Sad it took us five years to find you...

[ferretgran]

Hello. My name is Michelle. We live in NJ. 

I am a ferret grandma to two wonderful boys, Duckie and Jellybean. They came to live with us at five months old in April of 2013 when their former owner got pregnant. 

We experienced our first "drunken" episode with Jellybean last week. He's since been diagnosed with Insulinoma and is on .05 of Prednisolone daily. We administer it at 9 pm each evening. Understanding that the dosage will only increase, we attempted to choose a time that will keep it consistent am and pm as we progress. I have a good handle on what constitutes an emergency and what quick actions to take as it worsens. The vet has recommended against surgery. 

A few days ago, we noticed a bald patch on Duckie's back/tail. His appointment is tomorrow (Wed.) evening and we expect an adrenal disease diagnosis. Our vet is experienced with ferrets and we have no idea what she will suggest as treatment. This disease is much harder for me to gauge and understand. 

Since I've found this forum, during the 25 hours of ferret research I've done over the last two weeks, I've heard the following items for the first time: 

- giving them the vitamins from a tube is essentially providing insulinoma in a tube. 
- providing freeze-dried raw food in dried form is very bad (for hydration purposes.) 
- that when we must put one to sleep, he must come home so his bonded brother can say goodbye. 
- that the kibble we've been told to feed BY THE VET is one of the worst choices... EVER. 

My main concern here is to provide the very best final years our boys can have. While we cannot feed truly raw, I'd like some advice on whether FDR would be a better option for them for the duration of their lives. If so, I'd like to make sure it's balanced and proper for them. We have experience with Primal FDR. 

Since the first diagnosis, we've moved the boy's cage from my daughter's bedroom to the living room so we can interact and monitor more closely. They love being out here. I think it's because they're so nosy and get to tease the dogs. Please note that the ferrets and dogs all play and get along very well together and they are also supervised 100%. 

Any suggestions on play, food, treats, toys, etc. to make these last years the best ever are very welcome. We truly attempted to be ferret owners that were in the know. Apparently, we've failed. I'm very sad we've found this forum "too late." The diagnosis caused me to dig much deeper into research and it's been a royal pain. I'm very thankful to have found you now. 

Any links, books, videos, etc. that you could direct me to will be read with attention. It's been SO HARD to find trusted and good information, I'm quite disillusioned. Thank you, in advance, for any and all help you can provide us in caring for our boys better over the next (hopefully) few years. 

For reference, money is not an issue. While we need to pay attention, we're not opposed to eating ramen for a while to make darn sure they're getting what they need. 

We are also happily owned by five dogs, four cats, and a Russian Tortoise. I look forward to learning and getting to know everyone. 

[ferretgran]

s17.postimg.org/87x0o4de7/100_9193.jpg

I used the upload feature to provide a photo of the boys when they came home. I'm not certain I did it correctly. 

They have a much more secure cage now, lol. 

[mermaidsirena]

What beautiful ferrets! I can see the picture just fine (it sends us to the site).

This place is wonderful and supportive. I was an owner 'not in the know' for many years (about 20 years ago). I most likely contributed to the shorter life of all seven of my ferrets. I cannot beat myself up over it and neither can you. You are HERE! This is a good thing and hopefully you will find what you need to support your ferrets.

[Blue]

Hi Michelle, and welcome to the forum! I'm sorry your little guys are feeling poorly, but very glad you found us. They look adorable.

Regarding adrenal disease, it's actually one of the easier issues to treat. There are implants that can be injected under the skin that will help a lot. The main one is Deslorelin (or Suprelorin) that should be implanted every 6 months. There's also a supplementary implant, melatonin, that helps with the itchies and fur regrowth (deslorelin does not fix the hair loss). Melatonin should be implanted every 3-4 months.

Your vet might want to do some blood tests before doing the implants (I think it's called the Tennessee blood panel). It's not worth it -- it often given false negatives and is expensive. Implanting a healthy ferret does not cause problems; in fact many of us implant deslorelin yearly as a preventative (there's no official scientific proof this works, yet, but there are indications and anecdotal evidence).

Your vet might also want to sedate the ferret first; this generally isn't necessary. It's just a quick jab and most of time you don't even need surgical glue to close the skin.

There's an extremely complete page on the subject here:

holisticferretforum.com/health/adrenal-disease/

That's the sister website to this forum, and there's also a lot of other really good information on all things ferret.

I'm not very familiar with FDR, but I believe it is good choice (better than any kibble) if you don't want to go full frankenprey. There's also the option of grinds if you would like an in-between method (basically ground meat with a balanced ratio of meat/organs/bones).

I'm glad the ferrets are enjoying their new environment, it sounds like fun for them. I look forward to seeing you around and hearing about Duckie and Jellybean

[ferretgran]

Thank you for the warm welcome(s). Those boys don't need affirmation that they're adorable. They know it, lmbo!

I read that link on adrenal disease. I get the disease itself, I don't understand the symptoms, danger signs, and signs that it's best for him to make the hard decision. With insulinoma, the symptoms make it very clear when to make the tough choice (repetitive seizures, etc.) I hope that makes sense.

Is there anywhere I can read about the symptoms of adrenal disease and their progression? What are signs of an emergency?

What do we DO if he becomes aggressive? He shares a cage with his brother.

I know about the inability to urinate issue, but have no idea how to know when/if that occurs! I don't like feeling confused when it comes to the care of our animals. I've had a lot of experience going to the vet with our myriad of pets. I've become a lot less trusting recently...

[Blue]

Ah, I see! With adrenal disease, I don't think there's a clear end game. I think what happens in the long term is that the tumors from the adrenal gland eventually metastasize, and so you see other forms of cancer appearing.

As for symptoms: some ferrets become extremely miserable from the itching, and will scratch until they bleed. There's some muscle wastage. Fur loss, of course -- I've seen a few poor little "naked" ferrets. Aggression, as you mentioned. There's also a particular adrenal "stink" -- the ferret smells different and strongly. Most of these issues are greatly helped with the implants. Many ferrets live happily for years after diagnosis. I hope that will be true for you

[Blue]

Here's a much better (and sadder) answer than mine:

holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/920/causes-adrenal-ferrets-pass

[Heather]

Welcome to the world of ferrets....if they can provide utter confusion on a diagnosis or the progression of a disease...ferrets will provide this (it's why vets hate treating ferrets)
Adrenal disease....is a pain because it can have any myriad of symptoms or basically none. It's a subtle disease with devasting consequences when ignored. Since the availability of the DES or deslorin or superlorin (all the same thing by the way)it's become a very treatable disease allowing for the slowing of the progression. Adrenal disease usually sets in 2 to 5 yrs after a spay or neuter if the DES is not used within the year of the spay or neuter as a preventative.
How do diagnose adrenal? thinning hair may occur. This often goes from the base of the tail to the tip (rat tail goes from the tip to the base and is seasonal) along the spine and hips and the belly, sometimes along the knuckles of the feet too. This is a classic symptom but doesn't have to be present. There is sexual aggression, mounting behaviour is often noted. They can become cross and short tempered sometimes attacking their best friend. There is prostate issues which can cause urinary blockages. They can become lethargic, often people put this down to an age issue, often it's not. They develop poor appetites, become very itchy (itchier than normal), they develop MCT and other skin lesions. They develop immune response issues, ulcers, enlarged spleen. The one thing that I note, but not everyone can, is their musky ferrety smell goes from a corn chip type smell to a dirty burned gym sock smell. All I need is to smell that and even if the ferret is symptomless....I treat for adrenal.
I hope that helps a little. As far as how do you know their time is over with adrenal.....often when they give up fighting and they become overwhelmed
ciao

[ferretgran]

I can't tell you how much this helped. My daughter, their mom, is extremely attentive when it comes to their behavior. It helps me be much more sure that we'll know when the time comes. It doesn't seem that the signs will be missed.

With the possibility of aggression, should we separate their cages? Would that keep his brother safer? While we're monitoring their playtime, I'm not too concerned... but when we're not present, I'd hate for a preventable accident to occur. I know they're bonded, but they're also bonded to us. We can do playtime together and playtimes separate, as well.

Actually, that might help if one passes before the other.

Rest assured, the diagnosis and signs will NOT be ignored. I hope that his life will be long and happy because we've caught it early. I realize that it's already at a certain stage if he's showing signs, but fingers crossed.

Are there any diagnostic tests that can tell us if/when it progresses? Ultrasounds, blood work, anything? If so, I'll get them scheduled when we're at the vet tomorrow.

I really, really, really appreciate all of your time and help! Duckie and Jellybean thank you.

[unclejoe]

Hi there.
If your vet is good with ferrets, you should be able to get a Suprelorin F implant. That said, they come in boxes of 2 and have a shelf life of a year. OUr vet requires us to buy the box, at around $400, but since we have 7 ferrets, 4 of them 5 years old, it's no problem using the second prophylactically. If your ferret HAS adrenal disease, it's best to implant every 6-8 months, so again, you'll be using the implant, but you may have to buy it up front to get it ordered. Our vet knows ferrets, but doesn't have a lot of furo patients.
Welcome to the group! I found this forum the first time I researched adrenal. We have a lot of experienced ferrents here. I'm glad you found us.

[lee]

Hello and welcome, sorry your baby's are poorly.
hope you enjoy the forum

[Sherry]

Hi and welcome Your boys are adorable. Life with ferrets is, as you have found out, often dealing with these diseases. In many cases, they CAN be controlled. Insulinoma is best controlled with a full on raw diet. And yes, FDR is acceptable. Give it rehydrated for two full meals a day, and leave some dried snacks in the cage in between. It is, however, THE most expensive way to feed.
Adrenal is easily treatable, and if a des implant is given every 6 months like clockwork it is controllable for 3 or 4 years on average. Sometimes even longer. You will know the end is coming near when it is no longer effective. We are facing that with one of ours after 3 years. However, he has also had insulinoma for just over 3 years. Thankfully to date, he has only had to have one dose increase and is still stable.

[pegleg]

Hey <3 Don't worry so much. Everyone starts somewhere. Even back then, you were doing what you were told was best for your babies. And sadly, the majority of vets don't understand exotic animals, and it seems even less understand the raw diet. What matters is that you've always done what you understood was right for your babies, and that you did your research!

You have lovely boys I hope the raw diet can help them.