|
Post by xclairex on Aug 5, 2011 16:42:15 GMT -5
Ok so.... my furkids have been on completely raw for about 4 or 5 days now.. YEY !! I'm just a little unsure how much and how often they need feeding when on a raw diet?? when they were on kibble they just had food in the cage all the time for them to pick at whenever they wanted too... At the moment they are eating: chicken wings (with bone), pig heart, lamb liver, and diced beef... They LOVE the heart and chicken wings, these are always the first to be stolen from the bowl and 'buried' under the blankets. What else would you recommend I introduced now that they are happy eating this? I'm also wondering.... should I mainly give them chicken and give them the organs 1 or 2 days a week or something like that? I remember someone sharing an example of their weekly menu which was really helpful but I cant find it now. I'd just like to get an idea of how much to feed them, how often, and how much of chicken, organ, bone etc I should give in a week. I have 4 little fur-kids all together. Thankyou!!
|
|
|
Post by Sherry on Aug 5, 2011 16:57:14 GMT -5
Bone in meats 8-9 meals a week, muscle meats 3-4 meals a week(heart at least one of these), organ 1 meal a week(2oz liver, 2 oz other organ). Minimum 3 different protiens Check in the stickied section for raw feeding, samples of bone in, muscle meats, etc are there And congrats on getting them switched! Maybe post a menu for us to take a look at to make sure they are getting all the nutrients?
|
|
|
Post by Sherry on Aug 5, 2011 16:58:53 GMT -5
Oh- and feed them however much they will eat. They'll go through a lot more for the next couple of months before settling down to a regular amount.
|
|
|
Post by xclairex on Aug 5, 2011 17:08:12 GMT -5
Thanks Sherry, ill take a look at the threads you mention. And its a good idea about posting the menu! ill do that too :-)
|
|
|
Post by katt on Aug 5, 2011 17:10:29 GMT -5
Ok first of all, here are some menus from graduated mentees... Feed them heart at least 1-2 times a week so that they are getting the taurine that they need. And organs should be 10% of the diet. Ideally the organ meat should be half liver, and the other half a variety of things such as: kidney, spleen, and brain. Here are some example menus. Your final menu should look something like these... SUNDAY: AM- Cornish Hen: Wings , rib cage and diced meat PM- elk tendons and commerical Duck patties (pretty sure the Duck patties have bone in them, not sure about organs - yet to pick them up) MONDAY: AM - Organs (chicken liver, hopefully other types of liver, beef organ patties eventually and pork brain - what other organs do they need? spleen? kidney?) And I realize they are going to have nasty poops ;D Do I give a whole bunch of organs at once or alternate them each week? Is it better to split this into two meals? PM - Cornish Hen: Legs, back and diced meat (basically the rest of the cornish hen from Sunday) TUESDAY: AM - Pork Muscle Meat (depending on what I have on hand this will be one or more of the following: pork tenderloin, pork chops, pork ribs - they don't really eat the bones so it counts as muscle meat, pork belly sliced - it looks like unseasoned bacon, the closest thing I could find to what you described) PM - Hearts and chicken necks(Chicken hearts for now, but hopefully I can get pork and beef hearts too) WEDNESDAY: AM - Goat meat (stewing goat chunks/some bone, commercial ground goat/includes organs) PM - Chicken wings and chicken backs THURSDAY: AM - Turkey Necks and split turkey wings PM - Hearts and chicken gizzards(hopefully a different kind of heart from what they had earlier in the week) FRIDAY: AM - Lamb meat and bones (commercial ground lamb/includes organs, and lamb bones to chew on - don't think they can eat these, just suck the marrow out) PM - Whole Quail (bone in) cut into smaller chunksSATURDAY: AM - Hearts (hopefully different from whatever kind of hearts they got earlier in the week - if I could go pork hearts one meal, chicken hearts one meal and beef hearts one meal I think I'd be set and wouldn't have to supplement with Taurine? Or should I get taurine supplements anyways?) PM - Commerical rabbit meat (ground carcass with bone- I too think this includes organs but let me know if you find out) I do want to get Beef in there somewhere too once I can get them eating it. I actually bought veal cutlets and am going to try them with veal first and then work my way up to the beef ;D Also possibly work frozen thawed mice in eventually, but I think for now that's a decent menu? Ohhh.... I totally misunderstood about heart. I thought it fell into the category of 10% organs! I dunno how I missed that. I have not been feeding enough heart then! They have been only getting it about once a week. The market down the street has duck, chicken, and pig heart. I can get some tomorrow. So how does this sound, next week's diet second draft: Monday morning - Mousey (whole, jumbo mice) Monday night - Rabbit legs or ribcage (I forget which I have left) Tuesday morning - Chicken hearts Tuesday night - Chicken wings Wednesday morning - Turkey neck Wednesday night - Turkey back and ribs Thursday morning - Duck hearts Thursday night - Pig heart Friday morning - Pork stew meat, skin & fat Friday night - Pork stew meat, skin & fat Saturday morning - Beef heart Saturday night - Beef heart Sunday morning - Chicken liver Sunday night - Turkey liver and gizzard I noticed the local market has duck feet and head, as well as pig face which appears to have meat, fat, skin, and cartilage. My fuzzes already love eating the bones in chicken feet so I bet duck feet would be a no-brainer. I could incorporate those, to get this: Third draft: Monday morning - Mousey (whole, jumbo mice) Monday night - Rabbit legs or ribcage (I forget which I have left) Tuesday morning - Chicken hearts Tuesday night - Chicken wings Wednesday morning - Turkey neck Wednesday night - Turkey back and ribs Thursday morning - Duck hearts with chicken feet Thursday night - Pig heart with chicken feet Friday morning - Chicken back & breast Friday night - Pig face Saturday morning - Beef heart with duck feet Saturday night - Beef heart with duck feet Sunday morning - Chicken liver & gizzard Sunday night - Turkey liver & gizzard What do you think? Here is a menu. This is based on what is in my fridge now. I'll also be rotating in CGH and freeze dried duck duck and lamb, but I don't have any right now. Monday - chicken wing 2 meals Tuesday - beef chunks 2 meals Wednesday - turkey wing 1 meal heart + liver 1 meal Thursday - chicken back 2 meals Friday - pork chunks 2 meals Saturday - turkey necks 2 meals Sunday - chicken drumstick 1 meal heart + liver 1 meal Okay sounds good, I added more bone to the menu, I was so glad to hear that I could use them more than once For some reason some meats (even the obvious ones) are hard to find here Oh well, let me know what you think, again Fifth ferret menu.Monday: turkey breast, turkey necks, heart Tuesday: gizzards, pork loin chop meat, chicken wings Wednesday: chicken feet, salmon Thursday: heart, veal- only meat, chicken drumstick or thigh (bone broken up) Friday: liver, chicken ribs Saturday: heart, chicken or turkey neck Sunday: chicken wings, heart, and beef sirloin I will also switch out some of these meats for bison, lamb, and other fish (such as whitefish, halibut, and tilapia) Just a few examples. The ratios should be roughly (as a reminder) 10-15% bone, 10% organ (at least half liver), and 75-80% muscle meat (including heart, and gizzards).
|
|
|
Post by xclairex on Aug 5, 2011 17:26:17 GMT -5
That's really helpful thankyou hurricanekatt!! ill print these menus off and adapt them to create my own. Are those percentages weekly amounts? thankyou
|
|
|
Post by katt on Aug 5, 2011 17:39:38 GMT -5
I'm just a little unsure how much and how often they need feeding when on a raw diet?? when they were on kibble they just had food in the cage all the time for them to pick at whenever they wanted too...Whatever they want. I always feed so that there is just a small amount left over. Then I know they are getting enough, but there is little waste. (kind of like in Easter cultures where it is polite to leave a bite of food on your plate to indicate that you were fed well by your host and not still hungry ). Ferrets self regulate and it is very uncommon for them to overeat, esp on raw. In the beginning they will eat a LOT trying to make up the nutrients. This should settle down in a few months. Also, kits eat more than adults - they need the extra protein and nutrients for growing! As for leaving food in the cage. Soup typically lasts 6-8 hours, no more than 12. Ground raw 8-12 hours. Raw chunks 12-24 hours, raw meaty bones, 12-36 hours (depends on meat, thickness of meat, and thickness of bone - be sure to remove dried bones as they will crack and splinter much like cooked bone), whole prey 24-48 hours. These are of course general guidelines. A lot of it depends on the meat, how fresh it was to start with, the temp of the room (heat and humidity will make it spoil faster), etc. Usually meat will start to dry up well before it truly spoils. Think about what polecats and wild weasels eat - they bury their food, potty on it (to keep other animals away) and leave it for days nibbling as they go. Their digestive systems can handle meat older than you may think. You will know when it is spoiled - it smells very distinct. Also, most ferrets (there are exceptions as with every rule lol) will not eat spoiled meat (unless they are starving). I feed 2 meals a day. Morning and evening. Breakfast time I remove old meat that is going bad and replace with fresh meat. If there are leftovers that are still edible I leave them and top off with fresh. Before bed I do the same. I put in new food, take out bad food, leave behind good leftovers. I feed fresh meat depending on what is leftover from the last meal. If they have nothing left over, I give them a nice big meal. If they have say, half a mouse and a chicken wing leftover that are still unspoiled, I will give them a smaller amount of new meat so that the new meat + leftovers = full meal. In time you learn your ferrets and how much of what foods they eat - I typically don't have too many leftovers, but I know they are eating their fill as well. If I notice they are out of food, I might top them off or give them a snack but typically they have 24/7 access to food minus the time they are out of their cage playing. At the moment they are eating: chicken wings (with bone), pig heart, lamb liver, and diced beef... They LOVE the heart and chicken wings, these are always the first to be stolen from the bowl and 'buried' under the blankets. What else would you recommend I introduced now that they are happy eating this? Look around your area for places that carry commercially ground raw as this is a great way to add in variety that you might not get elsewhere. For example I can get commercial ground pheasant and quail when I can't find those meats elsewhere. As for the meats they can eat...the more the better! Anything and everything! haha If it is fit for human consumption (and not flavored,salted, or injected with saline) it is generally safe for them to eat. And of course many things not-so-fit for human consumption (personally I'd rather not taste pork brains or rat lmao ;D) Chicken turkey pheasant goat lamb duck rabbit quail pork beef bison (buffalo) cornish game hen goose rodent (mouse, rat, hamster - frozen for several weeks to kill bacteria, guinea pig, gerbil, degu, etc) And any parts of these! Gizzards (muscle meat, good for the teeth), hearts (necessary for taurine) liver, kidney, spleen (organs), brain (organs also high in taurine), wings, feet and necks (great bone sources), backs, breasts, chunks, ribs, etc. Commercial ground raw you should check the ingredients if you can. They are not always all-inclusive. Some have bone, some do not. Some have heart, some do not. Some have organs, some do not. I'm also wondering.... should I mainly give them chicken and give them the organs 1 or 2 days a week or something like that? See above for ratios. As for mainly chicken - the more variety the better but you can use chicken as a staple (assuming none of yours are sensitive ). I remember someone sharing an example of their weekly menu which was really helpful but I cant find it now. I'd just like to get an idea of how much to feed them, how often, and how much of chicken, organ, bone etc I should give in a week.Also see above.
|
|
|
Post by katt on Aug 5, 2011 17:40:28 GMT -5
Yes those percentages are weekly amounts.
|
|
|
Post by xclairex on Aug 5, 2011 17:53:48 GMT -5
thankyou!!!!!! its so much clearer now! how would i know if they were sensitive to certain foods? because there poops are all wired at the moment but I presumed that's because of the diet change. ?
|
|
|
Post by katt on Aug 5, 2011 18:06:22 GMT -5
Yes it will take a while for their poops to settle. Up to a few months (like 2-3 max). You will notice that they have different poops depending on what they have eaten. Bone poops are the best, organ poops are often dark and runny (tarry), different meats are different colors and textures, etc. When Koda gets chicken his poops become runny and dark and sloppy and mucousy, and they stay that way for a day or two (over 48 hours) after eating the chicken. If he was not sensitive his poops would not get quite so bad, and they would recover faster. On beef he gets tarry diarrhea really bad, and it lasts forever. I have to go to supplementing and such to treat his IBD reaction. lol
|
|
|
Post by xclairex on Aug 5, 2011 18:13:16 GMT -5
Oh ok I see.. So it's a case of wait a few months for the poops to settle, and then after that monitor them. The problem is with having 4 of the little rascals I never know who's poops belong to who hehehehe! Xx
|
|
|
Post by katt on Aug 5, 2011 18:45:45 GMT -5
If you ever see a concerning poop, you can always watch them in the litter box during play time, or separate them for a few hours to a day (until they poop) and just go through by process of elimination. Also, if you watch them regularly as they go during play time (so you can see who pooped what right when they pooped it) you may start to get a feel for whose poop is whose. Obviously it's a bit different with 4 rather than 2, but I can often tell Koda and Kenai poops apart.
|
|
|
Post by Sherry on Aug 5, 2011 20:38:28 GMT -5
Works the same for larger groups, too ;D You just learn what to expect. But that takes time.
|
|
|
Post by xclairex on Aug 6, 2011 7:37:07 GMT -5
i'm just wondering.. you said about the bones splintering if they are left to dry out for too long, is there a chance this can also happen if the bones are frozen? I tend to portion all my meats up and freeze it.
|
|
|
Post by Sherry on Aug 6, 2011 10:35:00 GMT -5
No, it won/t. The bones have to be dried out for this to happen. Now, if they were extremely freezer burned, maybe. But not a concern otherwise.
|
|