Raw Feeding/Grinds (Alnutrin)

[jerkk]

Hi guys, I was wondering if Alnutrin with calcium would be safe to use instead of the frankenprey schedule. My meat grinder can handle bone but I have to cut up the chicken wings into pieces and it's starting to hurt my wrists so I cannot do it anymore as of now. Please let me know if this (with organs and varying meats) would be balanced as a diet.

Here's the info:
www.knowwhatyoufeed.com/alnutrin_for_meat.html

[mermaidsirena]

I have found pruning/gardening shears work well for cutting bones. Just thought I would share as I do not have a grinder and was using a knife/hammer to get them broken.

[jerkk]

Jan 22, 2018 11:35:34 GMT -5 mermaidsirena said:

I have found pruning/gardening shears work well for cutting bones. Just thought I would share as I do not have a grinder and was using a knife/hammer to get them broken.

Thank you that does help a little. I use poultry scissors but I've tried crushing them before to no avail. I'll try that next time! I'm still curious as to if Alnutrin with calcium would be a stable diet. (I'm pretty sure that it would be ok but I just want to double check.) Even then they haven't been able to be transitioned up to anything more than a chunky soup and they tend to eat around the bones.

[LindaM]

I'm gonna say "No", the product contains salt which is not good for your ferrets. Plus the Alnutrin with Calcium, isn't using bones, it uses eggshells. That cannot be used long-term.

Sadly, grinds also come with their own problems. If you are willing to work with it, you can do it, but not the brand above. You will need to brush teeth several times a week to keep down plaque and tartar build-up or risk gingivitis and periodontal disease. And ferrets who are inclined that way, may very well overeat on grinds where they may instead self-regulate normally on Frankenprey. The ratios is also very important to make sure your grind is properly balanced. Bone 10-15%, Heart 10%, Organs 10% (5% must be liver), and 65-70% muscle. Whole Animal grinds are considered balanced too.

Is the grinds just for this part of their transition right now?

[jerkk]

Thank you for the reply. I'm just looking for something better than kibble. It doesn't have to be perfect, just balanced. Regarding the eggshells- I understand the fact that bones contain other vital nutrients and minerals within them, but those minerals and nutrients can be found from other sources such as organs and meat (which I rotate the kinds they receive). They will not accept anything above a "soup/stew" level. They just carry off a chunk of meat, put it down, and go back to the dish. They rarely ever go back and eat the slab of meat they just left. I prefer to feed a balanced meal every time which is why I prefer grinds over a franken-prey menu/schedule. (I know it's balanced but I'm hard-headed)

If it's claimed to be balanced for cats... why isn't it for ferrets? they are both obligate carnivores that eat the same things in the wild. Rabbits, mice, etc.

Is there any other supplement you'd recommend that isn't super expensive? I know TC Feline is $60 a bag which is a bit much for me

[LindaM]

Actually, no, not all the micronutrients provided by bones will be found in other parts, it's also why eggshells cannot be used as a long-term thing, and that if you do use one who uses eggshells for their calcium source, it must be paired with another majority of properly balanced meals that use actual bones as their calcium source. You will for example, also not find some of the micronutrients in bonemeal powder as you would the raw bone, thus even that is a temporary source.

Mind if I ask what age your ferrets are and how long you've been working at switching them to raw? How long have they been on the soupie stage? What methods have you tried to get them to move on from the soupie stage?

Also, I hadn't said the Alnutrin wasn't balanced, as I actually can't make that conclusion without contacting the company to ask their ratios (that's quite important to do if they don't list them exactly by the way). My problem with it was that it uses salt in the ingredients, ferrets shouldn't get salt or spices of any kind. And that they use eggshells instead of actual bones. Those were my problems with it.

Where are you located? I can make recommendations for the US easily, but not so much for the UK. I CAN however, link you to a list of raw options and providers, if it might help?
holisticferretforum.com/natural-diet/raw-and-whole-prey-providers/

If you can answer the above questions, I'd be happy to help and see if we can find a method to help them move onto better. Any particular reason you feel less confident about the Frankenprey vs Commercial Grinds? I'd love to be able to help set your mind at ease. My current diet does actually include some grinds along with Frankenprey, so I do have experience in both fields.

[jerkk]

Jan 22, 2018 19:18:26 GMT -5 LindaM said:

Actually, no, not all the micronutrients provided by bones will be found in other parts, it's also why eggshells cannot be used as a long-term thing, and that if you do use one who uses eggshells for their calcium source, it must be paired with another majority of properly balanced meals that use actual bones as their calcium source. You will for example, also not find some of the micronutrients in bonemeal powder as you would the raw bone, thus even that is a temporary source.

Mind if I ask what age your ferrets are and how long you've been working at switching them to raw? How long have they been on the soupie stage? What methods have you tried to get them to move on from the soupie stage?

Also, I hadn't said the Alnutrin wasn't balanced, as I actually can't make that conclusion without contacting the company to ask their ratios (that's quite important to do if they don't list them exactly by the way). My problem with it was that it uses salt in the ingredients, ferrets shouldn't get salt or spices of any kind. And that they use eggshells instead of actual bones. Those were my problems with it.

Where are you located? I can make recommendations for the US easily, but not so much for the UK. I CAN however, link you to a list of raw options and providers, if it might help?
holisticferretforum.com/natural-diet/raw-and-whole-prey-providers/

If you can answer the above questions, I'd be happy to help and see if we can find a method to help them move onto better. Any particular reason you feel less confident about the Frankenprey vs Commercial Grinds? I'd love to be able to help set your mind at ease. My current diet does actually include some grinds along with Frankenprey, so I do have experience in both fields.

Thank you! They are both around the 3 year mark. VERY set in their ways. For awhile I fed them kibble (the best that I could find) because I didn't know better. Two years ago I started their switch when they were both about 1 and my life got way too hectic (moved twice, changed schools, completely uprooted my life) and so they went back on kibble (I am ashamed but there was too much going on) when they finished the kibble I had left I switched them back onto raw which was a few months ago. They've been at the course grind (I say "soup" because if I don't add water they don't want it, but it's course ground and still has small chunks in it) they've been on the soup stage since then. I even made a feeding den with hooks and everything for meat! But to no avail. Everytime they refused any actual chunks ): I am more inclined to grinds because.. I have a pretty expensive grinder that can actually handle bone but I have to cut the wings up and it kills my wrists!!! I do prepare 8-10lb batches with the balanced 80-10-10 (5 liver) recipe and I use the regular Alnutrin because you can use it with "balanced" grinds (some nutrients are usually lost in the process) and I want to be certain that they get enough of what they need. I will throw the Alnutrin w/ calcium idea out the window now

Basically I just need a rather low/medium price (so $50 shipping is not really an option for me for the commercial whole prey grinds) But I'm open to any suggestions. I am in Virginia on the east coast.

[jerkk]

Also I should mention I am 17 but I have my own car and work as a costume designer from home. I help pay vet bills and I will often buy them food but for the most part the "funds" for them come from my mother (who is completely supportive and willing to help considering my raw feeding) but I am always hyper aware of the financial pressure of being a single parent can be so I try to go the more "reasonably priced" route. Me being a junior in highschool and having a job sometimes I get really burnt out.

[Sherry]

Instead of using wings, why not get some chicken frames? That is generally rib cage and spine, which would be MUCH easier to grind up. Best bet for those is to talk to a butcher and order them in.

[jerkk]

Thank you Sherry I am going to an ethnic market today and they usually have some weird stuff life cow tongue and what not. Also I'm considering the frankenprey schedule now. How do you go about preparing all the meat? Do you separate them in bags and freeze then?
EDIT: Looked around on the forum disregard the last questions.

[jerkk]

Here's my schedule. It's based off the default schedule on the forum. I just condensed it and organized it so it's easier for my brain to comprehend

Monday: 1/2 edible bone in meat + 1/2 muscle meat

Tuesday: 1/2 edible bone in meat + 1/2 muscle meat

Wednesday: 1/2 edible bone in meat + 1/2 heart

Thursday: edible bone in meat

Friday: 1/4 edible bone in meat + 1/4 heart + 1/2 organ mix

Saturday: 1/2 edible bone in meat + 1/2 muscle meat

Sunday: 1/2 edible bone in meat + 1/2 organ mix

[Sherry]

As long as those are fed as two separate meals each day it looks good

[jerkk]

Jan 24, 2018 8:35:43 GMT -5 Sherry said:

As long as those are fed as two separate meals each day it looks good

Yes they will get two meals a day. thanks!