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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2017 13:46:31 GMT -5
Yay! That is awesome they are eating grinds without soup! Good job. Those amounts are in normal ranges for them too, females usually eat 1 to 3 oz and males eat 2 to 6 approximately. you are not doing it wrong at all, this is fantastic. And those are good weights for them as well, everything seems to be in good normal ranges! Yay! Kibble fight is done and your ferrets are eating RAW!!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2017 13:48:21 GMT -5
I always have soup frozen on hand just in case one of them gets sick and you need to syringe feed them, as well as if I find a new protein I will pour a little soup over it to mask the new meat the first time. Keeping them use to soup and occasionally giving it to them with their meal is a good thing further down the road
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Post by LindaM on Feb 2, 2017 13:55:05 GMT -5
@hugs Congrats! You and your little ones are doing amazing! So glad they're taking to the raw grinds without need for soup now. Yay!
Like Tess said, keep some soup on hand in the freezer just case anyone needs some because they don't want to eat when feeling ill, or to use that as lure on new proteins, it definitely helps.
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Post by Sherry on Feb 3, 2017 10:49:50 GMT -5
So glad hubby is finally seeing sense . You will notice some weight loss at first. But now the kibble is gone expect a massive appetite surge for a couple weeks to a month. It isn't uncommon for them to eat about double of what they will finally settle to
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2017 10:36:13 GMT -5
Yesterday was a shopping day, which takes me out of town, so was rather busy and didn't have time to log in. Ran out to pick-up take out for dinner and while I was waiting for our order to be ready I received a photo text from my husband of Brandi eating kibble! While I was gone he decided that she is just too thin and needs the kibble to gain weight. The argument that took place upon my return home was not a pretty one. I see both being given kibble for meals while I travel at the end of the month. This does not make me happy at all. I let him know how displeased I am that he did this. I am sure our neighbors all heard the choice names I called him during our heated discussion! I thought he was "getting" it. I am beyond angry; I'm at my wits end. I just know that kibble will be left down all the time from the time I leave to the time I return. I also know, after 33 years of marriage and 37 of being together, it will not matter what I say to him or what I can show him in documentation he will do what he wants because that is who and how he is. So, I will continue to pick up kibble (if I dispose of what I have he will only go buy something which will be worse than what they have, our local stores sell only cheap cat and dog foods so I ordered on line) and feed raw while I am here. I will leave written instruction on raw when I leave and pray that he follow it. I will ask that he pick the kibble up during the day and only put it down in the night, as I was doing a few days back, but not being here I will not know if the instruction is followed. It just isn't worth the stress of huge arguments when I know I'm leaving; stress for all of us - me, Monster, and Brandi. With all of that, Brandi would not eat grind this morning. She simply refused. I took her into my lap and she struggled to get away and turned her head each time I tried to bring it to her mouth. A soup cube is now thawing. Monster is showing signs of rebellion as well. Not sure if he's gotten a taste of the kibble that he was showing no interest in, or if he's not happy about Brandi being in my lap for a meal, but he's not eating now either. I am pulling my hair out W. T. F. ??!! Finding myself wondering if I jumped the gun and should have waited until March to begin trying the transition, but then I think they have been doing so well and getting a taste of the "good stuff" so it can't be all that bad... Feeling frustrated, a bit defeated, and a lot angry at my other half.
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Post by Sherry on Feb 4, 2017 12:03:55 GMT -5
The carbs in the kibble are addictive, so they are reacting to that I cannot believe he undercut you like that. I hate to say it but the only thing that *might* change his mind is having a ferret with insulinoma
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Post by LindaM on Feb 4, 2017 14:01:52 GMT -5
If that was my hubby, he'd have gotten a downright slap with the heated discussion to boot. How could he do that to you, and the ferrets!? You guys were making such amazing progress too. And now he's just going to undo all the hard work you put into this for no reason. I'm so sorry that's happened.
And if his only reasoning is that she's too thin, well, ferrets gain weight better on raw than the kibble, at least in my experience. Athena could fit through the eye of a needle at first.. but a raw diet has made her much better.
Have you shown him the videos of ferrets dealing with an insulinoma seizure? Heartbreaking. I showed it to my husband just once and asked him if he'd like to see our babies like that right before they die. Kibble was never again an argument in our household, and the ferrets have since been off kibble entirely instead of just partially (they still had it as a snack during the day if anyone was hungry). He doesn't even blink to spend money on buying frankenprey and the easily $100 a month on Stella & Chewys too. The furkids come first.
I really hope he will change his mind by some miracle. You and the ferrets have worked so hard on this. Stay strong and hang in there!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2017 14:30:58 GMT -5
I am so sorry he did that to you and your ferrets. I was also going to ask if he has watched the screaming seizure video, it might help impact him if he imagines it happening to one of yours. Then he might really realize the impact the kibble is having on your floofs. Don't be discouraged and don't be too hard on yourself. I'm sorry this has happened, but we can get them back on track.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2017 10:25:39 GMT -5
Sherry, I hate it too. I hope neither of mine ever have to deal with any illnesses, but you may be right. I am very frustrated with him as I really did believe he was hearing what I've been telling him. He argued that I bought the kibbles I have because they are good ones. Yes. I did. They are the better kibbles, but that was done before I gained the additional knowledge I now have. I'm still learning! All I can do at this point is continue what I'm doing with kibble being picked up as soon as I get up in the morning, encouraging the raw meals during the day, and only putting kibble down at bedtime IF he notices. If he doesn't say anything at bedtime I will not put it down. LindaM, I would never raise my hand to my husband! As angry as he may make me, that will not solve anything. I will continue to attempt educating him with all that I learn. It is unfortunate he was raised by those he was, and is the man he is today despite it, as they are not good people. I am grateful he is not rejecting raw entirely - that is what his family would do simply because I am saying it is best for them. LindaM & @tessvictoria, I did show him the video of the seizing ferret. It made him very sad, but he is not convincing it is a result of a kibble diet. He DOES love our ferrets. When Brandi was double vaccinated and having a reaction, he was in tears. It is going to take me more time than I thought to show him I am not just listening to a bunch of "know it alls" and am truly doing what is in the best interest of the ferrets. I will continue on and then when I'm done with traveling at the beginning of March will hit it full force; I won't need him to care for them. On another note, Monster tried a bit of rabbit this morning. He was less than thrilled, but I mixed in a bit of chicken and he has eaten a bit of it. Trying to introduce more proteins... I am going to run out of the chicken grinds and wonder - if I have the local butcher take a whole chicken, meant for human consumption, and grind it up for me how much liver and heart should I have him add to that grind? Let's saw the chicken will be approximately 7 pounds. Since I know Monster will eat the chicken I would like to be sure there is plenty for use while I am away. I don't want to place another order with HTGT until I have used some of the other grinds I received already; pheasant, duck, rabbit, quail, mutton, pork, and beef. Thanks! Aftershock, just wanted to say - I've missed you!
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Post by Sherry on Feb 5, 2017 11:52:47 GMT -5
7lbs is 112 oz. 10% of that is 11.2. So you would add 10% heart, and either 10% liver(or preferably 5% liver 5% other organ).
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Post by LindaM on Feb 5, 2017 16:24:14 GMT -5
Do you think showing him documentation, agreed to by a vet, that a high-carbohydrate (usually kibble) diet has a good chance of leading to insulinoma, could help? While there may be no definitive proof yet in most people's eyes, there are enough things online too that will suggest it, as any high-carb diet for a ferret puts a lot of stress on their pancreas.
And you can try to argue with him that the high-quality kibble is like having an unhealthy, but home-cooked meal, yes it's better than getting fast food (low quality kibble), but it's still not the same as a healthy home-cooked meal (raw). There's varying levels of how good something is. High-quality kibble is definitely better than the low quality ones, but it's still just not as good as raw, and that's why you want to do raw instead, because you want the ABSOLUTE best for your ferrets that they can have. They didn't get kibble in the wild, they got meat. I hope that as time goes on you will be able to show him the benefits of what the raw is doing in their diets; happy, healthy and energetic ferrets with beautiful coats who smell nice, and less poops that also don't stink as much. Maybe if he can see how much good it does for them, he will change his mind.
I'm glad that Monster is willing to try some raw again. Using a protein they are used to is a good way to get them to try out a new protein. I've found that after my two have first tried duck and rabbit, that those have become their absolute favorite proteins. They will hound you in the kitchen when they know you're doing either of those. Athena will lie on her back by my feet and begin chewing on my big toe and Loki just sits there and stares at me unwaveringly. They get very impatient when I take too long to hand over those two proteins.
Any luck with Brandi eating a bit of raw again or is she still kicking up a fuss about it?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2017 16:44:27 GMT -5
Sounds like you've got a game plan for the time being! Let him put the kibble down if he notices.. Jjust hope he doesn't try this again when you're back from you trip It shows he loves them, he's just not in the right frame of mind, he thinks what he is doing is helping them instead of hurting.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2017 12:25:32 GMT -5
Sherry , Thank You! Need to run to the local market this afternoon so plan on a chat with the butcher. LindaM , I am working on him. @tessvictoria , You are absolutely correct. He does truly believe he is doing what is best for them. Yesterday was a great day for meals! Monster took in about 100 grams, Brandi about 52!!! Kibbles were picked up all day, but set down at about 9pm last night. I woke hearing Brandi come out of her bucket bed (she has to come down a tube/tunnel to get to the floor & I heard her), snatched her up before she could get to the kibble, and took her to the dining room for chicken! Phew! This morning has gone well too. Monster has eaten about 40 grams, Brandi about 20 (she's visited the dining station twice). Monster refused to eat yesterday morning until I added a bit of the soup to his grinds. A minor set back that we'll be working on. Brandi has only a very small amount of grinds added to her soup. While I get frustrated with my husband, I feel we're doing good and I'm proud of my two.
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Post by LindaM on Feb 6, 2017 14:44:04 GMT -5
You are definitely doing good with your two, I'm glad that they're eating the raw again, even if you have to add a bit of soup to it, it's still raw and thus still progress. You're doing great, keep it up.
You might even get to a stage where they'd refuse the kibble in place of raw even if it is put down for them. Since my ferrets are the only ones to eat raw and we're still working on my cat, he's had kibble mix out at times when he didn't want his wet food, but Athena would walk over to it, give it a little sniff and instead grab a chunk of raw meat from the plate next to it to eat. Since she got fully into raw and I stopped letting them have kibble in the day, she's entirely stopped eating kibble. She'll only eat raw, rehydrated FDR and FDR treats now. Same for Loki.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2017 16:28:15 GMT -5
Those are EXCELLENT intake levels for yesterday! Hopefully today continues as smoothly!
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