Litter training? HELP!!!

[tsteele93-temp]

Hello,

I registered for an account but am still waiting for approval.

My daughter recently convinced us that she had to have a ferret. We did considerable research (or so we thought) and decided that we should get two ferrets so that they would have a companion if we or our son and daughter weren't always able to give them as much attention as needed and we purchased a two story cage and have even expanded to include the new plastic, 20 inch tall customizable fences that are available inexpensively on amazon and such. We put those around the cage and it has opened up a pretty large area, in which we can get in with the ferrets and play quite often.

Many days, I will come home from work and lay down in the enclosure and nap with the ferrets - they are getting plenty of attention.

We also have several litter boxes. We use the paper pellet variety that seems to be fairly common among ferret owners. And we have corner litter boxes.

We put the ferrets in their two story cage at night, so there are two litter boxes in the cage, and we have two litter boxes that are in the corners outside the cage as well. We learned the hard way not to clean the litter boxes TOO CLEAN, so now we leave small bits of dirty litter in the bottom of the litter boxes in the corner, under the clean litter.

I would estimate that 90% of the time they go to the litter box and use it properly. But as you know, that 10% of the time that they do not, is still a LOT of times with their astonishing metabolisms.

We are trying to figure out what we are doing wrong. I see people who seem to let their ferrets roam the house with them regularly. That isn't even an option right now! We've tried letting them run lose downstairs where we have hardwoods and that is practically a guarantee of an accident at some point. It is much easier to clean up as long as they don't hit an area rug, but it is immensely frustrating that our ferrets aren't seeming to stick to their litter boxes reliably.

We have two kits, boy and girl - from Petco - so Marshall Ferrets. We were told they are brother and sister, but I have no idea. They were the only two in the store, and they have turned out to be good pets for the most part. The boy is VERY laid back and enjoys human time, he sleeps on my belly when I nap in the enclosure, he likes to groom me by licking my face and ears. He's very easy going. The female is less excited about being held and petted. She is getting better, but I'm going slowly with her. She enjoys climbing through my shirt sleeves and out my collar when I lay in the enclosure. But she isn't keen to be petted much yet. She does occasionally groom me/us, but not as much as the male. Her name is Nibbles (because: toes!) and she is adorable though and I'm determined to win her over by being patient and passive as much as possible.

Neither of them are particularly bitey. They were a little bit when we first got them, but they have grown out of it quickly. Mostly now the only times I get bit are when the male (Bojangles aka Bo) is grooming my ears and sometimes he will just start munching on my ear lobe. My scream usually stops this.

If I insert my hand into their frequent wrestling matches, it is VERY clear that they are biting for play and "pulling their punches." It isn't painful at all, and it is really just tugging or using their mouths as a tool, not a weapon. Rarely do they even make each other squeal and they have NEVER drawn blood on each other. They are really very domesticated and good pets. The only other time they go feral is with certain treats (which we don't give them anymore - cooked chicken breast being one) and certain rubber toys. We avoid those things and they are very tame 99.9% of the time.

I'm providing all of this detail in the hope that it might help with diagnosing the problems. I apologize if it is wordy or too drawn out. 

My questions are as follows:

1. Do you all REALLY get them trained reliably enough to let them run around your house freely and climb in clothes drawers like I see all of these videos and pictures everywhere? Or is there really poop all over the permissive ferret owner's house?

2. If they are able to be reliably litter-box trained, what could we be doing wrong? We don't scruff or yell (other than just grumblings of exasperation) when they mess up. If possible, we pick them up and move them to the litter box. Otherwise we clean it with lysol wipes, wet wipes, and eventually a rug doctor or bissel. We keep the litter boxes clean, but not too clean. I regularly come along after they poop and sprinkle litter over the droppings, and we change out the boxes pretty consistently on a daily basis.

3. If we happen to be present when one of them uses the litter box properly, we reward with positive affirmation (good boy or good girl) and a dab of vitamin paste or fish oil.

4. Neither of them seems particularly better or worse than the other. It isn't a boy or girl thing and it doesn't seem to be a personality thing as they are very different but both having this problem.

5. Our next step is that we are going to put a PERGO-style "hardwood" platform over the carpet where the cage and enclosure are now so that cleanup will be easier, but I really would like to have them trained better so that we could allow them more time out of the enclosure. They get a very good amount of attention right now, but I know they would love to be more free in the house. I just can't imagine that right now.

Thank you for any tips and help you might be able to offer. I would be happy to answer any questions that might help you figure out our issue and point us in the right direction. I can post pics of the setup (although it is pretty standard from what I see) if that will help too.

Thanks in advance!
Tom

[abbeytheferret6]

I do have 4 free roam ferrets--- they get to roam around the house during day and get put up at night---thus, many, many potties throughout my house. Finding their favorite spots and putting a potty there is what I do. Usually it is the corners of rooms or near a baseboard somewhere. Because I have so many potties, I use paper towels. I have not tried unmedicated chick feed yet(don't know if it tracks)but they say this stuff is cheap. That is a possibility if you want to start putting out a lot of potties. I know a bag of paper pellets is not cheap. I also use puppy pads in corners---particulary near my front door where there is a corner. If you do this, run it up on the baseboard a bit.

Are your corner potties---jumbo size? Ferrets like to get completely inside a potty,turn around, and back up in a corner. I have one jumbo corner pottie and the rest are Marshall Farms square back potties. www.chewy.com/marshall-ferret-litter-pan-high-back/dp/128779?utm_source=google-product&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=hg&utm_content=Marshall&ut

My ferrets have gotten better with time. I think because I have many potties and know their favorite spots. I do have one that is about a 60 percenter though.I have no hope for her. LOL.

The wet wipes may be a better product---my vet told me Lysol was toxic to ferrets. Now the  Lysol wipes may not have the ingredients that lysol spray has in it ---I have never checked. Most people here use vinegar and water. For carpets they use Nature's Miracle products. Here is an example of one of their products. express.google.com/u/0/product/Natures-Miracle-Hard-Floor-Cleaner-Dual-Action-Pet-Stain-and-Odor-Remover/10879563509073269250_15316329290367384816_8064

[Charlie]

I have put out many litter pans (cardboard boxes with a side cut down to get in) where my ferret likes to go. He has gotten much better but there is still the odd mess in the house when he's out in the house. But what I do when he first comes out to play is let he run around then a few minutes later put him in his litter pan to go. He doesn't always go when he first gets up but will go a few minutes later. That way I know he has gone and will be good to play around for a while before he goes again. They will improve as they get older. Mine is just over a year now and only occasionally messes in the house. Marshall ferrets have been taken away from their mom way to early and it's usually mom who teaches them where to go. So you are now given that job. When they are out playing, every now and then take them to the litter and put them in. And they seem to like big square pans. Lol. And if you see them backing up in a corner or near a corner scoop them up and run them to the litter, they are getting ready to go!

[Sparrow]

My first ferret was trained to the point that he sought out the litter box 100% of the time. I was even cleaning it once and he climbed in while it was in a random spot right after I put litter in! Taz, my current ferret, is nothing like my first. He goes in his litter box until he deems it too dirty which is usually about 7-8 hours later when I'm going to clean his cage completely. Once that happens he poops either near the box in the cage or on an upper level in the corner. Taz currently only uses 1 litter box, but has two in his room (1 inside the cage and another outside of it). Litter training is different with every ferret. Taz has learned to potty if he wants to come out to play, and I put him back in his cage every 15 minutes or so while playing to ensure he potties and poops inside the cage rather than on my carpet. I also have to agree with the non-corner litter boxers out there, the corner style doesn't usually work out too well for ferrets. I have a high back litter boxes so he can fit all the way inside and also don't poop over the sides.

"And if you see them backing up in a corner or near a corner scoop them up and run them to the litter, they are getting ready to go!" If your ferrets are like Taz you better keep a hand under them because picking them up isn't going to do anything but relocate the mess, lol!!

[tsteele93]

Thank you all for the replies. I apologize for not getting back sooner.

So, in answer to some of the questions, yes - we are using the high back litter trays. We have three of the corner trays and one of the rectangle shaped trays. Two are in the Ferret Nation two story cage and two are in the enclosure outside the cage.

We put them up in the cage at night, and they have run of the cages and the enclosure during the day. The enclosure is in my daughter's bedroom so they have a fair amount of time with her in the room off and on as well. She is pretty good about doing her farrent duties. Occasionally my wife or I will help out, but she does a fairly good job for a 9 year-old of keeping up with it - actually she does an astounding job for a 9 year-old. I would have been nowhere near as good. My mom would have ended up caring for the critters. LOL

I have to say that your responses have taken a LOAD off of our consciences and worries. I can't tell you how many times my daughter has been in tears saying, "What are we doing wrong?" The consensus was that everyone else has these perfectly trained little ferrets and we either had retarded ferrets, or we weren't training them correctly.

It is nice to know that our hit rate isn't significantly worse than the average. It is so bizarre, we have gone two days without an accident or a miss, but the three days before that were triple doubles, or something clever like that. They were almost deliberately missing - or so it seemed.

I still have tons of questions. I will get to those in a moment if you don't mind, and I may move those to the regular board now that I am accepted. I hope that is ok. The plan at this point is we are going to have her carpet professionally cleaned on Wednesday. On Thursday, I am going to put down Pergo-style fake hardwoods in the ferret enclosure and cage area. We will finish this off nicely so that it - hopefully - looks semi-professional, and establishes an easy-to-clean area in which the ferrets have free run and the cleanup will not be as difficult and time-consuming. We have a rug doctor and a bissel spot cleaner, and we have been using them a LOT recently. We really didn't imagine ferrets being this messy as we had assumed they would be litter trained and that would be that. WRONG. lOL.

Another side note, to the person who was worried about lysol wipes being poison. These aren't true lysol wipes, but I suspect the ingredients are similar. They are Costco brand and what we had been doing is cleaning the carpet with them, and then finishing off with Costco brand of wet wipes like you would use in the bathroom. The thinking was that they would lift some of the harsher chemicals out of the carpet and not ruin it. Eventually, we would use one of the rug cleaners with OXY to get the area really cleaned. If the ingredients in those wipes truly were poisonous to ferrets, ours would be dead. So I don't think they are that dangerous.

Our female steals everything. She has stolen the (enormous) bags of sanitizing wipes several times, dragging them off and hiding them under the cage. She has suffered no ill-effects.

We are also trying to put them in their litter boxes repeatedly when we first let them out in the morning, that has some good effect, but usually they are so excited to be released from prison in the am that they want to play first. Keeping an eye on them while they play is best, because eventually one of them waddles over to somewhere convenient and gets that look that a two-year old kid in diapers gets, when they squint and bear down and you know what is going to happen.

And yes, Sparrow, I have made the mistake of picking up Nibbles to move her to the litter box a little too late and wished I had just left her there, instead of having to clean the entire path I had lifted her over to the litter box. There is definitely a "too late" moment.

I just wish there was a way to get ferret poop to have the consistency of dog poop. We have a 12 year-old Pomeranian who occasionally has small accidents. They are so easy to clean. If the ferrets did that, it would be no big deal. But as you are all aware, ferret poop is NEVER a minor incident. Bless their hearts!

Thank you all again for the invaluable information and kindness. Your help has restored our sanity!

-Tom

[Sparrow]

Just some advice, when picking up ferret poop from the carpet, if its fresh enough it will stick to a paper towel with very minimal (to no) staining on your carpet. I keep a pet safe cleaner in my ferret room so I can clean after Taz, that also sanitizes the floor. Glad you and your family are feeling better now about having ferrets. I can tell you, I joined this board only months before my first passed at 8 years old and these ferrants have helped SO much. Its nice to be able to ask people questions about them who actually understand them.