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Post by LindaM on Mar 13, 2017 15:08:14 GMT -5
Sounds like a good plan to me. Since they've only been on the raw for a while now, and since you guys are still trying to figure out better averages, you're fine to continue like that for now, so long as your wallet doesn't mind the waste, haha. There tends to always be a bit of waste anyway, with mine I make sure there's always a little remaining in their bowls at meal changes, to make sure everyone got enough of it. Once you are able to get a better idea of what they are eating consistently, you can slightly decrease on their meals until there's just a few bites to 1oz remaining at meal switches. Since we're rolling into spring, you may see a bit extra weight loss among them as they shed winter weight, and some decreasing in the amount they eat, but I don't think any of that is as prevalent with the babies as with adults. My little Athena (8mo) did lose a little bit from her winter weight, and she's eating somewhat less too, but nothing super drastic. Loki (1yr 8mo) on the other hand dropped about 1lb of weight from the winter and is now at a nice 3lbs. So the spring drop from winter can look at little drastic for some, but is quite normal, just always check that they are still eating and drinking well, poops are good, and that activity levels are good. Something that might be hampering them eating well on other bone-in meals, are that you are offering quite a bit of variety in one meal on some of them. Ferrets WILL pick out their favorites from meals when given the chance. So for example, if they like quail most, and frog's legs some, but not like chicken wings, then those first two will get eaten but the latter mostly ignored. Which is usually why people always say to never mix your meal types especially, but the same can occur with multiple varieties in a single type of meal. If it seems like they are leaving more or less equal amounts of the mixed proteins in their leftovers, then you're fine. But if they are singling out a protein to leave for leftovers, you might need to limit the variety in a single meal for a bit to see if it'll help them get over that. As for their takes on the varieties, they tend to all be different with their own little tastes thrown in too, lol. Both of mine love duck and rabbit for example, and both dislike beef, but only Athena will really eat pork, Loki is less inclined. So far I think you guys are doing great, even on the organs they don't seem too keen on, they're still eating it after all!
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grimtas
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Post by grimtas on Mar 13, 2017 15:25:31 GMT -5
Yes it hurts in the wallet especially getting all the various proteins and finding all the sources for the entire diet. I'm not one to waste normally and try not to but if I wouldn't eat it I don't want to give it to my babies. (I'm fussier then my fuzzies I'm sure ). Now that I have my sources lined up I can plan my grocery shopping accordingly and just portion and freeze for thawing on a weekly basis. Right now they have completely taken over half a freezer and fridge. Correcting that as we speak as I have another freezer on order. I'm trying not to intentionally mix the proteins per meal, but on the same note trying to introduce as many varieties as I can to get them used to eating them. I was starting off small on the varieties to make sure they were eating something, then re-adding the leftovers to the next meal to make sure they all had a chance to try them out. I'm not planning on continuing the mix-n-match long term. Right now it's what ever bag I grab from the fridge during mealtime that matches the feeding requirement, IE frog legs, don't have enough mix in chicken wings etc. This way at least they are getting a good mix of different proteins to get used to. It's partly my fault as I bagged most of the proteins in 9oz portions thinking I would keep going with the soup so by the end of the week it's kind of a grab bag from what's left. This week I think I pulled enough out of the freezer (It takes three days to defrost in my fridge) to get a more consistent protein per meal menu. It will most likely switch proteins AM to PM but I think that is ok.
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Post by LindaM on Mar 13, 2017 15:55:46 GMT -5
Haha, actually, your babies will still eat meats that even smell a little off to you. Ferrets are made to handle bacteria differently than us, but they won't eat something that in their opinion truly went bad. You're doing perfectly fine, and they've actually switched really, really well. Getting them used to as many proteins as possible is always best, especially since they're still kits, now is certainly the best time. And you can continue to mix proteins even after they've gotten used to them, the only times one needs to really be wary of doing that though is when you can see them picking out favorites from their meals, which they will tend to do. It's exactly why mine don't get anything else they like with their beef, since I KNOW they'll leave the beef and just eat around it, the little buggers. The extra freezer on the way will make your life a lot easier.. I wish I had one on the way too. I really need to start looking for one, so I can buy more in bulk than I currently do. Wow, about how long it takes to defrost, I think it takes about 1-2 days in mine, unless I keep it to the back of the fridge, in which case it may just stay mostly frozen for several days. I tend to quickly thaw my meal containers/baggies out in a bowl of luke/warm water in the morning before they eat if I forgot to put anything in the fridge, which still happens more than I'd like to admit.
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Post by Sherry on Mar 14, 2017 10:13:03 GMT -5
It sounds like they are doing quite well I would work at only using the soup to mix heart and organs into(And only use the soup for that), and then phasing that out to pureed heart and organ. On chicken days, give them nothing BUT chicken so they have no other options. Kidney I found I had to mix with something else as well. I still do, but mine are at least at a point where mixing with the liver is enough. Just something you may want to work toward Makes YOUR life easier You can give just the soup alone once every couple of weeks to keep them used to it.
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grimtas
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Post by grimtas on Mar 14, 2017 10:54:48 GMT -5
Thank you all for the recommendations. I have removed soup completely from all meals I'm only using it now for the organ and/or heart meals to get them used to the taste and then only using 3oz of soup for that. The remix of the liver and kidney with the soup yesterday morning netted only 1oz remaining and that was some pureed liver/soup and two pieces of kidney so they did eat the majority of that meal it just took two tries. I'm more stubborn then them I think they will quickly get the idea eat whats given or be hungry to just get the same again. Last night was fun they had a pure chicken wing meal and I got many chuckles watching them run from the food dish to stash under the couch then back to the dish and couch until the bowls were emptied out. This was followed up with much grabbing of each others morsel and running all around the room playing keep away. That little Scamp is sure living up to his namesake he will ignore the dish and take whatever any of the other three are eating then just go stash it and repeat. I had a few hours of laughs watching them all last night. This morning only 2.1oz remained of the chicken wings so I mixed that back in with this mornings breakfast of yet more chicken wings plus 1/2 their weekly allotment of eggs. Question now that spring has spring should I double the egg intake to 8 eggs weekly? I'm trying to separate the days I give them egg so they don't get it all in one dose. I'm also adding a few drops of salmon oil to some of their meals on a schedule to get them used to the taste. I really need to figure out some sort of treats to give them, I have tried worms and while they love to play tug-o-war with them they are IMO messier than anything else I feed them. Thoughts/Advice on treats? I think that will help with the roaming litter box training greatly. Fuzzbutts eating from their stash:
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Post by LindaM on Mar 14, 2017 11:32:48 GMT -5
Sounds like things are going great! And yeah.. once they find that no other option is provided on a meal they do eat, but not necessarily like, they will usually end up putting on their big boy pants and eat it in the end.
As for the eggs, since you have 4 fuzzballs, yes, you can up to 8 eggs now during the shedding season. But I would keep an eye on it to see that each gets more or less the right amount, since some are piggies about eggs. I know I have to check Athena when mine get their eggs, since she eats faster than Loki and will then try and make a break for his, it's the only time mine will ever try to share a bowl. And yeah, you can totally give the eggs over a course of days, just keep the remainders in a container in the fridge, or mix up less at a time.
They don't necessarily need treats, praise and special playtime can work too. But I do give mine treats for various reasons, and I did use it in potty training for a while at first. I tend to go the route of Freeze-Dried Raw for treats. I use PureBites (be wary of the liver selections, too much liver can cause a Vitamin A overdose), Orijen, Vital Essentials, and NV Instinct. I've also seen Whole Life and Cat-Man-Doo's Life Essentials in the stores, which are single protein source but I believe these are just Freeze-Dried, with meat likely having been steamed first. Sojos' Simply is another option I've seen, I've been wanting to try their goat one actually. If you have the choice, stick with the FDR ones.
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Post by Sherry on Mar 15, 2017 10:07:19 GMT -5
They(and YOU) are doing really well Yes, if they have started shedding increase to 8 eggs for the 4 of them for the next month then cut back again as hopefully all will be over the bulk of their shed. For treats I use either oil, or Orijen FD treats.
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grimtas
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Post by grimtas on Mar 16, 2017 9:46:57 GMT -5
Thank you for the information on the FDR, I didn't connect the "Freeze Dried Raw" to FDR . I'll check around my local pet stores to see what I can find, If I'm not happy with what they offer ingredient wise I'll see what I can order online. Not much to report on the eating side of things, energy is still high and we all have lots of fun during the two hour play sessions in the AM and as long as they want in the PM. I don't make them go to bed until at least three of them find a spot to go to sleep in the evenings. It makes for some late nights sometimes. The poops seem normal from the poop chart on this site. Over the last week each had one very loose stool but it was only a single occurrence so I was not overly concerned. I still need to make an appointment for their wellness checkup with the vet and discuss whether or not to vaccinate. As I also have two dogs and a cat I may just get the Destemper one final time. Rabies is not common in my area and they will not be exposed to anything they could potentially contract rabies. I've doubled the egg amounts I'm providing now and monitoring whom is eating and how much. I separated them this morning and gave each an egg individually. All four ate ~1/2 an egg then went off to play. I think they are all eating a sufficient amount. I'll give them the rest of their eggs tonight when I have more time to monitor them. Wednesday Weights: Mischief: 2Lbs 10.7Oz (-1.93Oz Wk over Wk) Mayhem: 2Lbs 14.05Oz (-.45Oz Wk over Wk) Havoc: 2Lbs 9.3Oz (+3.3Oz Wk over Wk) Scamp: 2Lbs 12.5Oz (+4.2Oz Wk over Wk) Havoc and Scamp came into the home IMO very under weight, you could visibly see their pelvis bones. I think Scamp is going to be the biggest of all of them he's a little bruiser and a big piggy steals everyone elses food. His appearance is really bulking up and feels more meatier then when he arrived, you can barely see his pelvis bones now so I'm pleased. Havoc on the other hand I would swear he is ADD/ADHD, he has a very high metabolism. While I can still see his pelvic bones it is very slight now and his appearance is a lot less scrawny.
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Post by Sherry on Mar 16, 2017 9:52:44 GMT -5
They are doing well Keep in mind some ferrets are naturally very thin. Think whippet as compared to bulldog.
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Post by LindaM on Mar 16, 2017 12:54:14 GMT -5
The good FDR treats will usually be single ingredient, single sourced protein, or like Orijen with multiple proteins but still all animal ingredients, no veggies or fruits and whatnot. I use NV Instinct's RawBoost Mixers FDR treats much more rarely because of the fact that they include some indigestible ingredients compared to the other brands I use. You'll want to check smaller, local pet shops, ignore PetSmart and Petco, they won't offer the good stuff, just a few of the Purebites and NV Instinct. If you wanna try Orijen or VE, check their websites for stores near you that sell their products. I get all my FDR & Frozen Commercial goods from a little private-owned pet store all the way into Salt Lake City, over an hour's drive away from me, simply because it's more worth it. As for everything else, you guys are doing wonderful! Random odd poops do tend to happen every once in a while, as long as it doesn't persist, it's usually all good. Oh, and eggs can give some funky poops too, sometimes it really just ends up coming out looking just like it did going in, LOL. And Sherry is right, some ferrets are simply thinner or even just built smaller than others. Some days I still wonder about little Athena, she's just under 2lbs, but she's a wee little thing, if she didn't have such a high energy level or such a puffy, fluffy coat that adds to her size, or can hold her own marvelously against Loki and the cat, I'd probably be pulling my hair out over worrying about her all the time. But she definitely gets size and speed advantage when it comes to playtime, hiding and chases.
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grimtas
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Post by grimtas on Mar 22, 2017 10:42:18 GMT -5
Sorry I've been very busy this last weekend as I'm moving things out of my home in preparation for putting my home on the market in the next few weeks. We are building a new custom home so in the end the fuzzies will have a very very nice new play area in the basement which will help to keep them cooler year round. Eating/Playing/Poops have all been fine the last several days. They are eating me out of house and home but I'm ok with that as I know they are on a much much better diet now. My new Freezer arrived yesterday so I'll be making good use of that very soon, to hopefully do bulk purchases for their staples. I also received the Crock-N-Locks so I've removed the water bottles from their cage. I also ordered and received yesterday the Kritter Koncepts Litter trays for the Ferret Nation cage. I love them already as do the fuzzies.
They are so spoiled... And Well Loved...
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Post by LindaM on Mar 22, 2017 15:55:17 GMT -5
You're fine, don't worry about it. Packing and moving are all hellish jobs, so I totally get you. But hey, new custom home, that's gonna be great! Sounds like the boys are all doing good then. I'm sure they're gonna love having that new play area all to themselves when you guys get that done. Such happy, loved and spoiled babies. I actually got out and got a smaller 7cu ft chest freezer myself, last week. My fuzzbutts can now have more of their favorite duck and rabbit stored in there, and I can move all their stuff out of my freezer entirely, yay!
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Post by Sherry on Mar 23, 2017 10:16:01 GMT -5
You'll find their appetites will drop off sharply soon, so don't be too stressed if you think they have stopped eating and are getting sick Once on full raw they eat about twice the amount they finally settle to(kind of like they are making up for nutrients they missed out on with kibble). Combine that with summer appetites coming and it is shocking.
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grimtas
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Post by grimtas on Mar 23, 2017 11:17:57 GMT -5
I've already seen a bit of a drop off with their intake some days they have left several ounces of the 12 provided per meal and this occurred three times in a row. It didn't matter if it was bone-in, muscle, or organ. I recycled what I could to the next meal time until I thought things were bad and threw out the remainder. They are still being stubborn on their heart and organ meals leaving roughly 4-6 ounces behind on those meals. I toss the heart and organs and feed the remaining amount for the very next meal supplemented with what ever is next on the menu (IE Bone-In / Muscle) The get the point the second time around and it's usually all gone with the partial bone-in / muscle.
I have the new freezer 7CF as well. I'll be moving it to our temporary accommodations this weekend to transfer all the stock I currently have in the main freezer. The fuzzies and I will also be leaving our home this weekend for the temporary accommodations so I can complete the final clean and staging of our existing home. Then it's off to figure out what land and what house to build. I do plan on adding a room in the basement just for the fuzzies enjoyment and with a covered walk-out basement they will have the opportunity for some outside protected play as well. I'm absolutely nutz for planning a fuzzie room and play area into our new home but why the heck not. This is going to be my last home and retirement home so might as well in my mind..
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Post by Sherry on Mar 24, 2017 10:07:21 GMT -5
Not nuts at all I'd love to be able to do that! And I'd start downsizing their meals accordingly for less waste. Come autumn appetites will start picking up again.
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