Why is Whole Animal Grind Considered Balanced?

[hugh]

I've done a search, but can't find an answer for this. On the Raw and Whole Prey Providers page, it states:

BALANCED Grinds/Minces are balanced with appropriate muscle, bone, heart, and organ content. WHOLE ANIMAL grinds are considered balanced. [emphasis mine]

Why is a whole animal grind considered balanced? Is a whole animal composed of the recommended percentages of each component (that just doesn't seem likely to me)?

We currently feed a raw grind from a local supplier, which we balance ourselves. However, we noticed that in the forum recommendation of 10% organ is the requirement that half should be liver. Our provider (and most others we've seen) only lists the percentage of organ overall, which makes it hard to determine how much is liver. How important is this 50% guideline, and is there any danger in feeding too much liver (we understand you can't feed too much heart)?

We are looking into whole prey grinds, particularly the Carnivora, as it's one which we can get in Canada, so we are trying to understand them better.

Thank you!

[unclejoe]

My comment with limited raw experience is that whole animal grinds are just that, and that in the wild a predator consumes the entire prey, with the possible exception of larger bones in large animals. Some large predators will crack the large bones to get to the marrow. If a ferret were to take a rodent, it would eat the whole animal. Ferrets come from European polecats, and I have seen video of polecats eating off a deer carcass in winter. That said, polecats are natural carnivores but opportunity feeders as well as hunters. Not every meal may be balanced, just as yours or mine may not be. I think it's important to eliminate things that could harm them, like cooked bone, legumes, etc. A carnivore may eat the contents of a prey's GI tract but it would not eat corn or beans in the wild, for example. It bothers me to see ads for dog and kat food that contain veggies as if that is supposed to provide a balanced diet. A loose dog might eat out of a garbage can, but it's not going to raid a cornfield or carrot patch. Some animals, like ferrets, lack the enzymes to digest plant matter, so even if it fills the belly they get no nutrition from it. Domestic dogs and kats may be opportunity feeders if they get loose.
The recommendations in this forum are just that. If you can give your fuzzies variety, they will love you for it.
I had a couple ferrets that loved certain vegetables and fruits as treats. In fact, Carol tried to steal a whole cantaloupe and did steal a potato. she would get a small piece of cuke, melon or green pepper as a treat occasionally, but they were not part of her normal diet.
DSCF1951 by unclejoe1158, on Flickr

[eclipso]

Don't worry too much about getting the exact numbers right. Whole grinds is the whole prey mushed together, with organs and bone. As long as the animal is part of a ferret's natural diet, they're getting approximately all they need. It doesn't have to be perfect, since in the wild they don't get the same food at the same life stage with the same percentages of everything in their body. I think you're doing very good, giving your ferret this food, and as long as the food is varied, natural, and safe, you don't have to worry about getting it exact. You are doing amazing though, and I I can see you're very dedicated too, you've done a lot of research. You're a great ferret owner

[hugh]

Thank you very much, both of you. We have been trying to do our research, but are aware that we don't know what we don't know. Knowing that it's basically a matter of being in the right ballpark is very helpful. It can definitely be too easy to focus on the numbers (we actually built a spreadsheet for working out the ratios!).

[unclejoe]

A spreadsheet is a good way to start but after a time you will be able to guestimate. When I first learned about raw feeding on this forum I was not willing to put inthe time to make sure every meal was balanced, and weigh out portions, etc. Wild predators will kill, eat their full and if possible and necessary attempt to hide the leftovers. They don't stop at 2-3 oz. As long as you are feeding a good diet by content, you'll soon figure out who eats how much how often and you can adjust portions.
As i mentioned, variety is import so I hope you don't feed the same grinds all the time because things happen, like suppliers go out of business, recalls, etc. Getting it from a local supplier is good. What meats are you feeding?

[hugh]

Dec 13, 2021 17:01:45 GMT -5 unclejoe said:

A spreadsheet is a good way to start but after a time you will be able to guestimate. When I first learned about raw feeding on this forum I was not willing to put inthe time to make sure every meal was balanced, and weigh out portions, etc. Wild predators will kill, eat their full and if possible and necessary attempt to hide the leftovers. They don't stop at 2-3 oz. As long as you are feeding a good diet by content, you'll soon figure out who eats how much how often and you can adjust portions.
As i mentioned, variety is import so I hope you don't feed the same grinds all the time because things happen, like suppliers go out of business, recalls, etc. Getting it from a local supplier is good. What meats are you feeding?

Our local supplier has been in business for a number of years, and is really good. We are currently feeding 8 proteins: Beaver, Beef, Elk, Pheasant and Turkey, and Turducken are mixed dinners, to which we then add a "pure protein" (currently chicken or rabbit, we have used beef or pork in the past, based on availability) to balance it.

We divide frozen 1 lb dinners into quarters, add the pure protein and additional chicken heart, then freeze each quarter. We rotate through the quarters, so they are getting a new protein or two every couple of days. By doing it this way, we find it easiest to ensure every meal is as balanced as possible. They also get chicken wing with their dinner 3 times a week, for additional bone and teeth cleaning, and a quail egg each on 3 alternate days. 

We are just introducing them to beaver and elk, as one of our guys decided to take issue with lamb, which he's been enjoying for over a year. Our supplier insists nothing has changed, that their supplier and formulation is the same. So yes, having backups is really important.
 

[unclejoe]

That sounds good to me

[pablos27]

I'm from UK and we don't have Carnivora here but I had a look on their website. I must say that the information about their products can be a little misleading - in the description of most of their 'Whole Animal Diets' meals they say that "Organs make up approximately 8% of the patty - this includes lungs, liver, heart and kidneys."(poultry) or "Organs make up approximately 8 to 10 % of the patties - this includes lungs, liver, heart, kidneys, and the tongue." (bigger animals). Lungs, hearts and tongues are not organs! They are considered to be muscle meat. Liver itself should be 5% and other secreting organs (such as kidneys, spleen, pancreas, brain, testicles, sweetbread) should be another 5%. If lets say 50% of 10% organs in Carnivora meal is made of lungs, hearts and tongues then the actual percentage of real organs is only 5% (both liver and other organs). That might be not enough.