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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2011 22:31:41 GMT -5
That makes me think it's the food, not adrenal (not ruling it out). I'd trial it for as long as you can without the rest of your business having ill effects :-)
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Post by joclyn on Feb 11, 2011 22:45:49 GMT -5
you've got the answer & solution already sherry!!
if this started after the introduction of the commercial raw...that's obviously the culprit! if you mentioned that earlier, i missed it...
either he's not that into it and is not eating enough or it bothers his system or a combination of both! i'd stop giving that to him for 2 weeks and see if the ibd issues clear up (and some weight is regained)...if they do, then the cr is definitely the issue!
in view of the food change issue, it's less likely that adrenal is the root of the ibd & change to body structure...still could be a factor though, given his age and being early alter. so, it's worth being a little more observant for behaviour changes at this point.
god, i really hate adrenal...not as much as ibd, though. that one is the worst!! i really hope the issue for boris IS the food and he gets back to normal once you get him back on the usual diet!!
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Post by Sherry on Feb 11, 2011 23:01:39 GMT -5
That's why I posted here, lol! I did assume the commercial raw triggered the IBD(a while AFTER the fact), but truly didn't realize it could be helped by switching him back for a while Never claimed to be the swiftest on the uptake ;D
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2011 23:05:20 GMT -5
Hehe, with a business of 9, it's hard to keep your head on straight
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2011 23:55:47 GMT -5
I would tink that a month would be enough time to see if the diet is causing the loose stool/IBD-like symptoms, which could explain the weight loss.
Remember that all ferrets will get a hormone spike in late winter/spring (unless something is done to supress the"make hormones" signal from the brain). If Boris began to spike in January, his hormone levels may be higher now and they may begin to drop and continue to do so. If Boris seems overly hyper right now, this may be hormones. If the hyper behavior does not calm down by may/june, Boris may have a bit of diseased tissue in his adrenal glands.
I typical see the hyper behavior in spring time. if my ferret seems a little extra hyper in the spring, I suspect adrenal activity is happening.....When Meach turned 4, she was a little hyper in the spring. I tested her for adrenal, and she was borderline. I gave her the Lupron shots for a couple of months, and she returned to within range values. The next spring, Meach was adrenal again, but the over-grooming started. The lupron did not help her calm down, o we hacked out one gland, which was cystic. The hyper behavioral difference is VERY subtle. The over-grooming seems to be the next thing I notice. While all this is not particularly scientific, it seems to "work" as far as detecting the beginning of changes to the tissue in the glands. Again, this is just my experience - but I do follow up my suspicions with blood work.
-jennifer
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Post by Sherry on Feb 12, 2011 0:03:20 GMT -5
Unfortunately, that blood work here is in excessive of $300 for the panel.
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Post by Sherry on Feb 12, 2011 23:22:25 GMT -5
Coincidence? Yesterday morning I gave Boris a cooked soup(he enjoys it once in a while), so he hasn't had any comm. raw in two days. No really yucky stools in the box today! The really funny part? I put in the meat chunks for Boris, Sinnead, Vincent, and Lucrezia, and Sinnead and Lucrezia were searching all over the cage for "their" breakfast before giving up and lying down. I put in some commercial raw, and they both pigged out ;D At least I know I can put this in for them, and Boris won't touch it without being fed it!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2011 0:30:11 GMT -5
Yay! Hopefully, it really just is the commercial raw, which is an easy fix.
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Post by Sherry on Feb 13, 2011 1:13:37 GMT -5
Oh, I hope so! Poor bud I just couldn't understand why for the most part he seemed to be feeling good.
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Post by Sherry on Mar 5, 2011 12:39:28 GMT -5
In spite of everything, looks like we are NOT likely dealing with IBD. His fur is starting to thin across his shoulders. And while yes, I do know it is shedding season, combined with the other symptoms, I'm thinking it's likely adrenal. It looks like the funky stools and the commercial raw starting around the same time are probably just coincidental. I'll be taking him in to the vet next month(too many vet bills going out this month for that!), and getting him a melatonin implant to start with. We'll go on to the lupron from there. Oh, my baby boy
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2011 12:54:07 GMT -5
I'm so sorry to hear this Sherry - I know how much Boris means to you. How long does the melatonin implant last? I'll be praying for Boris to feel better
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Post by Heather on Mar 5, 2011 13:38:27 GMT -5
I'm so sorry that Boris is showing signs of adrenal. That's such a hard call. I could of cried when Lady "B" showed all the signs, it was heartbreaking and still is to see photos of my beautiful little girl and my now rather naked scruffy girl (she's still my beautiful girl to me). I do have to admit though, as much as I hate treating adrenal (it's expensive). I'd much rather treat that then IBD, though some of the adrenal symptoms resemble it. ciao
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Post by Sherry on Mar 5, 2011 15:51:50 GMT -5
Jackie- the implant will last(hopefully) a year or just a bit under. I want to try doing it differently with him than I have the others. Zeus, Athena, and Sinnead went straight on lupron, mainly because I'd been under the impression melatonin was purely cosmetic. What I've been reading in the last year or so, I'm starting to question that assumption. To me, the problem with starting with lupron is there is really nowhere else for me to go. I still can't get the vet moving on the des., and while yes, melatonin after the lupron will have an effect, I'm not sure just how much of an effect. We'll see with Sinnead. What I'm hoping for is that the melatonin will have a good effect on Boris, and THEN we can move up a step and start lupron in a year or two. And Heather- the really weird thing? I was hoping it was IBD and could be mostly diet controlled. Likely because I've already got 3 out of 9 adrenal
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Post by joclyn on Mar 5, 2011 17:52:13 GMT -5
sherry, sorry to hear he's not improved any and that you think adrenal disease is the cause. makes sense tho as it's known that ibd symptoms can appear along with the onset of adrenal. that's happened with boo and it was resolved with meds...has also happened with taco - his ibd does seem to be a separate issue unrelated to the adrenal though as the meds haven't seemed to relieve it (the ibd) yet.
with regard to melatonin, it's known that what little effect it has on the hormones happens in a different manner than how lupron or deslorelin works and that the melatonin IS mostly to spur on the regrowth of the fur. it's also known that sometimes it loses its effectiveness over time. it's also known that is sometimes will have absolutely no effect at all. i've never seen any vet say it should be the only med used to treat adrenal disease.
suki just posted this all info about melatonin recently on the fml & fhl (with tons of links)...what is it that you are referencing that you've read in the past year that disputes that melatonin is just for cosmetic purposes?? very curious because i've not seen anything, anywhere, that states that!!
with regard to deslorelin...i used that straight off for taco and i'm thinking maybe i should have done the lupron/melatonin first. he's got a ton more energy, yes. did not really regrow fur and has not regained any weight nor muscle (altho, the ibd is part of the problem there).
it has been stated that the lupron should be used first to see if the disease responds to it (iow, why spend the huge chunk if the med isn't going to do anything...). i'm just hoping that i didn't waste the money on the des shot...time'll tell...
if your vet doesn't want to get the des for you, can you go to another one? even if they're further away, it may be worth the hassle of the drive - especially since you won't have to do it more than twice a year (if the other vet wants to see them mid-way between shots to do a check-up).
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2011 18:12:37 GMT -5
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