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Post by kainslie1 on Feb 9, 2011 17:54:20 GMT -5
Blue I agree with most of what you said - although I do agree that there is dominance in the world. I wouldn't say animals are born with dominance gene's it's just what we humanize it as. I like this article: www.clickersolutions.com/articles/2007/Debunking%20Dom%20Myth%201-05.docTara, If you catch him in and around your things, or can notice when he's going in for a poop. Catch him and put him in a litter box. You can't punish for after fact, even if it's by 10 seconds. I would go with the prevention (management) idea and put everything out of ferret reach. how long are your time outs? I know for dogs, it's 10 seconds per month of age. SHORT time outs are more effective then extended long time outs. Usually by 2-5 mins, they completely forget why they are getting the time out.
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Post by Sherry on Feb 9, 2011 19:23:11 GMT -5
Taratee- you weren't being "yelled at". You asked for advice, and it was given. And several have given some excellent advice. Personally, I've found for pooping, I move their butts to the box when I catch them, clean it up and ignore if I don't. If I can't physically "catch" them because they run, I ignore them. I quit any form of physical discipline(scruffing) once I started getting abused ferrets. At least with them, it does more harm than good. With a little kit, it's a different matter. But if mamma ferret only scruffs to about the age of 4 months or so, then simply ignores unwanted behaviours, I figure there might be something in that which will help me with mine. I do time outs for biting us, and I do time outs for attacking the cats and biting, and have given up on time outs for behaviours other than that. Didn't do me any good anyway, except to make me more frustrated. I either moved objects out of reach, laid down carpet protectors(digging), and/or put up barriers, as well as distract. Out of curiosity, have you tried a spray bottle of water for the pooping you see, but can't reach in time? Although most will consider it fun, it can also distract them from doing what they were so intent on doing in the first place
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Post by joan on Feb 9, 2011 19:55:37 GMT -5
I've never seen any of my ferret dams scruff their kits past 9-10 weeks. They just ignore their behavior after that age, and no longer discipline an unruly kit. Now my hobs are a different story, but they don't scruff an obnoxious kit...they sit on it.
While distracting my Basenji pups from unwanted behavior worked very well, it's never worked with my ferrets, especially the hybrids. Once they'd checked out the distraction, they went right back to whatever they were into previously. The best solution I ever found was to pick them up and move them somewhere else.
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Post by Sherry on Feb 9, 2011 20:18:19 GMT -5
9-10 weeks? Really? Wow! And yeah, not too surprised the hybrids weren't distracted ;D
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2011 20:53:00 GMT -5
What behaviors did momma ferret scruff for?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2011 17:34:33 GMT -5
I love Ceasar and I have to say that what he is teaching is excellent. He empowers people to be the pack leaders that they should be and helps to rehabilitate unbalanced dogs. His methods have nothing to do with training your dog to come, sit, stay etc. He is not a quick fix and the owners will still have to work with their dogs consistently. In fact if you watch him you will notice that he treats every case differently. He has a general way of doing things but he does not do the same things for every dog. He treats each case individually based on the needs of the dog and the owners. He is all about projecting a CALM assertive energy so that you are in charge of the dog and not the other way around. Being assertive is not the same as being aggressive. He doesn't scare dogs at all, he helps to bring them back to a state of balance which is so important. Not just for dogs but for people too.
What I love about him most is that he never says his way is the only way. He is always open to listen to other peoples ideas and really tries to get everyone working together. He has helped so many people and dogs. Yes he makes a lot of money but he deserves it. He has worked hard for what he has built and I am happy for him and his family. The more money they make the more animals they can help. They do a lot with rescue and have started the Millan Foundation which helps out both dogs and people. He is doing a lot of good out there in so many different ways and I'm grateful for all the work he, his family and his coworkers have done to help dogs.
About the pooping in your shoes. I'm wondering if he isn't marking them as his and then dragging them away to his hiding spot..??
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Post by bluemoose on Feb 11, 2011 17:50:03 GMT -5
I have nothing against Ceasar. He chose a career that makes him lots of money and that's fine. However, I disagree that his methods don't scare dogs. No, he doesn't yell at them or hit them which is good but he does force them into a vulnerable position. It's like if someone put a gun to your head and forced you to lie flat on the floor. They didn't hit you, shoot you, or even yell at you but are you scared?
For a dog, being forced onto their back and being completely vulnerable is scary. People have been attacked by their dogs for trying to employ Ceasar's methods. I can't find the link atm but are some very graphic pictures of dog bites people sustained while alpha rolling their dog because they thought it was the best training method.
I think Ceasar has good intentions and I think he does truly care about dogs but many of his methods are not safe. Yes, there's a disclaimer at the beginning of the show about not attempting the techniques you see but they know people are going to.
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Post by goingpostal on Feb 11, 2011 18:52:54 GMT -5
If you think CM doesn't scare dogs you should read up on dog language, I see plenty of avoidance and submissive behavior on that show (looking away, lip licking, ear position). All dogs, no, but there's a big difference watching a dog being forced to behave and a dog who wants to please and is enjoying training.
On topic, my little girl is the same way about pooping, she is 100% as long as I never see her go, if I wake her up or she comes out to see me, she gets distracted and goes wherever. If she goes outside the litter pan I clean it up, no fuss, no nothing, but mainly I just keep an eye on her and move her over to a box when she starts backing, I think ferrets have a very short attention span and she sees me and thinks about that, then it's "OMG, gotta poop, here, now!". I also got rid of all carpet in their room and make sure they go before they get into the rest of the house, it's easier than worrying over messes because really, a life with ferrets is a messy one! Although if they are in the other upstairs bedroom they will use the cat pan, they seem to really like that for some reason.
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Post by Heather on Feb 11, 2011 19:19:31 GMT -5
Ceasar's methods are similar to the monks that were vogue years ago when I was first mentored to training dogs. They were training Alsatians. The alpha roll, submission hold....it came under many terms but it was all the same thing. I've watched Ceasar work, he's very good at what he does. I do not advocate his methods for many people, most people for that matter. The one thing I don't like is the so-called submission hold. He doesn't appear to use it a lot, some of his other methods have merit. The alpha roll is always a show of physical strength. It says, I'm bigger and smarter than you so you have to submit to me. Taking all the psychological issues involved aside (and there are many) 50 lbs dog can overpower a 180 lbs male. Tell me that a 120 lbs woman can do an alpha roll on a 50 lbs dog. What happens when you loose? What happens when you get bitten doing this roll? Have I done this alpha stuff...yes, I was trained to use it because that was what was done at the time. That was the method of training....my alaskan malamute was trained using that method. Did he hate me for it? No. Was it a one time deal...no. It was a constant test of wills. He was a strong willed, "alpha male". He weighed 100 lbs. He pulled sled for fun (and yes they love to pull, it's a part of them, same as killing mice is part of your ferret). The problem was, I could have trained him to be my best friend, but I didn't, because of the so called alpha philosophy I missed out in a relationship that I could have had with him. You can be strong, be a disciplinarian without be "alpha". It works for Ceasar because he's dealing with dogs who are down to their last chance. He has a very strong personality and he uses it to bend the dog to do what he wants. The alpha roll is a tool he uses..."he" uses. He's very successful helping people's dogs who would normally wind up on the wrong side of the needle. Does the dog stay "fixed" though....depends if the people follow the directions. Most don't, just talking from experience. It's not the dog that needs training, it's the people . I don't advocate domination techniques, they only work if you keep using them. I don't use it anymore. I don't believe in it anymore. Now, you know one of the reasons why I don't believe in using it....and why I'm so against the whole scruff, hold down methods. They are domination methods and they're not needed. Softer methods can be used, they take longer, they're not as flashy but they're solid. We live in a fast paced world that demands quick fixes and solutions "yesterday". Furchildren don't work in that world, they work on their timetable in their own world. They invite us into their world, but we have to remember it's their world, their timetable. Their habits aren't ours. If we want to adjust their habits, then we have to think about why they do what they do and work with that. I'm sorry, I'm old it's just the way I see it ciao
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2011 22:47:07 GMT -5
I only have carpet in two rooms, my 2 year olds bedroom and my bedroom, both are off limits to all the animals...any room that an animal has access too is terrazo, nice and easy cleanup and hides dirt wonderfully!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2011 22:51:32 GMT -5
Haha, that's the way to go! Carpet is too much of a hassel. The ferrets have minimal access to the one room that has carpet. Makes accidents easy to handle
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Post by Heather on Feb 11, 2011 23:22:19 GMT -5
Absolutely no carpets in the upper living area at all. Soon, the carpets in the basement will be history too. They're a breeding ground for allergens. ciao
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2011 12:18:46 GMT -5
between the cats, dogs, ferrets, guineapigs, 3 kids, and a construction worker husband...carpets just don't work for us!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2011 13:30:11 GMT -5
Heather, what type of flooring do you use? I saw it in a couple of your videos and I think it is very pretty
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Post by joan on Feb 12, 2011 14:30:53 GMT -5
Excellent post, Heather, and I second everything you said!! I hope those who read it take it to heart. The domination type of discipline is rarely effective long term with ferrets, and usually all it accomplishes is to frighten or anger the ferret even more.
Jackie, the ferret dam scruffs the kits when they bug her too much, usually to let them know that nursing is no longer allowed, or when one of the kits won't back off when another kit signals that it's had enough of rough play. Once they're completely weaned, they're on their own...momma will no longer intervene.
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