stacylo
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Post by stacylo on Sept 29, 2017 10:49:39 GMT -5
2.5 days of lamb grind and soupie attempts are enough to be sick of it? They also weren't eating when they were getting a wide variety of stuff. Maybe I should try for a few more days? I don't mind running through what feeding looks like or anything else for that matter because I'd really like to get to the bottom of it all and I'm open to whatever needs to happen or change to make that so. With the lamb soupie, it's of yogurt consistency, made of 8oz lamb, 1 oz chicken liver, 1 oz chicken heart, 3/4 tsp of bone meal then mixed with a tad bit of water to make it less chunky. I have a few ounces stored in the refrigerator and the rest in the freezer. I try to wait until they are already awake to feed them and try hard not to wake them but sometimes I do wake them if I've got to go somewhere and know I won't be able to spoon feed for a few hours. When it's soupie dab n grab time, I have been pulling it out of the refrigerator, taking the container to the ferret room. Sitting on the floor with them and putting a bit on their mouth/gums. I have to slightly scruff them to do it and then I let them go and praise them. With the lamb grind, Calamity will eat a little bit on her own and when I bring her onto my lap she'll eat a bit without me having to scruff her. Rogue on the other hand appears to be annoyed with the process and will keep her mouth clamped down and refuse to eat it. I have tried it at room temperature and cold and I don't see any changes in her behavior. So I will put a little bit of salmon oil on my hand which Rogue now likes, and put the lamb grind on top and, with Rogue scruffed, she'll eat it. I usually keep encouraging her to eat until she's so wiggly that she's clearly done. Then I try again about 30 minutes later. I do this process about 4 times a day. Usually starting with the soupie to attempt that and then the grind. Sometimes I'll do this in their play area and sometimes when I think they're being distracted by their sibling I'll bring them out to the living room. Rogue's energy levels are lower than they were and she had a clean bill of health yesterday (except for the possible coccidia that they're being treated for over the next couple days as a safety measure). The vet thinks her energy is low because she's not eating much (makes sense!). She suggested I maybe go 50/50 lamb and something else but LindaM mentioned getting them to eat normally one one protein before moving to another and the vet agreed with this idea. Rogue did lick the top of the lamb grind yesterday just a bit all on her own but then ran away from it. With Rogue, I have wondered if she's just trying to be more stubborn than me so I have been keeping her in my lap until she eats some. As long as she eats a little I'll let her go play. Other than communicating with my husband about my frustrations and typing it online here, they don't see anything but positivity and warmth from me. I play with them every day and they have 8 to 10 hours out of their cage every day. We snuggle and have lots of fun. For the first two weeks that they came home with me they were being syringe fed an A/D and meat baby food mix and I wonder if that messed up the relationship with food. They started really pulling back from the syringe food so that's when I really started giving them lots of variety of protein and bone in meals, etc. They took to it for about a week and we are on around day 10 of very little eating. I've moved to shallow bowls/plates which has not changed anything either. UPDATE: Calamity just ate a little itty bitty bit of lamb soupie all on her own. This makes me wonder if Rogue is just being stubborn?? I just don't know!
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stacylo
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Raw Feeder
Posts: 225
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Post by stacylo on Sept 29, 2017 11:31:53 GMT -5
Here are some pictures of their poop in the last 36 hours: The lighter, runnier poop is Calamity. The darker poop is Rogue. imgur.com/a/iaj0P
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Post by Aftershock on Sept 29, 2017 11:48:23 GMT -5
There's a fine line of them boycotting food to be stinkers and keeping them on it for a few days to make them eat it, and them not eating enough so a swap is in order. Honestly, I'm more concerned with getting them to eat right now. They've been sick, they are still probably bouncing back from it, but they are babies and they need to be eating more than what they have been. A 50/50 mix or even lamb in the am and different protein in the pm may help.
I promise, things will be okay. You got this.
Honestly, I've managed to trick one of mine into eating mouse when he was half asleep. He sucked up about six pieces of fur before he realized what it was and wouln't eat anymore. If it helps, use it. When I introduce a new food, I go in to feed them about 4-5 times that day, and the only time they are awake for it is in the morning. Waking them up for food also gives me a chance to love on them before I do so, and I feel like that gives a positive start to the whole thing.
Try praising the moment they lick, and if they keep going. Their attention spans are short. With Rogue, let her go after she takes a lick, not when she starts to wiggle. If you let her go when she starts to wiggle, this teaches her to throw a fit when she wants to go vs eating like you are asking her to. So light scruff, let her lick, praise, let her go, then grab her to do it again in 2-3 minutes. They are incredibly smart, and they catch on quick. The key here is always ending on a positive (ending with them doing what you want them to, then they can go free).
Think super small baby steps. Right now, one lick is the standard, then you can move up to two licks, then three, you should be able to let go of the scruff and just lightly hold under their rib cage.
Yes, they were eating bone in meals and now they aren't, that's okay. Don't mind how other people's switches went, you are not them, and your ferrets are not theirs. Comparing your switch to others isn't fair to you, and the only thing it will do is upset you, and your ferrets can feel that.
I still get super frustrated trying to get Cow to eat new things, I won't lie. Gator is a food vacuum and eats practically everything I throw at him. Croc, all I have to do is get him licking and lightly hold him. Cow, she clamps her jaw shut. If I manage to get some into her mouth, she violently shakes her head to fling it everywhere, gags, and paws at her mouth. She also starts to freak out because she makes such a mess on herself. She's deaf too, by the way, so verbal praise doesn't work with her. She has done this since I brought her home. If I can get Cow eating wholeprey, I have every faith you can get these two girlies eating full frankenprey once again<3
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stacylo
Junior Member
Raw Feeder
Posts: 225
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Post by stacylo on Sept 29, 2017 12:12:40 GMT -5
Aftershock Your post is so helpful that it totally made me cry. Thank you for the advice and thank you for the encouragement and boost. I can do the 50/50 mix with Rogue. I wonder if I should go with the A/D and meat baby food they had been eating to gain some weight? Calamity just licked the lamb soupie bowl clean and Rogue sniffed at it while Calamity ate it and I'm hoping that's a good sign for Rogue. I'll start waking them up for food a bit too then. I had worried about it seeming invasive but you make a great point about the bonding time before eating. And good point on the praising when she takes a lick and letting her go. I will go this route. Thank you. I need a box of tissues now. :)
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Post by Aftershock on Sept 29, 2017 15:47:42 GMT -5
Let's wait with the A/D and baby food- I'm thinking of those only as last resorts. Try the 50/50 with her and the new process and see if that helps<3 YAY! Go Calamity! Yes, sniffing it is a very small good sign. I'm a jerk, I wake mine up for loves pretty often some days. It's the only time I can get a small amount of snuggling in. Bahahahahahahahaha. stacylo these girlies have had a mass of issues, and you've risen to the occasion, that is no small feat. Especially when it comes to ferrets. They are expensive, they are prone to health issues, they take a lot of time, and a lot of work. I've seen occasions that the owners give them up because they found out they had a health issue. You haven't had much of the kit experience yet, all of that fun, the constant bouncing, the dooking and laughing, all of the fun new joys, and you still continue to push forward, and you aren't giving up. I'm so very proud of you.These girlies are lucky to have such a wonderful ferrent<3
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stacylo
Junior Member
Raw Feeder
Posts: 225
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Post by stacylo on Sept 29, 2017 18:32:54 GMT -5
Thank you, Aftershock. Giving up hasn't even run through my head. I'll figure them out at some point I'm sure. It's the fierce sense of urgency that makes it so difficult. I'm in it for the long haul even though I feel like I've totally failed the first month of being a ferrent.
Calamity ate some more soupie. It's so crazy to me that she's doing better than Rogue because she was a lot sicker. I would guess that a month later they would be over their sickness but maybe not? I don't know what a reasonable timeframe would be for that.
How many days of this new strategy should I go before being stressed about it? Three? I'm not sure what a reasonable timeline is for this stuff either.
On the plus side, they have been remarkably litter trained right from the start. There has only been ONE accident so far. I've been so worried about their food consumption that I haven't celebrated the little victories like litter training.
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Post by Aftershock on Sept 29, 2017 20:51:03 GMT -5
You haven't failed your first month, look at it more of a crash course of being a ferrent.
I think of it more like, being sick can throw them out of 'wack'. Think of it like being stuck sick in bed for a week and trying to get back into your normal routine. It can take a while. Not to mention they are newbies trying to adjust to to a new home to<3 I swear Cow hated me the first two months. The combination of switching her, the two weeks of antibiotics for her UTI, and teaching her not to bite us. She was probably plotting to off us in our sleep. lmao
For now, take it feeding by feeding, I know it's hard, but try not to think of tomorrow. Take your tiny wins and celebrate them. ; ) It's always easier said than done, but patience is your best friend here, patience with them, and with yourself.
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stacylo
Junior Member
Raw Feeder
Posts: 225
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Post by stacylo on Sept 30, 2017 8:29:49 GMT -5
Oh my goodness!!!! I woke up this morning to all FOUR OUNCES of soupie were EATEN!!!!!! I have no idea who ate it (though I highly suspect Calamity but whether it was both of them or one of them it was FOUR OUNCES!)
And then to top that off, this morning I set out another bowl of soupie and Rogue ate about an ounce ENTIRELY BY HERSELF!!! And Rogue ate about 2 ounces of duck last night (I've been keeping Calamity on the lamb stuff for now).
We're making progress! I'm not sure I could have squealed any louder to see Rogue eating all on her own! It wasn't much but still!
And poor Cow, sounds like she's been through a lot! I adore her markings though. And the look on Gator's face is awfully similar to Sealy's :D.
I'll try not to let this progress dictate my expectations for the next meal but I am so thrilled to see some progress!
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Post by Aftershock on Sept 30, 2017 11:41:59 GMT -5
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! *ahem* That is SO AMAZING TO HEAR!
You have definitely got this<3 KEEP IT UP! Give those girlies some extra loves for me, alright?
Bahahahaha- Cow is pretty adorable. Her personality cracks me up<3 .... I actually never realized Gator and Sealy's pictures look similar LMAO!
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stacylo
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Posts: 225
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Post by stacylo on Sept 30, 2017 20:42:06 GMT -5
I gave them lots of extra loves for you today! Calamity is eating the soupie like crazy so tomorrow I'll add some slivers. Rogue I can't figure out if she's eating on her own or not. If not, then today Calamity ate more than she's ever ate before (we went through 8 ounces of soupie today). I wonder if the coccidia treatment is actually targeting the issue? I'm not sure.
I did the baby steps with Rogue and she picked up on a lick and then she can go. I've separated them for the night so I can figure out who is eating what so I can better plan my approach tomorrow. If it's just Calamity then holy cow she's been eating tons today! IF Rogue is eating it she refuses to do it in front of me which I definitely wouldn't put that past her. I do have a video camera I can set up in there if all else fails but I separated them in the FN cage tonight so hopefully that'll shed some light and hopefully both of them will have eaten it!
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Post by Aftershock on Oct 1, 2017 10:10:23 GMT -5
How are they doing today? : D
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stacylo
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Posts: 225
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Post by stacylo on Oct 1, 2017 11:49:22 GMT -5
Sorry for the delay! We lost power on our block this morning so I had no internet for my laptop and my phone was videotaping the fuzzies!
So I had separated them last night and Rogue ate 1.6 ounces of lamb soupie all on her own! Calamity didn't eat overnight but I've watched her eat a lot earlier in the day so I wasn't worried. Then this morning I set up my cell to video tape and they ate a total of 2.6 ounces by 11:30am. Looked like Calamity a little more but Rogue still ate a bunch. Videotaping them has been super interesting. It appears as though Rogue refuses to eat with me around but will go to the bowl when I'm not there. So far they've eaten around 3.8 ounces so far today which is more than they had been putting down altogether. I figure since Rogue is eating on her own that I shouldn't grab'n'dab her anymore with it. What do you think?
I don't think I'll separate them again tonight because I really just wanted to make sure Rogue was eating and they really don't seem to enjoy being apart.
What's interesting is they don't seem to feast all at once on the food which a lot of pictures I see of other ferrets it seems as though they eat all at once. These two eat some and then go play and then come back and eat some more and then go play. Little bits more often instead of a whole lot at one time.
I had to go buy some more lamb so they will have some slivers in it later today. I'm just basking in a little bit of relief that they appear to be eating. I'm going to videotape the whole day and see what I can learn from everything.
Yay!!!!!
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Post by Aftershock on Oct 1, 2017 14:39:49 GMT -5
I agree with not splitting them up again<3
YAY!!!!!! *high five*
Honestly, I would probably keep up with the grab'n'dab twice a day, just to reinforce that soup is delicious and to retrain her that eating in front of you is okay. It will also help if you ever need to introduce a new protein or have to soup feed her again later. I would only do these grab'n'dab sessions for about 15 min at a time though, since she is eating on her own now. Sound good?
Actually- Many ferrets eat little amounts throughout the day, in some cases (like Insulinoma) it needs to be encouraged, I noticed my crew did so more often when they were younger vs as they got older. : )
You are doing FABULOUS! KEEP IT UP!
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stacylo
Junior Member
Raw Feeder
Posts: 225
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Post by stacylo on Oct 1, 2017 19:24:51 GMT -5
Yep, I will continue the grab'n'dab sessions twice a day for 15 minutes each, thank you! I would definitely like to get them eating more protein than just lamb (lamb is expensive! but Calamity hasn't had any diarrhea with it.) I may at some point try chicken again but first I'd like them to just be consistently eating again. And I didn't know that about the littles! I always see super awesome photos of everyone eating at the same time and assume mine are the minority. So far today (it's 8:15pm) they have eaten a combined 6.8 ounces of lamb soupie (1 ounce of that with a handful of slivers..not many because I'm worried about over doing it again) and they've shared an egg. I assume every meal I'll just put in more and more slivers until it's all slivers and no soupie? I'm unsure of the timing on that. I'm so proud of my fuzzies!! Here are screenshots taken from the video of both of them eating and then one of just Rogue. Sorry for the quality of them. One is taken before I cleaned their cage and the other is after. imgur.com/a/AsPjZ
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stacylo
Junior Member
Raw Feeder
Posts: 225
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Post by stacylo on Oct 2, 2017 6:32:23 GMT -5
I woke up to them having eaten 2.6 ounces overnight which puts their consumption right around 9.4 ounces in 24 hours plus the egg! They ate the slivers (left a few of them on the bottom of the bowl but I just think they hadn't been gotten to yet, not picked around).
Their poops are a bit chalky so when I get home tonight I'm going to mix the soupie with a bit more meat. I used 3/4 a tsp of bone meal but it must be too much.
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