Very odd vomiting

[jerkk]

I have a ferret, Sable, who is quite young and has adrenal. For the past year or so she will go through a day about every two months or so where she will start gagging and throwing up a little. The vet has treated her for multiple bacterial infections over this time period. Usually after 15 minutes she's fine. No loss of appetite, lethargy, ect. The only thing I think it could be is ibs. She used to be on ferret digestive support 90 (wysong) but now she's on evo food. Does anybody have any kibble brands they recommend that has odd protiens like beef or salmon?


(I know that kibble isn't the best for them but I have tried switching them before when they were younger but my two ferrets want nothing to do with whole prey. .... I've been thinKing about trying raw again but I'm afraid it might be too expensive)

[katt]

The best thing you can possibly do for diagnosed or suspected IBD/IBS is switch to raw. That is the only way you can have complete control over her food intake. Kibbles have many different ingredients in them. It is unlikely she is reacting to a specific protein in the kibble or she would have more persistent problems rather than just here and there. That said, if she IS you have no way whatsoever of telling which ingredient she is reacting to. What if it's the grain, the corn, an additive...? Raw diet gives you much more control. Additionally, the nutrients in raw are more easily digested and absorbed, which is extra important if there are any gut inflammatory problems like IBS/IBD, AND they will remain better hydrated - which is critical in any ferret, much less an ill one, much less one who is vomiting or has diarrhea (fluid loss) and absorption issues (IBD).

During these episodes have you or your vet ever checked her mouth and throat for ulcers? What are her poops like during the episodes? Is she eating too fast? Have other issues been ruled out such as a cause of coughing that might be causing her to cough until she vomits?


As for raw, it can be quite affordable and is generally more affordable than feeding a high-end kibble. Buying in bulk saves a lot too. Costs vary by region but to give you an idea, I typically spend about $40/mo to feed 2 adult males - and that is including feeding more expensive meats like rabbit and duck. I stock my freezer about once every 3-6 months with meats portioned into meal-sized baggies. All I have to do is grab a bag and dump it in their dish each day - super easy.

As for switching them, you can't expect them to go right for a new food. Ferrets imprint on their food. A ferret raised on kibble has to be taught that raw is edible. Your ferret has NO IDEA that raw meat is food. If I put a bowl of crickets in front of you and said “eat up!” You would think I must be nuts – crickets aren’t food! Yet crickets are a great source of protein and are a staple diet in many countries – we simply haven’t been raised to view crickets as food. Similarly, a ferret imprinted on kibble has to LEARN that raw is not only edible, but delicious.

Teaching them this is a gradual process that takes a lot of patience and persistence. A mentor will help guide you through the process and aid you in overcoming road blocks, as well as help you to feel confident in balancing the diet properly.

For a basic rundown of one method of switching see here: holisticferretforum.com/natural-diet/the-switch/


I would HIGHLY recommend that you sign up for a mentor with our mentoring program (link below). The switch is a gradual process that takes a lot of patience and persistence. All of our mentors are volunteers who go through over a year of training. A mentor will help guide you through the process and aid you in overcoming road blocks, as well as help you to feel confident in balancing the diet properly. holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/61/sign-mentoring-program


While you wait for a mentor, set up a thread in our Diet Transitions board. You will be able to start on your switch and get help from all of our mentors, and other members. holisticferret60.proboards.com/.../diet-transitions

In the meanwhile, please check out our website and all of the stickied threads in the forum. holisticferretforum.com/natural-diet/raw-diet-the-meat-of-the-site/

And some info on IBD in ferrets: holisticferretforum.com/health/irritable-bowel-disease-ibd/

[jerkk]

May 29, 2017 23:49:18 GMT -5 katt said:

The best thing you can possibly do for diagnosed or suspected IBD/IBS is switch to raw. That is the only way you can have complete control over her food intake. Kibbles have many different ingredients in them. It is unlikely she is reacting to a specific protein in the kibble or she would have more persistent problems rather than just here and there. That said, if she IS you have no way whatsoever of telling which ingredient she is reacting to. What if it's the grain, the corn, an additive...? Raw diet gives you much more control. Additionally, the nutrients in raw are more easily digested and absorbed, which is extra important if there are any gut inflammatory problems like IBS/IBD, AND they will remain better hydrated - which is critical in any ferret, much less an ill one, much less one who is vomiting or has diarrhea (fluid loss) and absorption issues (IBD).

During these episodes have you or your vet ever checked her mouth and throat for ulcers? What are her poops like during the episodes? Is she eating too fast? Have other issues been ruled out such as a cause of coughing that might be causing her to cough until she vomits?


As for raw, it can be quite affordable and is generally more affordable than feeding a high-end kibble. Buying in bulk saves a lot too. Costs vary by region but to give you an idea, I typically spend about $40/mo to feed 2 adult males - and that is including feeding more expensive meats like rabbit and duck. I stock my freezer about once every 3-6 months with meats portioned into meal-sized baggies. All I have to do is grab a bag and dump it in their dish each day - super easy.

As for switching them, you can't expect them to go right for a new food. Ferrets imprint on their food. A ferret raised on kibble has to be taught that raw is edible. Your ferret has NO IDEA that raw meat is food. If I put a bowl of crickets in front of you and said “eat up!” You would think I must be nuts – crickets aren’t food! Yet crickets are a great source of protein and are a staple diet in many countries – we simply haven’t been raised to view crickets as food. Similarly, a ferret imprinted on kibble has to LEARN that raw is not only edible, but delicious.

Teaching them this is a gradual process that takes a lot of patience and persistence. A mentor will help guide you through the process and aid you in overcoming road blocks, as well as help you to feel confident in balancing the diet properly.

For a basic rundown of one method of switching see here: holisticferretforum.com/natural-diet/the-switch/


I would HIGHLY recommend that you sign up for a mentor with our mentoring program (link below). The switch is a gradual process that takes a lot of patience and persistence. All of our mentors are volunteers who go through over a year of training. A mentor will help guide you through the process and aid you in overcoming road blocks, as well as help you to feel confident in balancing the diet properly. holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/61/sign-mentoring-program


While you wait for a mentor, set up a thread in our Diet Transitions board. You will be able to start on your switch and get help from all of our mentors, and other members. holisticferret60.proboards.com/.../diet-transitions

In the meanwhile, please check out our website and all of the stickied threads in the forum. holisticferretforum.com/natural-diet/raw-diet-the-meat-of-the-site/

And some info on IBD in ferrets: holisticferretforum.com/health/irritable-bowel-disease-ibd/

thank you so much!! I've actually been looking at pre- ground whole prey that they sell for cats and dogs. I used to feed them raw so they are both used to eating raw meat and I wouldn't have a problem trying to get them to eat the pre-ground food. However I'm willing to grind my own meat to save a bit of money... How many pounds of meat a month do you think they eat? I think buying the preground prey would be a lot more nutritionally sound than just feeding raw. That way I can get the nutrition of whole prey but they'll actually want to eat it... Wish I could've thought of it sooner. I just have to convince my mom that raw is better... again lol. We are just a bit tight on money because of the excessive vet appointments and treatments trying to eliminate problems. She's probably had two x-rays over the course of her life so a good portion of our money is going to that and the adrenal implants.

[katt]

They will get all of the nutrients they need from a properly balanced and varied Frankenprey diet. Grounds and whole prey are both very expensive if you are concerned about costs. Also, grinds do not offer the benefit of cleaning teeth, providing stimulating chewing exercise, and strengthening jaw and neck muscles and health. If you feed grinds you will need to brush teeth at least once a week.

[jerkk]

Jun 1, 2017 18:34:49 GMT -5 katt said:

They will get all of the nutrients they need from a properly balanced and varied Frankenprey diet. Grounds and whole prey are both very expensive if you are concerned about costs. Also, grinds do not offer the benefit of cleaning teeth, providing stimulating chewing exercise, and strengthening jaw and neck muscles and health. If you feed grinds you will need to brush teeth at least once a week.

I brush and descale their teeth myself with a cat dental scraper and cat toothpaste.. So that's not an issue. I have bonemeal I ordered when they were on raw about a year ago. I just dont know what to do at this point besides change her diet (which I'm in the process of doing but I have to convince my vet and my parent because they both think it's ridiculous for a ferret to eat it's natural food. shocker.) she gagged but didn't throw up a few minutes ago but honestly I just want someone to tell me what's wrong with her it's so frustrating... I'll change her food, I have no problem with that. I'm just confused and I usually know what to do and what's wrong but now I don't and it's not what I'm used to.

[katt]

I mean if it's not bothering her in any other way, she's eating and acting fine, not losing weight, no other symptoms, she has been thoroughly worked up with nothing wrong, I wouldn't worry so much. It is possible she's eating too fast - that's not an uncommon cause of vomiting in animals, including ferrets. Whole raw (Frankenprey or whole prey) will slow her down some by forcing her to chew. lol

As for the vets...if they are anti-raw there's not much you can do or say to change their minds. They don't have to approve of it. Frankly, if they are so anti-raw that it will affect their judgement and medical assessment and treatments, I wouldn't even mention diet to them. It's sad, I don't normally advocate anything but full disclosure and communication with medical providers, but some vets become so clouded by their anti-raw ideas that they refuse to see reason. Many of them will jump to blame any health problem on raw - however unrelated it may be. It's basic science...:carnivores eat meat.

[Blue]

I mean if it's not bothering her in any other way, she's eating and acting fine, not losing weight, no other symptoms, she has been thoroughly worked up with nothing wrong, I wouldn't worry so much. It is possible she's eating too fast - that's not an uncommon cause of vomiting in animals, including ferrets.

Agreed, Maisie used to do that every so often and it was either from eating too fast or too much in one go. Also, she likes tepid water and I used to give it to her in the bathroom before breakfast. I stopped when I realized that she was filling up on warm water, and then eating on a full stomach.

[jerkk]

Thanks to everyone who helped out! I have good news, I'll be starting them on raw again after I purchase a meat grinder. I talked to my vet again and he said he was worried about salmonella but after some research I know that I am more at risk for salmonella than them as they are designed to process meat. Thanks again!

[jerkk]

So today I gave them some fish oil in their raw food and both of them started dry heaving later. Usually it's only my smaller jill that has problems with vomiting but since they were both doing it I'm not sure what to think. Both of them are acting normal and what not. I rinsed the meat off through a strainer to try and descale the fish oil a little. They also got a different kind of protein added in this round: beef.
Should I be worried?

[LindaM]

Since you added two new factors, it's a bit harder to say which is the cause. Chances are it was the beef though. Beef has a very strong smell and taste, and it can take ferrets a bit to get used to, it's also usually why one starts the raw switch journey using a mild meat like chicken. While my snooters do eat beef, they definitely have no fondness for it at all. It remains their most hated protein to this day.

[jerkk]

Jul 25, 2017 13:46:41 GMT -5 LindaM said:

Since you added two new factors, it's a bit harder to say which is the cause. Chances are it was the beef though. Beef has a very strong smell and taste, and it can take ferrets a bit to get used to, it's also usually why one starts the raw switch journey using a mild meat like chicken. While my snooters do eat beef, they definitely have no fondness for it at all. It remains their most hated protein to this day.

Hmm ok!! Thanks for letting me know, it probably was the beef as it was a bit bloodier than other meats im used to (I drained it but still) Next time I'll steer clear of it.

[LindaM]

You don't have to avoid it, it's good for ferrets to have a red meat included in their diet, they should have at least one red meat protein to be honest. It will just take them a bit to get used to it, so expect a bit of gagging and annoyed-looking ferrets, lol. Some actually come to love it too (just not mine, but I still feed them beef).

[jerkk]

Jul 25, 2017 14:47:19 GMT -5 LindaM said:

You don't have to avoid it, it's good for ferrets to have a red meat included in their diet, they should have at least one red meat protein to be honest. It will just take them a bit to get used to it, so expect a bit of gagging and annoyed-looking ferrets, lol. Some actually come to love it too (just not mine, but I still feed them beef).

Ok! I am going to mix it with some chicken and pork and slowly increase the amount so it gives them a little time to get used to it. Thanks!