Questions about diet

[Deleted]

Hello everyone

I'm just wondering if my current diet set up is adequate for my four ferrets. I have a weekly feeding routine that I go by, though I don't follow it strictly & I avoid cat biscuits/kibble where I can.

Mondays - mornings are typically cat kibble, with heart meat for dinner. Usually chicken hearts from the freezer, though when I can I get them fresh lamb/mutton or beef heart instead.
Tuesdays - morning, usually their 'Ferret shake', which is a dish of pet milk, lactose free & taurine enriched, with two raw eggs & some Nutrigel whisked in. They then get some wet cat food or a small amount of biscuits/kibble. Dinner is chicken giblets.
Wednesdays - mornings, usually their milk shake & some wet cat food. Usually get a bit of mince (beef, lamb, chicken or kangaroo) for lunch & then dinner of chicken necks.
Thursdays - mornings are kibble/biscuits again, dinner typically being a wet cat food & raw egg mush which they love.
Fridays - mornings, biscuits/kibble again. Usually they'll get livers, but sometimes I give them a chicken carcass if I don't have necks for them Saturday.
Saturday - they don't get breakfast Saturday, as they normally have food left over from Friday night. Saturday nights generally involves chicken necks or beef/ox tails.
Sundays - morning is more of their milk shake & some cuts of meat (anything I happen to have on hand), then their mush again for dinner.

Now, where I can I try to avoid dry cat food (wet or dry) as I just don't want them on it so much (neither is bad, but I keep it more as a back up & for a taurine & fat booster). I use the above purely as a guide & lately they've been getting very little of either food, though if I have an early morning start they get a cup of dry or a bowl of mush (I think they've had dry once & mush twice in the last month).
I've been giving them mince (it's various muscle & organ meats) the nights I would give them wet cat food, along with ox tails, chicken marylands & chicken carcasses on other nights, plus they've had some tinned fish a few times now. Also just cuts of beef, little bits I cut off the dogs dinner with some bone & fat amongst it for a bit of variation. I'm running low on some other meat stuffs I typically keep frozen (chicken livers/hearts/necks/giblets) & so I've just been buying stuff as I go to the shops once or twice a week, though I got them 3 lamb/sheeps livers from the butchers, which are actually really nice livers. Otherwise, they get quite an amount of minces, though their least favourite is kangaroo, theyll eat it.

Just not sure what else to feed them really. I would like to get more organ meats, but not sure what else to get & even if some of the butchers will have it (cheaper to get stuff from butchers than supermarkets, plus it's fresh). They don't like kidney & I have to hide it in something they do like, typically liver, plus the smell of kidneys makes me pretty sick (dunno why, I manage to handle poo & stomach contents pretty well, but I always have to go outside with kidney). Rabbit is proving extremely hard to get, though I did talk to someone about getting an entire rabbit that I can butcher as I please, but not sure if that'll work out at their end. Duck is pretty expensive here, though I may be able to get turkey necks. My ferrets don't eat a lot of pork, little now & then, but they don't appear to favour it much, but suppose if I get them more used to it they'll adapt.

Any suggestions or changes I could use would be appreciated

[Sherry]

I honestly don't feed any canned/dry food at all, so no help with that. I'd also stay away from the nutrigel because of the sugar in it. They are also getting too many eggs for the week. That could potentially cause some problems down the road, since the avidin(in the whites) can block biotin uptake by the body.
Any particular reason you've decided not to feed a complete raw diet? Since they will willingly eat bone in foods, muscle chunks would be easier for you, and give them more stimulation with the increased amount of chewing.
They already take heart meat, along with liver, bone in foods, and muscle meats. It would simply be a matter of balancing those 4 things, and they'd have a balanced, totally raw diet.

[miamiferret2]

i'd cut out the cat kibble and "biscuits"? what is in Nutrigel? does it have sugar or any malt flavoring in it? stay away from anything with carbs or sugar. trust me, i learned the HARD way with my ferrets in the past! insulinoma is NO picnic! so do yourself a favor now and no sugary treats, no carbs/grains.

[Deleted]

The only problem I have with giving them a totally raw diet is because I store a lot of the stuff frozen & freezing destroys some of the nutritional content, but as I buy large quantaties at a time, it's the only way I can do it really. Whilst I will get them some fresh meats from one of the butchers when I can, it's not an often thing, so I was concerned they may not be getting everything required. None of them were in very good condition when I got them to begin with, my Albino girl had been fed on cooked chicken bones, spam & dog biscuits, so I was a bit worried about her in particular, as she'd been in really bad form. The other 3 weren't much better really. All things considered, my vet thought all 4 of them would have stunted growth due to their previous poor diets, but they're coming along pretty well now.

Whole prey isn't really an option either as 1) frozen whole prey items is extremely expensive & 2) the rats & mice I have are much loved pets.

However, I suppose, if I remove the kibble & minimise the canned food to virtually nill, the taurine enriched milk would be okay? I'll cut that back to once a week, just leave it as the plain milk without the Nutrigel or eggs in it. What would be the recommended amount of eggs? I use bantam eggs, so they're only really tiny, so it'd be very little spread around 4 growing ferrets. Would it be fine to have 1-2 eggs once a fortnight, or once a month?
Also, canned fish, how often could it be fed? They seemed to really like it. It's either a salt free or low sodium type, like most foods in our household, as my mother eats the canned fish as well. She can't tolerate salt very well & she's been hospitalised a few times when she's unknowingly eaten too much, so we either remove or minimise any sodium in foods.
Also, during warmer weather, I get fresh prawns/shrimps (not sure what people call them on here) pretty regularly & I give the heads to my rats normally, but could the ferrets have one each? Just something to try later in the year.

And, should I try & get them to eat more kidney, or does that really matter if they eat more raw meats in general? I've still got maybe 200g of diced kidney in my freezer, was going to blend it with some chicken & liver, then fill a kong with it (my guys love their kong .

Sorry for the 20 questions. I've read a lot of information & just tried to combine it all in one diet, but really need some input from experienced people, not just websites & books.

[Deleted]

Oh, & Nutrigel is a high mineral & vitamin suppliment, though it is sweet, & a lot of people in Australia seem to use it without troubles.

[Sherry]

A lot of us also buy in bulk and freeze. I actually partially thaw everything, portion it out into a day's servings, baggie and refreeze. General proportions for a raw diet are about 10-15% edible bone(basically anything chicken sized or smaller), 10% organ meats(5% liver, 5% other organ like kidney), and 75-80% muscle meats.
That works out to approx. 4 days of bone in meals, like chicken wings/necks, etc. 2 days of straight muscle meats(make at least one of these heart for the taurine), one meal of 2oz liver, 2oz other organ, and the other meal that day basically whatever you like.
And the problem with sugars is over the long term. Insulinoma has been linked to feeding carbs/starches/sugars.

[miamiferret2]

i freeze everything. my dog is also on a raw diet. ferret is mostly on a freeze dried raw diet but he also gets the stuff that i buy from the grocery store. i just have to thaw it out the day before and it is fine. i freeze chickens, lamb (i buy when it is on sale bc lamb is so expensive), organ meats, etc. perfectly fine.

[Deleted]

Frozen foods retain more nutrient than foods treated with any type of heat process.

Nice idea with the kong, sounds fun! Seems like a lot of milk servings there and not enough meat and bone....Sounds like your fuzzes are open to eating a variety of foods, Sherry already described the ratios so the only thing I would add is if you need help transitioning them to different and more frequent protein sources maybe sign up for the mentor program?

As far as the products with types of carbs and sugars I also suggest avoiding them, or using them very sparingly..... prevention is the best medicine

[Deleted]

Okay, so no more Nutrigel for these guys, or if any at all, miniscule amounts.

Doesn't freezing destory taurine? That was one reason why they were eating kibble & the milk, because of the had added taurine. Though, if I can get fresh heart meat for them once or twice a fortnight, will that be enough? The fish would have the taurine in it too, wouldn't it? So maybe not so much of a concern.

They love their kong I originally had kongs for the dogs, but the ferrets showed more interest in them when I stuffed them with dried meat treats for the dogs & so I just use them for the ferrets now. The dogs have a rope toy with a ball hanging from a tree that I stuff with their goodies & they have to figure out how to get the food out. Great for terriers that chew & rip things up plus the ferrets can have meat chunks in theirs & not worry about some nosey dogs.

I may sign up for the mentor program, but not sure yet. If I have more concerns & someone doesn't mind mentoring someone who's a little odd, I probably will. For now I think I may be on the right track, & my four are certaintly easy to please

[Deleted]

Jul 27, 2011 22:52:19 GMT -5 @phaedra said:

Doesn't freezing destory taurine? That was one reason why they were eating kibble & the milk, because of the had added taurine. Though, if I can get fresh heart meat for them once or twice a fortnight, will that be enough? The fish would have the taurine in it too, wouldn't it? So maybe not so much of a concern.

Yes, freezing does destory taurine over time. However, feeding heart, dark meats, and/or things like brain and eye balls will cover all of your taurine bases. Feed taurine rich meats like heart 2 times (approx.) a week should keep you covered. You can also get a pure powdered taurine supplement online to sprinkle on the meals if you are really worried about taurine A little extra won't hurt them.

Jul 27, 2011 22:52:19 GMT -5 @phaedra said:

I may sign up for the mentor program, but not sure yet. If I have more concerns & someone doesn't mind mentoring someone who's a little odd, I probably will. For now I think I may be on the right track, & my four are certaintly easy to please

We are all a little odd in our own ways, so feel free to sign up whenever if you'd like to. Even if it's get to get a bit of one on one help to get some more info

Jul 27, 2011 22:52:19 GMT -5 @phaedra said:

They love their kong I originally had kongs for the dogs, but the ferrets showed more interest in them when I stuffed them with dried meat treats for the dogs & so I just use them for the ferrets now. The dogs have a rope toy with a ball hanging from a tree that I stuff with their goodies & they have to figure out how to get the food out. Great for terriers that chew & rip things up plus the ferrets can have meat chunks in theirs & not worry about some nosey dogs.

Be verry careful with the kongs - they're the rubber ones right? A ferret determined enough can chew through it and the rubber can cause a blockage. Just a word of caution

[Sherry]

We certainly don't mind someone who's a little "odd" as you call it! Like Jackie said- we ALL are ;D
And I echo the thing with the kong. One of mine would def. chew through one, no hesitation. I don't know if you are familiar with them, but you can also use foraging cups for them to work out as well:
holisticferret60.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=enrichment&action=display&thread=73