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Post by sheresafaye on Jun 6, 2017 16:23:41 GMT -5
I changed my ferrets to the raw diet and for the most part they love it! They absolutely adore liver and heart and all that gross stuff lol however when i went to give them chicken they refused to eat it unless i cook it first and let it cool. Knowing they cant have cooked bones i of course take those out. But my question is should I keep trying to try and get them to eat it raw? Or is cooking it ok as long as I take out the bones? Will no bones mess up their diet?
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Post by raynebc on Jun 6, 2017 16:45:37 GMT -5
They'll eventually need to eat raw bone, but in the short term ground egg shell or bone meal would be better than no calcium source. Have they had the raw soup recipe before? This could get them used to the flavor of chicken and you can gradually make it thicker and with increasingly large chunks of meat. Do they like proteins other than chicken?
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Post by Heather on Jun 6, 2017 17:12:48 GMT -5
A meal of organs is not a good thing as there is a very limited consumption of those. Let's just say too much of a good thing! Do not cook their food for them, it's destroying much of the nutritional value. Have you read through the files. The easiest way to do this is to go to the archives (these are graduated members who have taken their little ones through the switch from beginning to graduation) and read. Start at the beginning see how the mentors start them, check on their menus, check on the switching hints. There is a ton of information but one of the most important things is that the diet must be balanced to be healthy and too much or not enough of certain components are not healthy ciao
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Post by LindaM on Jun 6, 2017 18:06:07 GMT -5
The problem with cooked meat is not only the bone, but there will be zero nutritional value left, just like Heather said. Think of it like eating cardboard, there is no value, no purpose anymore. That's why the animal food companies need to add things back into the canned foods, as those are all cooked to be canned in the first place. Nutrition gets lost. An unbalanced raw diet is very dangerous to your ferrets, they need to eat a properly balanced diet. Too much liver for example, can lead to a Vitamin A toxicity. But that's why the forum is here to help with this journey. I'm gonna link to some of the info for you, please read through it all. Intro to RawA ferret needs to have all of the following; hearts, organs, muscle meat, and bone-in meats. Unless you are feeding Whole Prey which is balanced, you'll need to balance your Frankenprey menu. The link above should help with that as well. If you have any questions or concerns, please feel free to ask and we'll help where we can.
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Post by sheresafaye on Jun 7, 2017 0:03:59 GMT -5
Sorry I guess I should have mentioned I'm trying to follow the frankenprey menu lol so I'm not just giving them organs. But they don't really like to eat the rest of anything raw except for the organs. I guess I'll keep trying diff things. Thanks
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Post by LindaM on Jun 7, 2017 0:56:47 GMT -5
You're going to have to work with them to get used to the other meats. I suggest starting with the raw soupie recipe found on here, and then slowly moving onto offering tiny slivers, then bigger, until they accept chunks and then progressing to bone-in. Following the Frankenprey menu, that's 1.5 organ meals.. they cannot eat only one and a half meal for the whole week, so the stubborn fuzzies MUST learn to eat all types of meals.
Depending on their ages, their switch may take time, so you need to be persistent and patient. Kits up until around 7-9 months old are still easy to switch as they're still in the range for imprinting on foods, and will usually easily eat anything thrown at them. After that age range, it becomes work.
There could also be other factors involved, are they still eating kibble? Has all their other meals in the week other than organs been cooked meat? Eventually, this can lead to a nutrition deficiency and other health problems, so it should be corrected as soon as you can. Could you let us know how you've tried to introduce them to raw chicken before? Which methods did you use and/or which if any incentives you tried?
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Post by sheresafaye on Jun 7, 2017 18:21:42 GMT -5
Linda.... they are about 4 months old. I have 2.... Mika and Shadow both girls. I was slowly switching them off kibble.... they r off it completely now. They were eating both raw and cooked foods.... the organ meals were always raw.... the muscle meats were half raw half cooked lol they love steak but im having a hard time getting them to eat raw chicken so I was cooking it but after reading everything i stopped cooking it. I gave them some wings earlier and managed to get them to eat half of one ... i mixed some small bits of steak in since that seems to be their fav. Im going to keep at it adding more and more chicken wings until they are happy eating it. I want my girls both healthy and happy. Thanks for all the wonderful input lol
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Post by LindaM on Jun 7, 2017 19:07:41 GMT -5
Hmm, still kits.. they should be pretty easy to switch overall. But, that doesn't mean they won't try to manipulate you mommy, lol. I'm surprised they like the beef so much.. usually beef is one they like to fuss about at first, since it has a very strong smell and taste compared to chicken or another milder meat like pork or turkey. But if they like the beef, then excellent. Okay, so key points to remember, your weekly menu requires a minimum of 3 different proteins overall, if you can provide more variety, then all the better. So look around when you shop to see what different proteins are easily available to you. If you have an Asian/Ethnic market near you, that would be great, they tend to carry a lot of proteins that work well for the ferrets, and at fractions of the cost elsewhere, such as rabbit, duck, quail, and a variety of organs. Feeding a bone-in meal after doing heart or organ meals will help firm up their poops again, as they tend to go pretty yucky and wet after those particular meals (usually due to the high blood content in those). I believe since yours are still young kits, they will also need the extra bone-in meals on the menu, as calcium is very important for their growth into strong little ferrets. Correct, Heather? And once they're happily eating bone-in meats, they should have a variety of proteins in that as well, so you don't simply feed only chicken. I'm gonna link to the weekly Frankenprey menu again, so you can design your own menu from it. You can link a menu of what the girls eat on here so we can look through it and make sure it is balanced for them. Better yet, you can even start an unofficial transition thread in the Diet Transitions board, which will allow admin, mentors and raw feeders such as myself to pop in and help where we can to make sure your girls are on a healthy, balanced diet and offer advice if you struggle with anything. You can also sign up for a mentor in the mentoring program if you want one to help you with your switch directly, it's highly advised as they will help with stumbling blocks as well as teach you valuable information about raw feeding. Meat, Bone, Organ Weekly Menu PlanDiet Transitions BoardSign Up for the Mentoring Program
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Post by sheresafaye on Jun 7, 2017 22:43:07 GMT -5
Thank you for the tip I will see if theres an ethnic market near me. I readjusted the diet since reading about the importance of raw food only and of course added bone in. Currently i have pork, beef and chicken as the proteins they will eat oh and as a treat i will give them some canned salmon they luv that but now that i know cooked is bad i should probly stop that too huh? Ok so for the daily bone in meals i have chicken wings which i will do till they get used to it then ill try diff bone in meats..... for the nightly muscle meals i have a combination of meats.... i have some chopped steak, some chopped pork loin, and some chicken thigh meat..... for the organ meals i have chicken heart for the heart meal but i am currently working with a butcher to get me in some beef hearts and for the second organ meal for the week i have liver hearts and gizard mixture ..... i need to find someone who carries more organs. I do the heart meal wednesdays and the organ mix meal on saturdays. I have tried to follow what i saw for the menu as closely as I can. I printed it out so I can look at it and showed my butcher who is going to see what organs he can get me lol but im sure he will charge me more so im really hoping I can find an ethnic market like you said. Im very committed to making sure my babies get a healthy diet.
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Post by LindaM on Jun 7, 2017 22:55:33 GMT -5
You can do one fish meal per week, or offer a little as a treat, but not canned salmon as those often contain salt/sodium, or oils. If I give a fishy treat in the week, then I skip the single fish meal, and vice versa.
Okay, so I like to think of heart separately as a meal type by itself, though heart is actually considered a muscle in terms of the menu, but because of it's importance, I just think of the hearts as something by themselves. You need 1.5 meals of this in the week. And for organs, gizzards do not count, they are considered a muscle meal, so you're short on the other organ. I find that kidney is the easiest to find, though at an Asian market I've also found uteri and brains (brains are very rich and must be fed more rarely compared to others). Organs are also 1.5 meals. So the easiest way to do this is a single heart meal, a single organ meal, and then a combined meal of half heart, and half organs (1/4 liver + 1/4 other organ).
If you struggle to find a local market, there are online providers of raw as well. It's best to buy in bulk from them due to shipping costs, and they often have a minimum purchase limit. Hare Today, My Pet Carnivore, and RodentPro are some good ones for online.
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Post by sheresafaye on Jun 7, 2017 23:15:18 GMT -5
Ok so I need to add an organ and another organ meal? I will start the hunt for organs tomorrow so would it be safe to do the heart/liver meal Saturday and the liver + whatever organ I find on Sunday night?
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Post by LindaM on Jun 7, 2017 23:21:47 GMT -5
You need a total of 1.5 organ meals in the week, and 1.5 heart meals = 3 total meals for the week. Your heart meal will be only hearts. Your organ meal must consist of half liver and half of another organ (spleen, kidney, brain, testes, uteri, etc). So when you do the .5 heart meal and .5 organ meal, you end up combining hearts and organs, so it'll be half heart, 1/4 liver, and 1/4 other organ for that meal. Make sense?
I try to space mine out a bit more over the week, but yeah you can do that, offer a bone-in meal after both to help with the poops though.
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Post by sheresafaye on Jun 7, 2017 23:24:12 GMT -5
Yes thx so much!
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Post by sheresafaye on Jun 7, 2017 23:35:10 GMT -5
I just found out the market by me sells kidneys liver and beef hearts according to their online site. so hopefully tomorrow I can get some. Thank you again
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Post by Heather on Jun 7, 2017 23:58:31 GMT -5
Seems you didn't need me at all , but yes of the 14 meals that are spread over the week (2 meals per day)kits or juveniles should be getting closer to the 9 meals of bone in. Watch the stools closely because you don't want to create constipation. If the stools appear very solid or dry then drop one bone meal off the menu. Documenting the foods you're using at this stage of the game is really imperative to keep track of progress, likes and dislikes, gastric responses to the various combinations and proteins ciao
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