Sherik's Switching Thread/Heather

[sherik]

I got some chicken thighs with back attached, looks like there is lots of fat on it. I'll be making soup with it tomorrow as it's getting late right now. I'll keep the kibble out of the cage again tonight and see how they do again. So is thighs considered dark meat. I don't really eat meat, so I don't really know.

[Heather]

Oops, sorry. I didn't know you were a vegetarian, I would have been much more explicit about the various meats that your little ones need. Yes, chicken legs, thighs and backs will all be dark meats. These are marbled with fat and carry a higher content of taurine too. You will probably notice that there is substantial fat deposits on the back of the legs, thighs and a very thick layer of fat along the back. These are very good and provide a rich base of nutrients for your little ones
ciao

[sherik]

So awesome. They ate all the soupy in their cage last night. I don't know who, but it was all gone. There was enough for the 6 of them, so I hope they all ate some. Huck ate on his own this morning too, not as much as I'd like him to eat, so I'll see if he'll eat a little more in an hour or so. So I'm going with no more kibble tonight too. I'm going to see if the grocery store will order me in a case of organs. Thanks so much.

[sherik]

I scored today.... I found a whole chicken. With everything in it. Head, legs, all the organs. But it is a different kind of chicken. A silkie chicken, and it is blue. Never seen one like that before.

[Heather]

That's great ...You've got me. I've never seen a silkie chicken before. No, that's not correct, I've never seen one as food. I've seen silkie chickens before but as a show animal. Great score though. I picked up 2 chickens the other day. I don't know but you've got to wonder about neither chicken having a heart and the one chicken having 2 gibbies and 2 livers and the other having 2 necks and no organs at all. Strange chickens we're breeding these days
ciao

[sherik]

So, I'm just wondering.... do they cut down their food intake when eating just raw. They seem to nibble here and there. They eat most of their food at night time now. Maybe I'm just expecting them to sit and eat huge meals at a time. I'm still spoon feeding Huck though. When he feels like it, he does eat a little bit on his own. He's slowly coming around though. I'm sure he'll eventually get there, I hope. Are kidneys good? I think there were kidney's in the backs and thighs that I bought the other day. Maybe, I am keeping my fingers crossed that I can start adding slivers this weekend... I know I keep saying that, but now that they haven't had any kibbles in going on 4 days I might be able to do it.

[Heather]

There is no rush. I find that once they're comfortable they will probably eat you out of house and home. Keep a close eye on weights right now. This is the time when weight loss can sneak up and surprise you. If there was organ meat attached to the backs and along the bones on the thighs it was probably liver. Kidneys are considered an organ meat and do indeed have a use in the fuzzes's diet.
They're probably still waiting for that kibble to show up again I find that my guys at the moment eat their most in the evening and at night. In the winter they eat ... alot During the spring and summer, they eat more often in the night and early morning, depending on the temperature. The warmer it is the more likely they will eat in the evening. The amount also drops off substantially.
ciao

[sherik]

Oh they are eating me out of house and home, that is for sure. Between 6 fuzzies they are eating anywhere between 1lb-1 1/2lbs of meat a day. Everyones weights are the same as usual, with an oz gained or lost here, but I guess that might change depending on if they ate or not. Zoey is the only one who has really lost weight, and she looks good. She is losing her pred belly and more active these days, She doesn't play much, but she goes up and down the stairs and wonders around. She is back to her normal weight before the pred.
The organs that were attached were really small round red things and definately had alot of blood in them. Cause my hands were covered by the time I was finished wacking up meat to puree. I like the amount of fat in the back, but they are aweful for separating. Probably didn't help that I need to sharpen the scissors.
Do you feed prey food? I've tried to give them mice a couple of times. Huck is a great killer, but never eats it. I'll have to try again when they are more inclined to try something new.

[Heather]

I do feed prey. I find that if they don't eat what they kill they often require a bit of coercion. There is a number of ways to do it. Most depend on your ferret. Some ferrets you only need to get them to try it, to tear past the fur. I've heard of tying the corpse to string and then playing chase with the ferret. Allowing him to catch, tear and rip. Sometimes a naked or next to naked mouse... a pinkie is offered so that they don't have to deal with the fur. Another is to work it the same way that you would a strange piece of meat. Grind it up and put small amounts in the soupy. Increasing the amount of mouse as each level is accepted. You can cut the mouse and reveal it's innards though this method often works better to ferrets who are already accepting whole raw foods and only need a bit of convincing that there is meat under all that fur.
ciao

[sherik]

So how do I know if they are eating enough? This has me worried. Since I took the kibble totally away last friday, it just doesn't seem like they are eating enough. Their weights haven't changed, so I guess that is good. But how long does it take for their weights to change so I know if they aren't eating enough or not? Huck still has to be spoon fed, he is eating on his own, but I know not enough. and Zoey is back to her, I don't want to eat attitude, so I spoon feed her too, but she is hard to force feed, she doesn't take it willingly like Huck does. I'm tempted to stick a web cam in their room when I am at work and asleep to see who is eating and who isn't.

[Heather]

The web cam is an idea but what I usually do is once the kibble has been removed, I feed once a day....unless I happen to see that ferret eat a substantial amount or I see a weight loss. At this time of year, chances are you're not going to see a weight gain but a weight loss. What you want to do is not allow a huge weight loss. Unless the ferret is eating like gangbusters, you're going to get them that they back off a bit. They want you to give back the kibbles. It's not that they go...hey we wont eat so the kibble will come back, they're just waiting for that kibble to come back. They crave it. We don't call them kibble addicts for nothing. Have you ever gone without carbs...none, eaten nothing but protein or veggies (of course you're a vegetarian, so this doesn't work quite that way) but the craving that hits is huge. That's what is going on with your little ones. As each day happens that they don't get kibbles the farther away in their minds the need goes. Eventually, there will be nothing else but the food that they have now. Unfortunately, for some it happens faster than others.
Yuri, in my mind doesn't eat near enough but...he's put on weight, carries a gorgeous coat. He doesn't look anything like the scraggly little fuzz that came in here, but he doesn't appear to eat enough. I guess he's getting enough . I know it doesn't give either of us much comfort but maybe he doesn't need the huge amounts that some of the guys are eating. Right now my guys have cut their consumption in half. They've only dropped an ounce in the last 2 months. Every year at this time, I have a fit because every year they go from consuming huge amounts of food to dropping their intake by half.
Keep me posted, you're doing great.
ciao

[sherik]

I've noticed Sid has cut down on his food now. It must be the spring thing. He always ate like a little piggy. He also seems more muscular than chubby. This is the first time he's really changed. He's had winter fluff and fat since I got him, but he was a baby last spring. I noticed babies born in the worng season sometimes take a little while to catch up. I'm putting Zoey back on pred, she really has no appetite except for at night time and she is the one who needs to eat, atleast a little bit during the day to keep her blood sugar normal. She did this before, and I put her on pred for 2 days and she started eating well again. So I stopped it again. Huck eats pretty enthusiastically at night time on his own too. Lily always begs for kibbles. She makes you feel so bad, looks like she is crying with her little smudged eye liner look. Indy has cut back, but he still weighs a wopping 3lbs 6oz. My father gave me crap for feeding them raw. Haha!! He said they are not wild animals. Maybe so, but they still have the same inner workings as wild critters.

[Heather]

Raw does have a tendency to create leaner more muscular ferrets. Yes, most of my little ones have cut back hugely on their intake at this time.
Do you still have kibble in the house? I have had a couple of furkids who just didn't complete the switch until the kibbles was out of the house. They can still smell it. I gave it to the local shelter (even though we don't have a ferret shelter in the area, the cats were more than happy to take the high end kibbles)
Your little one, Zoey, is she insulinoma? or? I should prowl through the thread because I'm sure you told me. Perhaps, she needs the pred. I know that there comes a point in both insulinoma and adrenal where I think the ferret wouldn't live as they do stop eating on their own. Our intervention helps them through this.
ciao

[sherik]

Yeah Zoey is insulinoma and adrenal. But when I check her BG it is always good since she's been eating raw. She doesn't daze in and out anymore. She steals her remote control again. Just herself. I don't check her BG after she's eaten, I usually wait til just before it is time to eat. It is usually around the 4-4.5 mark, which is around 70 and higher. There are no open bags of kibble upstairs, keeping in mind I have 5 cats and 3 dogs who all eat kibble. I can't even imagine the cost to feed everyone raw. Plus most of the cats are 15 and older. The dogs eat orijen red meat forumla, plus they get whatever the ferrets don't eat at night time. All the kibble from the ferrets is going to the SPCA, excpet the GO, which I am giving to my sister, as my cats won't touch it. Zoey doesn't like kibble anyway. She does however get bored easily. She used to when she was kibble fed. One day she would want the dogs orijen, the next the cats eagle pack, then her own sometimes. Then I switched her to cooked soup, and she decided on her own that she would rather have raw. I am going to start her on pred again tonight just to see anyway.
I'm going to feed them twice a day and see how that works. feed in the morning with fresh, and at lunch I'll just blend up what they didn't eat, to make it seem fresh. Then the same thing at night time.

[sherik]

So one of my female mice had babies. I didn't even know she was pregnant, the last time a male was near them was cause I had a male that had fallen some how and broke its spine and the other male mice were going to kill him. And he got around just fine and ate and everything. He has his own cage now and still even runs in the wheel. Apparently his male bits still worked some how with no working back legs. But what I was getting to, is I want to see if Lily will eat a pinkie. She was interested in the last mouse that Huck killed, but of course didn't eat. Maybe if I play tug-o-war with her. Is that cruel? I don't want to torture a poor baby mouse.
Also I have noticed that everyone eats very well at night time. I don't have to spoon feed Huck or Zoey. I don't even have to dab his nose. I may have just jinxed it, but it has been 2 days in a row for Huck. I started Zoey on the pred again, just to see if it makes a difference. Last night I made some new soup with the grinder. There were some little chunks left inside the blender. So I decided to try with Lily to see if she would eat one. She licked and licked and licked. Then she stole it and licked it some more. Then she looked at me like "this isn't soup" and left it on the floor. But I like that she recognized the smell with being food, so I'll try again tomorrow when I make some more soup.