded corner) I swing the victim rapidly against the corner so that the corner strikes the mouse at the back of the neck. Unfortunately, yes this takes a bit of practice to get the force and aim correct, but afte about three or four attempts the technique is acquired. Some folks will use a pencil held across the neck and a sharp body pull. I'm not that coordinated. Rabbits take two hands; one holds the head the other the hind feet and in a quick strong tug you dislocate the cervical vertebrae. I've only seen this done, haven't done it myself. The rabbits I feed come dressed from a butcher shop. All in all the best way to dispatch whole prey is to let the ferret do it! Part of being a predator is figuring out how to feed yourself and my experience has been that ferrets learn fast and become proud of their accomplishments! Let em go for it! Cheers, Kim I'll admit, as someone who owns pet rats, guinea pigs, and rabbits, this was hard for me to read. However, I read these things so that I can be sure that all of us here are treating the prey animals humanely throughout their lifespans. So, there are a few things I'd like to correct here. Firstly, you must NEVER fast a guinea pig. Or a rabbit, for that matter. As herbivores, they need to have timothy hay available to them at all times. If not, they can die very, very quickly, and it is quite painful. In order to avoid this, I highly recommend not feeding guinea pigs live at all. In fact, I would prefer those who want to feed guinea pigs to order from reputable prekilled retailers who are known to treat and kill their animals humanely - but that's just me. Secondly, I would also not recommend ever feeding a rat live, even a juvenile. Like you mentioned, they can cause quite a lot of damage as adults, and even a smaller rat has teeth and can do much the same. I also recommend CO2 for rats and mice. They don't suffocate, they just drift off to sleep much like you do when you're put under anesthetic for surgery. They just don't wake up. The CO2 is dispersed gradually enough that at first they are simply put to sleep, but as it continues to be released into the chamber, the levels become toxic. As a member of a popular online rat community, I can tell you that their general perspective on live feeding of rats to snakes is this - it's not natural when a captive bred snake is allowed to hunt a domesticated rat in an enclosed area, and shouldn't be done if the snake will accept frozen/thawed prey. (Ferret feeding hasn't been much discussed.) They see it as cruel to the rat, because the rat never had a chance to get away like a "wild" rat would. This is simply food for thought, because I know opinions are going to be divided on this. I realize the ferrets get enrichment from the hunt, but then again, they also get enrichment from cardboard boxes. They're not too difficult to please  Plus, even if a ferret is good at quickly dispatching its prey, the rat or mouse still has those moments of intense fear as its being chased down before the kill that it never would have had were it killed by CO2 or even cervical dislocation. Again, I know opinions are likely divided on this topic, but I wanted to get the rat owner's opinion out there  I know the ferrets have to eat, but I do also urge all whole prey feeders to ensure their prey animals are maintained in humane and healthy environments That means keeping mice and rats in proper caging and feeding them quality lab blocks, supplying guinea pigs with timothy hay, and not overcrowding them in smelly, dirty breeding racks. Thanks for listening <3 (Oh, and if anyone does need information on proper little critter care, feel free to let me know I'd be more than willing to send you in the right direction, even if you're raising rats and mice for prey! Every animal should have a good, comfortable life, even if they're destined to be food.) |
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I really can't wait to actually be able to get my furry little friends i've been reasearching lots and teasing myself looking at all the beautiful ferret pictures on this site and this will be happening a lot sooner than I thought! Yeah!!